537 replies to this topic

[bishmasterb]

--Keep in mind, I am not necessarily opposed to a mosque in Folsom.  But with all that has happened and continues to happen, I am genuinely flummoxed by people who say, "Great!  Build it! The bigger the better!" with no questions asked.

border,

I'm much more concerned that the school bus that takes my daughter to school every day doesn't have seatbelts. Call me crazy, but I think that is a much bigger danger. Wouldn't you agree?

[CostcoLover]

1. But what are you suggesting, Costco?  That we ask no questions and take no precautions against a known danger (terrorism), because who knows... something else might get us instead??

2. I say, if we are tyrannized by our own political correctness such that we can't even ask LOGICAL questions of a group that wishes to open a Muslim center, school and library in our town... that is when the "terrorists win." 

3. As for Old Soldier's dismissal of the revelations in Lodi:  Should anything untoward happen with the Folsom mosque, you will have a perfect role to play-- the news media always needs someone to say (shaking their head in disbelief), "We never thought it could happen here!"

4. --Keep in mind, I am not necessarily opposed to a mosque in Folsom.  But with all that has happened and continues to happen, I am genuinely flummoxed by people who say, "Great!  Build it! The bigger the better!" with no questions asked.

1. What I'm suggesting is that you're taking greater steps/precautions against one known danger which has smaller odds of affecting you personally (1 in 88,000) than steps/precautions against other known dangers that have a much greater odds of affecting you personally (take your pick from the endless list of possibilities that precede the possibility of dying by terrorist attack - here's a list to some websites- http://www.tomatopag...indpost&p=69472
).

2. It's not "political correctness" - it's a constitutional right of Americans (Muslims included) to freedom of religion.

I have too much respect for our founding fathers, the constitution, and all American soldiers who have fought/served and continue to fight/serve to preserve and defend those rights.

I am unwilling to "water down" the constitution because one man (OBL) and his followers (however many there may be) have strategized to use our freedoms and rights as an entry to position one American (Muslim) against another (non-Muslim) through the use of fear/terror.

The only thing we're tyrannized by is our own fears of the unknown.

3. Who said it could never happen here? We're not exempt from terrorist possibility - and that's true whether or not the mosque is built. You may believe that the odds increase if the mosque is built. I don't share that belief.

We're also not exempt from any other possibilities - yes, Columbine can happen here too, and things we probably can't even imagine can happen here. We're not especially exempted because we happen to live in Folsom.

4. And I am not necessarily opposed to asking questions. They're unlikely to get answered on myfolsom, but perhaps they can be asked at City Hall during the open forum and answered to your satisfaction.

I'll say this much, if every question you pose is answered to your positive expectations, and satisfaction, and you feel the safer for it, you've deluded yourself into believing that you're now 'safe' or safer for asking those questions. Perhaps I'm just too cynical or not naive enough to believe that if some group had some sinister plot in mind that they couldn't hide it simply through denial of its existence.

I do sense other variables at play besides fear threshholds, perceptions of dangers, and assurances from the unknown. That is, a desire of wanting to be able to control our environment to provide us with the illusion of safety that we felt as Americans before 9/11.

[CostcoLover]

border,

I'm much more concerned that the school bus that takes my daughter to school every day doesn't have seatbelts. Call me crazy, but I think that is a much bigger danger. Wouldn't you agree?

You crazy nut you....

P.S. Haven't you heard? It's ok for the state to endanger your kids.

[jetsetter]

There is already 10 mosques in the capitol area. Stop worrying about one more or a hundred more. People are free to build and worship how they want. It is as simple as that.

[FolsomJunior00]

jetsetter...i dont think the problem for most people is the fact that a mosque is being built, but rather what its going to look like.

[bordercolliefan]

jetsetter...i dont think the problem for most people is the fact that a mosque is being built, but rather what its going to look like.

I think there are multiple possible concerns that people can have.

We've just had a long discussion of terrorism. Costco, you may be right: while you agree that terrorism is a real risk (your 2% terrorist sympathizers is a high number), it may be that I am grasping at ways to protect against that threat, when in fact there are no truly effective ways to do so. A chilling thought. I have a friend who works next to Ground Zero, and another friend who lives in London and passes by one of the bombing sites. I have never told my children about 9/11 (too evil to bring into their innocent, secure world), and I liked to believe that here in Folsom, we were somewhat isolated from such hate and violence. Maybe that is just an impossible fantasy.

Yesterday's Bee article about the Lodi mosque and school had an interesting comment from a Muslim woman. She stated that good Muslim women are effectively isolated in their homes, since they are forbidden from having contact with men who are not in their family. She had been looking forward to the mosque, because it would give Muslim women a segregated place to gather without fear that they might come in contact with, gasp! a man.

Certainly, everyone who believes in women's equality has reason to be concerned about what values might be taught at the mosque and school soon to be in our community.

[Chad Vander Veen]

BCF, that is a great example of why multi-culturalism is an abject failure. America has ceased to be melting pot and is now a mosaic.

[bordercolliefan]

Perhaps you are right, cv.

I have said all along that given America's freedom of religion, the City Council probably made the only decision it could make -- i.e., to welcome the mosque. Constitutionally, it is the right decision.

But it's time to take the blinders off. This is a group that oppresses women and has called for death as the punishment for homosexuality. Ideologically, this is little different from inviting Jerry Falwell or Bob Jones to open a church here.

I wonder if we'd see the same people lining up to welcome them.

[uberman]

jetsetter...i dont think the problem for most people is the fact that a mosque is being built, but rather what its going to look like.

I disagree, I think it's an excuse to protest the mosque in a way that doesn't make them look like a bigot.

But it's time to take the blinders off.  This is a group that oppresses women and has called for death as the punishment for homosexuality.  Ideologically, this is little different from inviting Jerry Falwell or Bob Jones to open a church here.

This group your referring to are: 1) Taliban 2) Government of Riyadh 3) Other Islamo-fascit dictatorships. It is not doctrine stated in the Qúran or in the teachings of Mohammed.

In a lot of ways, Christianity is far more oppressive of Woman.

[LexHillsmom]

While I do not agree with and/or condone the "sequestering" mentality practiced among SOME Muslims (segregation is not Islamically required but rather a cultural practice) we cannot tell other people how to practice their interpretation of their faith unless it violates the laws of the land. Having argued this point among other Muslims on several occasions I have learned that this mentality is spurned from the idea of "protecting" women - something these women themselves defend and desire.

When Muslims pray they prostrate on the knees and kneel and bend - and many Muslims feel a woman should not be in a compromised position with her rear end in the face of a man. Can't say I blame them there. However, forbidding the mixing of the sexes is not a part of Islam - it is a cultural abberation. Islam, like all of the three monotheistic faiths, endorse modesty and chastity among men and women alike - some Muslims interpret information from OUTSIDE Quranic scripture to forbid the mixing of the sexes, ect.

There are Islamic institutions here in the U.S. - such as SALAM (Sacramento Area League of Associated Muslims) that are inclusive and don't focus on gender segregation and men and women mix freely. I truly believe these grassroots movements are going to be the rule, not the exeption in the next 10 to 15 years.

[Chad Vander Veen]

In a lot of ways, Christianity is far more oppressive of Woman.

Really!? Please name the ways.

[bordercolliefan]

There are Islamic institutions here in the U.S. - such as SALAM (Sacramento Area League of Associated Muslims) that are inclusive and don't focus on gender segregation and men and women mix freely.  I truly believe these grassroots movements are going to be the rule, not the exeption in the next 10 to 15 years.

It is always possible that the Folsom mosque is a renegade, reform-minded group... certainly, if I were to hear Mr. Seddique and the other mosque leaders embracing equality for women and tolerance of homosexuality, I would feel a lot better about the whole thing.

Mr. Seddique????????

[LexHillsmom]

It is always possible that the Folsom mosque is a renegade, reform-minded group... certainly, if I were to hear Mr. Seddique and the other mosque leaders embracing equality for women and tolerance of homosexuality, I would feel a lot better about the whole thing. 

Mr. Seddique????????

Do any religons tolerate homosexuality?

[tessieca]

I'm much more concerned that the school bus that takes my daughter to school every day doesn't have seatbelts. Call me crazy, but I think that is a much bigger danger. Wouldn't you agree?

You missed BCF's whole point. There are many, many things about which to be concerned. That does not mean it is unreasonable to ask questions about the potential ramifications of opening this center in Folsom.

As she noted, it will open because that is the only constitutional solution, but people can and probably should be vigilant given the history of some of these centers (one of which is very close in Lodi).

[bishmasterb]

You missed BCF's whole point.  There are many, many things about which to be concerned.  That does not mean it is unreasonable to ask questions about the potential ramifications of opening this center in Folsom. 

And exactly how many real concerns warrant 26 pages on an online forum? Has there been a 26 page thread about seatbelts or smoking or healthy eating somewhere that I missed? Perhaps there has. But it seems like people want to complain forever about relatively low risk things (like Ms. Teaz and this Mosque) while high risk things like diet, smoking, seatbelts aren't exciting enough.

Don't get me wrong, I understand it is much more interesting and "debatable" to discuss the Mosque than it is to discuss seatbelt use, but the relative risk still needs to be pointed out.

For instance, any one of us is much more likely to be killed by a non-Muslim American male than we are by a Muslim terrorist.