380 replies to this topic

[waterbaby149]

In 1942 the citizens of Folsom worked together as a community to build the 1st park in Folsom - Folsom City Lions Park - thereafter the park was donated to the city of folsom for safekeeping
In 1967 a young man who enjoyed playing baseball and chasing his dog was killed in Vietnam - that young man came from, at that time, this small community. This community saddened by their loss - built a ball field in honor of this young man - Marshall Farley Field
Today in this now overgrowing community - of disconcern and transplants from the concrete jungle - there is a call to destroy this beautiful historic park and build a "space ship" in the middle of it
Those claiming this is centrally located -made that claim about the firestation in order to purchase land from Mayor Micklos and build a "more centrally located firestation"
and now it is claimed that Folsom City Lions Park is the "only city owned land" in Folsom .....
and how will this story end
w/the destruction of a beautiful old park w/grown trees and a dedication to our past
or w/the concrete seekers paving over more green area and ground -again
Hopefully not -

[Ahnold]

No, Waterbaby, I don't even know who Candy Apple is beyond this forum. I'm just another one of the 48,000 residents of this city who DID NOT sign that petition of yours, recognizing that this is a wonderful site for a library and will also take appropriate steps to honor Mr. Farley's memory and service. Good luck with your ballot initiative and I look forward to seeing you at the ribbon cutting for the new library!

[waterbaby149]

It is sad that u people are so disrespectful of our fallen
and no I will not be at the ribbon cutting cermony
but I may be one of those tied to a tree when they come to cut down all of those beautiful trees
or I may be that person running for cc
because unlike u Arnold - and that is not meant in disrespect to our governor
I take a stand and actually follow my heart
I was raised in Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Cupertino, and Almaden Valley and saw the concrete jungle
I moved here over 15 years ago to "escape" that
and u cannot tell me that the park is the only available land that the city has
there are numerous cities that take old buildings, remodel them and use them again and again
why take a beautiful park, pull out the trees, pull out the vegatation and put concrete on it or as the telegraph called it a spaceship....
I guess we shall see on Tuesday
and oh by the way also on Tuesday July 27 at the cc meeting
I understand that the cc is going to give yet another award to a veteran
the paternozation is sicking by the cc
like I said before a grand jury investigation may be in order

[Candy Apple]

Bring it on!!!!!!!

[pampChefLady]

QUOTE (forumreader @ Jul 15 2004, 03:08 PM)

Additionally, some citizens have voiced concern about traffic on Natoma with respect to a new library in the park. Imagine, hypothetically, bringing your child to a library on the corner of Blue Ravine and Prairie City on a weekday after school in the midst of commute traffic. (No better than a similar scenario on Natoma St.)

The traffic at Blue Ravine and Prairie City is NOTHING like that on Natoma St, and I wouldn't have any issue taking my child there. It's not like they're going to play in the street or anything. I would be able to get in and out in a reasonable amount of time and not worry about sitting in the commute traffic - it'll only get worse on Natoma as they add more homes in the Parkway and EDH.

Is that the best response to this concern?

For my personal education, can anyone tell me what other sites/properties were considered and why they were rejected?

[billsfan]

The traffic on Natoma street near City Hall only appears to bad for the 2 90 minute commute periods. I have driven to the Zoo and City Hall at many different times of the day and generally have seen very few cars. Even at 6:00 in the evening (a common time peope would be going to the library) the traffic was non existent. Maybe I'm just lucky...

I think the traffic on Natoma will get even better when the new dam road is built. That will divert all the traffic over the new bridge for both parts of the rush hour commutes.

While Blue Ravine/Praire City intersection does not have the traffic jams at rush hour, it does get constant traffic and more at rush hour. I would also think that because there is constant traffic in both directions, it's likely to be a more dangerous area than Natoma...

[Ahnold]

PampChefLady - Blue Ravine and Prairie City both carry around 20,000 cars a day at speeds around 45-55 MPH, whereas Natoma Street barely gets over 10,000 cars a day at speeds around 30 MPH. Natoma gets very congested around the park site from about 3 pm until after 6 pm, but that doesnt necessarily make it more dangerous for pedestrians because the traffic would be moving much slower. So I guess you're right - traffic on blue ravine IS nothing like it is on Natoma!! I do agree with you that I would like to see more information on what other sites were looked at and why they were rejected; the only one I know for sure is the city hall fire station and I agree with rejecting that site - in fact that was the only reason I got involved in this discussion before Waterbaby started shooting off personal attacks and distorted facts about this whole matter.

Waterbaby, I happen to think the park is a good location for this library, and I respect the fact that there are folks that have opposition to that site. GrandpaBabe, Mr. May, and most of the other folks trying to protect the ball field do so with dignity and courtesy. And I have NEVER said anything disrespectful of our fallen veterans, nor has anyone else that favors this library site. How incredibly offensive of you to even suggest that. And I have taken a stand, Waterbaby - my stand is that I think the library would be a nice addition to this park, and it is also my stand that as long as you choose to support your argument by spreading your half-truths and mud-slinging, I'll stick around here to counter your BS.

If someone finds a better location for this library, then I'd love to talk about that instead of firing shots back and forth at each other.

[forumreader]

Waterbaby: Please, let's try to keep this exchange of ideas civil.

I happen to agree with Ahnold about the proposed location of the library. What I am confused about, and a little distressed by, is the issue of respect for our fallen veterans. A baseball field is a nice memorial to Mr. Farley. The main branch of a public library would be an even better memorial. Isn't a library a place where, among other things, we preserve written record and memories of people who have gone before us? Isn't it a place where we go to learn about historical events, such as the war in which Mr. Farley sacrificed his life for his country? -- A library seems to be a fitting memorial to any veteran. I thought Mr. Farley's family agreed.

It is very distressing to hear it suggested that those who endorse the currently proposed location for the library are somehow disrespectful of the enormous contributions and sacrifices which Mr. Farley and other veterans have made. I'm a little shocked to hear that some consider our City Council's awards to veterans to be insincere or patronizing. Are the new street signs with stars for fallen vets. also patronizing? (I think they look impressive!)

I can understand some of the other concerns about the library cost or location, but I most respectfully state that I don't understand the veteran argument.

[pampChefLady]

QUOTE (Ahnold @ Jul 16 2004, 09:29 AM)

PampChefLady - Blue Ravine and Prairie City both carry around 20,000 cars a day at speeds around 45-55 MPH, whereas Natoma Street barely gets over 10,000 cars a day at speeds around 30 MPH. Natoma gets very congested around the park site from about 3 pm until after 6 pm, but that doesnt necessarily make it more dangerous for pedestrians because the traffic would be moving much slower. So I guess you're right - traffic on blue ravine IS nothing like it is on Natoma!!

Wow, that's all very interesting. I'm just going on my personal experiences. I get around most of Folsom with very little wait time. And you're right, once on Natoma, it moves along ok. However, coming from south of town, getting TO Natoma is a royal pain!! Do I sit and wait on Riley, do I cut through someone's neighborhood, or do I, as most often I choose, skip it and just go someplace else??? That's my point, why build in an area where people's perceptions are that it's a pain to drive there? If I were a business, I certainly wouldn't build over there. I know I'm not the only one - all of Folsom gripes about the traffic in that area. Will it get better in 5 or 10 years? Maybe, but isn't there any better plan that we don't have to wait that long for? As for "safety," how many kids are going to walk to the library? WE all know that kids are pretty much driven everywhere, so who cares what the speed is outside the library?

Here's an idea. In Phoenix, we lived in an area with a nice mall. Apparently the city was smart enough to have the developer devote a fairly small but reasonable piece of that land to the branch library. Parking was accomodated by the mall parking, and everyone was happy. Not that I know of any details in this case or others, but it seems that in general, California towns give up too much to developers and require little in return.

So, again, how did the decision-makers come to decide on that property? Show me that it's the best option, and I'll support it 100%.

[waterbaby149]

ARnold - u have been repeatedly offensive
and for you to say that Friends of the Library, cc members and others have been polite is a crock
I have been on the receiving end of these comments and watched Roberta Ward follow our people around calling us liars, had Betty Maham aka as Candy Apple slander us in the Folsom Telegraph and it has gone on and on

When collecting signatures we have turned the other cheek - now is the time for education of the citizens of Folsom -

you have the right to your opinion as I do to mine - and I will state it

I have listened to tapes of the Library Commission (which by the way the library refused to release and had to be obtained from the City Clerk at a cost of $5.00 each); have attended cc meetings and public works commission meetings - to listen to Ernie Sheldon make unverified remarks, to have meetings w/cc members and listen to their opinions and have ours not listened to or respected
and the list goes on
the anger that has vented from Friends of the Library, the library commission etc. is unnecessary - and who is paying for those big ads in the BEE - u and me???? I object to that
I also object to the sophrotomist taking a side w/this issue
there were attacks on the VFW and the Lions because of their involvement
based upon them being not for profit organizations - doesn't that shoe fit elsewhere
this situation is just heating up
so don't tell me that you are offended -
that is a crock

[longgone]

I find it interesting that some posters speak frequently about "listening to Library Commission tapes".

However, no one has mentioned anything about attending any of of the LC meetings to voice any complaints, which are open to the public.

There, you can get everything that is said immediately, voice complaints, and do not have to pay to listen to the tapes. Why not?

[waterbaby149]

really
try walking up inocently to a picture of the proposed library
w/ a save farley field t shirt on
u get screamed and yelled at

oh ya I am going to go to a library commission meeting

and u might want to consider that karen forester attended lc meetings and was vocal
and she was and has been treated oh so nicely

[ducky]

To address longgone's comment, realistically, residents can't and shouldn't have to attend every park, library, planning, etc. commission meeting in order to have a voice in this community, especially since some of these meetings occur simultaneously. Some residents did try to attend a library meeting to voice objections but were told the library commission had marching orders and that there would be absolutely no further discussion of the site change. On one of the library commission tapes a gentleman did voice objection to the commission's plan to use $2.2 million to build a joint-use library and felt they would be better off using that $2.2 million to find a centrally located site to build one main library instead of having to staff two libraries, one of which (Empire Ranch) would in all likelihood be used by only 30 percent of the population. Remember folks, the school only staffs and provides janitorial during school hours. We pick up the rest of the cost, which for janitorial probably means all the cost with the school budget problems. The gentleman at the library commission meeting that voiced is opinion was met with guffaws of laughter. Hardly makes me feel like attending one of these meetings would be a productive use of my time.


Most residents got their information about the new library from the sign posted in front of the Fire Station on Natoma proclaiming it as the new library site. The sign remained there three or so months after the decision had been made to change to the park site. To this day I still have residents say, "What happened to the fire station site? That was a good place for the library." So really I would say 95 percent of the population had no advance warning that a change in site had occurred. In fact, the June 4 special meeting of the library commission that was held right before the council made their decision was held in a different location than usual and my understanding the audience of one was Andy Morin, and when the vote was cast to drop pursuing the state bond money it was held upstairs at city hall. A resident would have to have been a pretty good detective to have attended.

Candyapple, you criticize us for not accepting the council's discretion and judgment in this matter and yet you were willing to collect signatures for another ballot measure, were you not? You keep saying we don't say where the library will be built if not in the park and ignore repeatedly that we prefer the original site at the vacant fire station. As for the Arts & Cultural group, I noticed many residents are saying they would like to see a performing arts center when development begins south of 50. And why couldn't the current library site on Persifer not be refurbished and turned into a senior center with redevelopment money instead of being sold?

As for library commissioners that saw fit to yell at and harrass petition gatherers in the park, you are in violation of the Folsom Municipal Code and your conduct was despicable and backfired terribly because people chased us down to sign after they saw your behavior.

[waterbaby149]

Thanks and congratulations to one and all who support the Save the Park Petition. The Petitions were delivered this am to the Folsom City Clerk.

Thank you for all your support and hard work!!!!

[Farley]

I am really happy to see that we get to vote on the Nov. ballot about the location of the new library. I am sorry I did not get to sign the petition, for I surely would have. I said at the beginning of this thread some months back that I thought it was a terrible location for the library. The area around City Hall is too congested with little tiny streets. We have so much space in Folsom, why try to crowd everything on to Natoma Street.

My vote goes to build the library some where else than the park with the Farley memorial.