537 replies to this topic

[K Rat]

  we find the snobbery and discrimination growing as fast as the city.

Hmmm, let's see. Muslims are responsible for the vast majority of terrorism around the world, and because we are concerned about a mosque here, we're snobs? Boy, do you have your head in the sand or what?

[Farley]

Hmmm, let's see. Muslims are responsible for the vast majority of terrorism around the world, and because we are concerned about a mosque here, we're snobs? Boy, do you have your head in the sand or what?

Perhaps you did not read the entire THREAD already in this forum about "Snobs in Folsom" and perhaps you are not in a minority discriminated against.

[bordercolliefan]

The mosque will be built in Folsom. Muslims, like all Americans and immigrants, have a right to worship here.

Perhaps a more productive line of discussion is to identify the questions we hope the mosque leaders will address in their meetings with the public.

Here's a few for starters. Hopefully the City Council has already asked some or all of these questions.

1. What is the projected maximum enrollment of the elementary school? Has the City Council put a cap on it, in view of traffic concerns?

2. What are the start/end times for the school?

3. Where will the pick-up/drop-off area be for students? Will cars simply stop/ line up along Sibley?

4. What is the projected effect of the school on traffic along Blue Ravine/Sibley (already congested between 2:30-4:30 pm)?

5. The widely circulated drawing of the mosque seems incomplete since it does not reflect the grading of the lot, nor any driveways or parking areas. Can we please see an accurate drawing or scale model of the proposed lay-out?

6. What school of Islamic thought will be preached at the mosque? A more conservative or more reform-minded type? How will imams or preachers be selected?

7. Will services at the mosque be open to the public?

8. Will women be segregated from men?

9. What involvement, if any, do mosque leaders plan to have with other religious leaders and with the community?

10. What steps, if any, does the mosque plan to take to ensure that it will not have radical or extremist members?

11. What will be the nature of the school's curriculum? What will students be taught concerning democracy, civil rights (including women's equality), American history, and the current conflicts with Iraq and Afghanistan?

12. Who will be teaching at the school? What qualifications will they have?

13. The Bee mentioned "private" sources of funding for the mosque in addition to the contributions of mosque members. What are these "private" sources of funding?

Many of these questions should be asked of any group planning to build a school at that site. Some are specific to the fact that it is a Muslim group. As residents, we may have no "right" to have answers to these questions; in some ways, they are uncomfortable questions to ask because in America, we like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Still, the Islamic Society will be holding meetings with the community in good faith to answer questions and to address fears and concerns. Hopefully, they will be willing to answer these and other questions that residents may have.

[FolsomJunior00]

Let me ask something...are people angry over the Mosque because of terrorism or because of how its going to look and how its going to affect the city? im curious on that one

[uberman]

Let me ask something...are people angry over the Mosque because of terrorism or because of how its going to look and how its going to affect the city? im curious on that one

I think it's a little bit of both. Good to see you still care about the happenings of Folsom, you SunDevil

[tessieca]

Why is it that anyone who raises any concerns whatsoever is labeled a "wacko" who "should be ashamed"??

Yes, everyone should be able to practice their religion in America; that's part of our foundation.

But, it is not unreasonable to have concern that a facility like the one planned will attract others to town whose idea of practicing religion is to further a jihad and kill Americans wherever they live.

Whether the number of those in agreement with the "kill all Americans" principle is BCF's 1% or Costco's 2%, that is too many to feel comfortable just welcoming the group with open arms.

If I start a new religion for which human, child sacrifices are considered holy, would you support my right to open a facility and worship the way I choose? After all, 98% of my church members wouldn't sacrifice the children, only 1-2%!

[uberman]

If I start a new religion for which human, child sacrifices are considered holy, would you support my right to open a facility and worship the way I choose?  After all, 98% of my church members wouldn't sacrifice the children, only 1-2%!

But your religion calls for it. the 1-2% are the GOOD kind according to your religion. In Islam the 1-2% are the crazy wackos who aren't interpreting the Qúran properly.

Besides, this Jihad which you mention is practiced not by a religious group, but rather an ethnic group. It's pretty safe to say that the "muslims," in our area aren't usually of Arab descent, the leader of the organization is of Indian descent, not Arab. India has suffered long and hard from islamic terrorism, moreso than the United States, Indian muslims know full well what the Qúran really says.

While growing up in India, one inevitably learns — no matter what religion you're born into — that you should live by Hindu and Buddhist principles, peace and forgiveness and all that...

[CostcoLover]

Since we're asking questions.....

What steps, if any, the Christian/Catholic/Protestant churches and all the schools in the area plan to take to ensure that they will not have pedophiles and child molestors as priests/members/educators?

[bordercolliefan]

What steps, if any, the Christian/Catholic/Protestant churches and all the schools in the area plan to take to ensure that they will not have pedophiles and child molestors as priests/members/educators?

You can ask that question, and many people have. In the Episcopal church, most dioceses require that at least 2 adults be present in a room with children (for example, at Sunday School) at all times. Sunday School teachers are required to provide information for background checks and to undergo training that covers, among other things, sexual harassment and the duty to report suspected child abuse.

I am sure you will find similar policies in most Christian denominations. Once this problem came to light, most (responsible) churches took steps to address it.

In my book, no group is above questioning and/or criticism, as long as there is a rational basis for the questioning.

[john]

Now added with poll goodness.

I find it interesting that this debate is garnering quite a bit of attention for MyFolsom.com. However my personal opinion is that some people are being more vocal than others. The opinion piece makes it seem as though those who oppose the mosque are the majority of Folsom residents. I am not sure this is the case.

Please note, with the poll that is now added, your vote is 100% ANONYMOUS. This would be an interesting take on what MyFolsom netizens think of the mosque after all. Is it as controversial as some think?

[ngilbert]

The opinion piece makes it seem as though those who oppose the mosque are the majority of Folsom residents. I am not sure this is the case.

I would agree - thanks for adding the poll. MyFolsom posters seem to be getting lumped into the same group as the people who put out the flyers in that editorial. I know that the lazier the reporting, the more grease the squeaky wheels will get, but also, as you said, those who support this mosque *aren't* news, even though we're probably the majority.

[bordercolliefan]

The mosque will be built in Folsom.  Muslims, like all Americans and immigrants, have a right to worship here. 

Perhaps a more productive line of discussion is to identify the questions we hope the mosque leaders will address in their meetings with the public. 

Here's a few for starters.  Hopefully the City Council has already asked some or all of these questions.

1.  What is the projected maximum enrollment of the elementary school?  Has the City Council put a cap on it, in view of traffic concerns?   

2.  What are the start/end times for the school? 

3.  Where will the pick-up/drop-off area be for students?  Will cars simply stop/ line up along Sibley? 

4.  What is the projected effect of the school on traffic along Blue Ravine/Sibley (already congested between 2:30-4:30 pm)? 

5.  The widely circulated drawing of the mosque seems incomplete since it does not reflect the grading of the lot, nor any driveways or parking areas.  Can we please see an accurate drawing or scale model of the proposed lay-out? 

6.  What school of Islamic thought will be preached at the mosque?  A more conservative or more reform-minded type?  How will imams or preachers be selected? 

7.  Will services at the mosque be open to the public? 

8.  Will women be segregated from men? 

9.  What involvement, if any, do mosque leaders plan to have with other religious leaders and with the community? 

10.  What steps, if any, does the mosque plan to take to ensure that it will not have radical or extremist members? 

11.  What will be the nature of the school's curriculum?  What will students be taught concerning democracy, civil rights (including women's equality), American history, and the current conflicts with Iraq and Afghanistan?

12.  Who will be teaching at the school?  What qualifications will they have? 

13.  The Bee mentioned "private" sources of funding for the mosque in addition to the contributions of mosque members.  What are these "private" sources of funding? 

This morning the Bee has another article headlined, "Islamic School Furor." Oh, I thought, ANOTHER article about the controversy in Folsom... No, this article is about a mosque and primary school that are proposed to be built south of Lodi. It seems that FBI agents and counter-terrorism officials have determined that the long-term plan for the primary school was for it to be a place where potential terrorists could be spotted and co-opted. One FBI agent linked the proposed school to madrassahs in Pakistan. Some mosque members may not even have been aware of the plans being made by others of their fellow members.

So, I ask you: is it really inappropriate that questions should be asked concerning the scope, intent, and connections of the mosque and primary school proposed to be built in Folsom? This does not mean that we do not recognize the right of Muslims to gather and worship in our community, nor that we fail to welcome individuals as neighbors, co-workers, and schoolmates... but it does mean that we have a healthy caution in view of the current world situation. Let us hope that the City Council and law enforcement officials are asking the right questions to try to ensure the safety of our community and our country.

[old soldier]

I for one don't like the black eye the city is getting as well as my folsom for the fuss a few are making about thiis church.

The fact our biggest business my be the reason for the muslim community and they have been part of the community for a long time makes it embarassing.

I will welcome their attempts at community outreach and I would guess the folks in folsom will show them that the fuss is coming from a few biggots.

On the other hand the muslim community can speed this process by showing that they don't go for all this hate stuff and they feel their religion is being hijacked by those who use their religion as a base for terror.

shucks, this flail may we a good way that we can show the Bee that we are a community of toloration, and like all communities we have a few nuts.

comparing folsom with lodi is bad enough

[CostcoLover]

You can ask that question, and many people have.  In the Episcopal church, most dioceses require that at least 2 adults be present in a room with children (for example, at Sunday School) at all times.  Sunday School teachers are required to provide information for background checks and to undergo training that covers, among other things, sexual harassment and the duty to report suspected child abuse.

I am sure you will find similar policies in most Christian denominations.  Once this problem came to light, most (responsible) churches took steps to address it. 

In my book, no group is above questioning and/or criticism, as long as there is a rational basis for the questioning.

And who's checking on the 2 adults present? Background checks do no good with the child molestors /pedophiles that have never been caught. Heck, just a few years ago all those priests would have passed those background checks with flying colors.

The truth is we're not talking about child molestors or terrorists, and haven't been for some time.

What you're looking for is some sort of assurance/guarantee from the unknown in order to feel safe, and you're looking for it in a free society that espouses freedom of religion.

Even if all your questions are answered, and the religious leaders of the mosque are not terrorist sympathizers, nothing would preclude terrorists from using the mosque as a base, and if the mosque is never built, from using Folsom as a base. It's not like terrorists go around announcing their intent.

As I mentioned several posts back, more Americans have died at the hands of other Americans (murderers) than all foreign wars combined (feel free to include all terrorism).

So perhaps the focus should be on taking steps to prevent that from happening, along with car accidents, heart disease, etc.

I've yet to see a single family house in Folsom where a rock couldn't get me into the place. Do you feel safe in your house? Probably. How about your SUV? Those are just perceptions of safety. In the case of the mosque, I think the perception of lack of safety is greater than what the statistics suggest it should be.

I realize that for starters we have different fear threshholds, so that may also be a contributing factor.

I had a friend back in NY that was in constant fear of everything. He didn't call it that of course, he called it being cautious, better be safe than sorry, ask questions up front, etc. He died by drowning one summer in Jones beach, NY at the age of 32. He was a lifeguard, so he couldn't have been better trained. For all his fears, the things he wasn't afraid of or concerned with took his life. Just some food for thought.

[bordercolliefan]

But what are you suggesting, Costco? That we ask no questions and take no precautions against a known danger (terrorism), because who knows... something else might get us instead??

I say, if we are tyrannized by our own political correctness such that we can't even ask LOGICAL questions of a group that wishes to open a Muslim center, school and library in our town... that is when the "terrorists win."

As for Old Soldier's dismissal of the revelations in Lodi: Should anything untoward happen with the Folsom mosque, you will have a perfect role to play-- the news media always needs someone to say (shaking their head in disbelief), "We never thought it could happen here!"

--Keep in mind, I am not necessarily opposed to a mosque in Folsom. But with all that has happened and continues to happen, I am genuinely flummoxed by people who say, "Great! Build it! The bigger the better!" with no questions asked.