627 replies to this topic

[tessieca]

Did anyone say anything about cutting programs?

The difference between the district's offer and the union's proposal is $1.4 million dollars. Robert is correct that there will need to be cuts if the teachers receive the amount they are currently demanding. Since FCUSD is mostly people, most of the cuts would come from decrease or elimination of staff . . . somewhere.

My mistake but in the postion I hold COLA stands for cost of living allowances. Usually this is applied to wages when the employer acknowledges that the sum of basic pay is not aligned with the fair housing costs where the employment takes place. Example: So if a teachers base pay is a certain % (specified at time of employement usually) below the fair market housing for the area where employment takes place then the employee shall receive a marked increase in pay to equalize the cost of living within the employment area.
Am I wrong? Is this not part of the negotiations?

I'd have to say you're wrong when you're talking about school districts. (Even private companies don't do it that way, but that's for another discussion.) When deciding how much to give to teachers or other district employees, there is a comparison with other competitors for those positions. That's why you see the charts comparing teacher salaries, or why the district does a salary survey of school secretaries, custodians, etc., from time to time. The % increase for these groups is decided based on what the district can afford and what it requires to attract and keep good employees. In the instant example, the district believes it can attract and retain good teachers with its current offer and a commitment to continue improving benefits, without requiring cuts to other staff and programs. The teachers disagree (on both aspects). On to mediation . . .

[tessieca]

Most teachers I know elect to get paid over 12 months, not 9. $48K a year is still just $48K a year whether you elect to take it over 10 months or 12. If you try and look at it any other way, its just fuzzy math.

I think they are taking an annual salary and dividing it by the number of months an average teacher works. Then, it is annualized to come up with the salary one would get if they were to work all year. It's not fuzzy, it's just another way of looking at it.

[DrKoz23]

Do you people really have nothing better to do than worry about how much someone gets paid and how much time off they get?

I should care when I pay their salaries through taxes. Why should I be apathetic.

You do know that there are many other professions in this world that pay much more than teaching. Why aren't you going after them?

Because the topic at hand is about the teachers. Bring up another public sector job... and maybe I would object about that as well.

[gingerkid]

Hey doc, Dan entered the conversation just when TM left it. Hmmm, are they related? Inductive reasoning says it's quite likely. They sound quite a bit alike in their attacks.

It's actually been pleasant to read the last couple of pages since people are discussing it reasonably for a bit. As parents we are being asked to "support the teachers." We are being told by our kids that they're discussing it at school. We have not only a right, but I think an obligation to understand the issues so we can know just how much support is necessary. I might be talked into wearing pastel green, but I'm not at lime green just yet.

[DrKoz23]

Hey doc, Dan entered the conversation just when TM left it. Hmmm, are they related? Inductive reasoning says it's quite likely. They sound quite a bit alike in their attacks.

This I don't know. I am sure one of the mods could answer that one. Sorry.

[cw68]

This I don't know. I am sure one of the mods could answer that one. Sorry.

It doesn't appear as if they are the same person.

[TM70]

Hey doc, Dan entered the conversation just when TM left it. Hmmm, are they related? Inductive reasoning says it's quite likely. They sound quite a bit alike in their attacks.

It's actually been pleasant to read the last couple of pages since people are discussing it reasonably for a bit. As parents we are being asked to "support the teachers." We are being told by our kids that they're discussing it at school. We have not only a right, but I think an obligation to understand the issues so we can know just how much support is necessary. I might be talked into wearing pastel green, but I'm not at lime green just yet.

It's all "reasonable" because you all talking to yourselves and thankfully ignoring, for the most part dan76.

I'm not him/her. I've just been reading all your posts. There's too many people covering my bases now, so I don't have to write everyday, just read... If you were a teacher you would obviously know that dan76 is some kid who found this thread.

Sorry to disappoint you?

We've been told that the district doesn't have the money. It's true I found out...yes it's true...sad to say they have no money when they pay $100 for a hammer and $300 for a toilet seat...just an analogy, but you get the point. I talked to a few veteran teachers who were on the last negotiating team and they told me it was amazing the lengths the district would go to to hide money.

Example, you home budget. You double your amount for food. Doesn't necessarily mean you are eating more food, you've just budgeted more. Sorry no money for swim lessons this year little Billy. This is but one of the tactics used.

ALSO...I found out yesterday that late last summer when the superintendents in CA came together for their annual meeting, I guess they meet from time to time just like anyone else, they decided that whatever raises for teachers this year would be at 5.25% or below. Granted some districts were above this, but it's interesting to see that we are right on that number and it hasn't changed a bit.

Again, I don't want to strike and I don't talk about this with my students.

Also, I have to laugh, not one person has address how 4.65% + $100 = 5.25% That is the deal the district is floating and honestly their numbers do not add up and they know it. They are just laughing at us and that may be the straw that broke the camels back. Just saying...I'm pretty frustrated with all of this and I wish everyone would just cut to the chase...

I've been through this three times since coming to FCUSD and it's getting old...really old...I never really thought about it earlier in my career, but this is one of the reasons some teachers start teaching to the contract and cutting participation in extra-curriculars. We don't make that much money AT ALL doing clubs, etc...we do it for the kids and the enjoyment they get out of it. If this holds, I'll just spend my time with my own kids. I'm tired, so tired of all the garbage the district puts us through and they know it.

[TM70]

rethought what I was going to say here. Not worth it I'll just keep reading...

[Robert Giacometti]

It's all "reasonable" because you all talking to yourselves and thankfully ignoring, for the most part dan76.

I'm not him/her. I've just been reading all your posts. There's too many people covering my bases now, so I don't have to write everyday, just read... If you were a teacher you would obviously know that dan76 is some kid who found this thread.

Sorry to disappoint you?

We've been told that the district doesn't have the money. It's true I found out...yes it's true...sad to say they have no money when they pay $100 for a hammer and $300 for a toilet seat...just an analogy, but you get the point. I talked to a few veteran teachers who were on the last negotiating team and they told me it was amazing the lengths the district would go to to hide money.

Example, you home budget. You double your amount for food. Doesn't necessarily mean you are eating more food, you've just budgeted more. Sorry no money for swim lessons this year little Billy. This is but one of the tactics used.

ALSO...I found out yesterday that late last summer when the superintendents in CA came together for their annual meeting, I guess they meet from time to time just like anyone else, they decided that whatever raises for teachers this year would be at 5.25% or below. Granted some districts were above this, but it's interesting to see that we are right on that number and it hasn't changed a bit.

Again, I don't want to strike and I don't talk about this with my students.

Also, I have to laugh, not one person has address how 4.65% + $100 = 5.25% That is the deal the district is floating and honestly their numbers do not add up and they know it. They are just laughing at us and that may be the straw that broke the camels back. Just saying...I'm pretty frustrated with all of this and I wish everyone would just cut to the chase...

I've been through this three times since coming to FCUSD and it's getting old...really old...I never really thought about it earlier in my career, but this is one of the reasons some teachers start teaching to the contract and cutting participation in extra-curriculars. We don't make that much money AT ALL doing clubs, etc...we do it for the kids and the enjoyment they get out of it. If this holds, I'll just spend my time with my own kids. I'm tired, so tired of all the garbage the district puts us through and they know it.

TM70, If the District is hiding these funds like you claim....where do they show up as being spent?
If they aren't being spent, then they would have to be put into reserves. Doesn't the State require Districts to go through an audit? It should be relatively easy to compare the reserves from year to year from the auditors report to show how much reserves are increasing.

Finally, if you use $16,666.66 multiplied by 4.65% and add $100 you get $875.00 ( rounded up), which is 5.25% of $16,666.66 ( rounded up).

[TM70]

TM70, If the District is hiding these funds like you claim....where do they show up as being spent?
If they aren't being spent, then they would have to be put into reserves. Doesn't the State require Districts to go through an audit? It should be relatively easy to compare the reserves from year to year from the auditors report to show how much reserves are increasing.

Finally, if you use $16,666.66 multiplied by 4.65% and add $100 you get $875.00 ( rounded up), which is 5.25% of $16,666.66 ( rounded up).

That's the deal Robert. They are not spending it!!! Sorry Robert, but come on... It's hidden God knows where in the budget. How do I know how much a budget item really is and how much is really needed. They are the masters of the budget, if I wanted to hide money in my home budget, I could do it. Just crank up a number here a number there. Also, put more in reserves and say you are using it for items that are so low on the totem pole that it smacks of disregard and disrespect.

They did this last time and our negotiators found the money! It was there! This time our negotiators are greener, but they know where it's at. We just have to decide how badly we want to go after it.

Basically, we asked what priorities they had and they said Edline and non-public special education students. Edline cost $18,000 and non-public special ed students will actually save money. They won't be honest. It's as simple as that...look they are playing politics and holding most of the cards. We have to fight for our cost of living money. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of this and if we have to fight I guess I will, but I really don't want to strike. Hopefully the district will pull their collective heads out and be honest.

Robert, FCUSD has had a larger than needed reserve for 5 straight years. Not a little, but a lot. The have a reserve around 9%, the law requires 3%. The teachers want another 1.4 mil for the gap and they have it with plenty to spare. They have anywhere from 7-11 million in reserve depending on who you talk to... Be fair, we settle and move on...Godwin is trying to save face with the board and the other supers in the state. It's game to him.

Also, I don't want to strike and I do not talk to my students about this...

I know, kinda sounds like dan76...whatever...

[TM70]

TM70, If the District is hiding these funds like you claim....where do they show up as being spent?
If they aren't being spent, then they would have to be put into reserves. Doesn't the State require Districts to go through an audit? It should be relatively easy to compare the reserves from year to year from the auditors report to show how much reserves are increasing.

Finally, if you use $16,666.66 multiplied by 4.65% and add $100 you get $875.00 ( rounded up), which is 5.25% of $16,666.66 ( rounded up).

Thanks for finally replying about 4.65% +$100 = 5.25%

You're a very pragmatic man. Thanks, I'm just glad I don't make $17k(rounded).

I just don't understand how a district can float numbers like this and not expect people to question them. Again, they did this the last time we had contract negotiations. They sent out a retro sheet with the calculations from payroll on how they calculated the amounts. They were ALL wrong. They had to redo everything. It was worse than Microsoft's spaghetti code they use for Windows. They also did it a few summer schools ago. Caught that one too. They do this stuff all the time.

[TM70]

It doesn't appear as if they are the same person.

They are not.

[Robert Giacometti]

That's the deal Robert. They are not spending it!!! Sorry Robert, but come on... It's hidden God knows where in the budget. How do I know how much a budget item really is and how much is really needed. They are the masters of the budget, if I wanted to hide money in my home budget, I could do it. Just crank up a number here a number there. Also, put more in reserves and say you are using it for items that are so low on the totem pole that it smacks of disregard and disrespect.

They did this last time and our negotiators found the money! It was there! This time our negotiators are greener, but they know where it's at. We just have to decide how badly we want to go after it.

Basically, we asked what priorities they had and they said Edline and non-public special education students. Edline cost $18,000 and non-public special ed students will actually save money. They won't be honest. It's as simple as that...look they are playing politics and holding most of the cards. We have to fight for our cost of living money. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of this and if we have to fight I guess I will, but I really don't want to strike. Hopefully the district will pull their collective heads out and be honest.

Robert, FCUSD has had a larger than needed reserve for 5 straight years. Not a little, but a lot. The have a reserve around 9%, the law requires 3%. The teachers want another 1.4 mil for the gap and they have it with plenty to spare. They have anywhere from 7-11 million in reserve depending on who you talk to... Be fair, we settle and move on...Godwin is trying to save face with the board and the other supers in the state. It's game to him.

Also, I don't want to strike and I do not talk to my students about this...

I know, kinda sounds like dan76...whatever...

I understand your saying about budgeting. You might want to find out if there is a maximum amount a District can keep in reserves?

I have to confess, on one hand I'm grateful my District has more than the State minimum on reserves, then on the other hand I wonder did we cut programs to achieve that balance?

It might be interesting to see how much has gone into reserves each year for the last 5 years. It seems all we as parents have heard the last 5 years was budget cuts for this and for that, I am going to be a bit disappointed if we had been intentionally increasing our reserves, while children lost out on opportunities.

[TM70]

I understand your saying about budgeting. You might want to find out if there is a maximum amount a District can keep in reserves?

I have to confess, on one hand I'm grateful my District has more than the State minimum on reserves, then on the other hand I wonder did we cut programs to achieve that balance?

It might be interesting to see how much has gone into reserves each year for the last 5 years. It seems all we as parents have heard the last 5 years was budget cuts for this and for that, I am going to be a bit disappointed if we had been intentionally increasing our reserves, while children lost out on opportunities.

I'm happy about it too. I have children in the district as well. Even with 7-11 million in reserves, we are not asking for anywhere near what will get them close to the minimum. I know some people think we are greedy, but I've gotten past those opinions. I know we are not, we're just trying to get a fair shake. For lack of a better phrase, I heard another teacher say this the other day, "It's a pissing contest" New to me, but I understand the meaning. How about a blinking contest. That one I can do...

Robert, I can only tell you what I know. The district has had a hefty reserve for the last five years. I don't have exact numbers and even if the district did release numbers, who is to say whether they are accurate or not. Their latest info to parents, teachers, geesh anyone who will listen has inaccuracies all over it. It is frustrating and sad.

Again, I do not want to strike and I do not talk about this in my class...

[Parizienne]

The USA Today article referenced in Cookie's post gives a general picture of pension benefits for all public employees nationwide. Thank you for providing something from an impartial entity. However, I believe the article's rather general perspective needs some clarification.

Anyone wanting to get a sharper picture on the state of teachers' retirement in California, please visit http://www.calrta.or...?id=52&cat_id=7

Federal policy penalizes teachers in several states, including California, from drawing on social security they may have earned in other careers or while working summer jobs to make ends meet. In addition, teachers are severely limited or prohibited from drawing survivor's social security benefits (when a spouse dies) because the teachers have a public pension. Problem is, many of us legitimately paid into the social security system, and we won't see most or all of that money. Our private sector-employed spouses paid into it, but if they die, we don't get their benefit as the survivor. Has quite an impact on retirement planning! The real kicker is that if the teacher dies first, the spouse gets to keep his own social security AND the teacher's pension. It's hard to know where the gaps will be and what amount needs to be saved/invested when the goals are unclear and the rules keep changing.

Labor officials are predicting a shortage of teachers. Over the next ten years, 100,000 California teachers will be retiring. Many new teachers will come into the profession as a second career (as did I), but they are unaware they will relinquish most or all of their own paid social security and most or all of their survivor's benefits. My guess is that might discourage some good people who are willing to give up private-sector salaries and benefits packages for making a difference in the public school system. I know I didn't know about this when I changed careers.

Also, more and more California districts are not providing medical benefits after retirement which certainly cuts into teachers' pension incomes pretty deeply.

Pari =D

Salary: $40k - $80k (for 9 months) = $53k - $106k (for 12 months)

I refer you back to back to the article that was posted earlier in the thread in case you missed it:

Pension gap divides public and private workers
http://usatoday.com/...POE=click-refer

A typical full-time state or local government worker made $78,853 in wages and benefits in the third quarter of 2006, $25,771 more than a typical private-sector worker, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports. The difference was $7,604 in 2000. The compensation advantage holds true for all types of public workers, from teachers to laborers and managers.

Pensions for civil servants often are superior to private pensions in subtle ways that make a huge financial difference. For example, government pensions:

•Generally base benefits on a worker's top three earning years. Private pensions typically base benefits on the top five years of pay, which lowers the average.

•Often let retirees add the value of overtime, unused leave and other benefits into the pension formula. The results can be extreme. Dover, N.H., Police Chief William Fenniman, 46, added more than $200,000 for severance, sick leave and other payouts into his three-year salary average when he retired in January. This will boost his retirement benefit to as much as $125,000 a year, more than he made as chief.

•Permit early retirement at age 50 or 55 with less of a benefit reduction than private pensions.

•Provide free or subsidized medical care for retirees under age 65 and supplemental coverage after that for those on Medicare.

•More often provide automatic cost-of-living increases to benefits.