537 replies to this topic

[folsom500]

It is this type of thinking that terrorists depend upon.  I don't think we should ever assume that a dam which, if damaged, could potentially flood the capitol of one of the world's largest economies, would not be a target.

I would agree - but this has little to do with the new Mosque in Folsom.
Apprently most in this forum do not understand that being Muslim does NOT predicate one towards terrorism.
Worse yet- if we look at the demographics of the known terrorists and those suspected ( such as in Lodi) one would find that the make up of the local Muslim groups is outside of these ethnic groups. While most of the known terrorists are middle eastern, the majority of those that worship in Folsom NOW are of Indian decent.
Just within India there are numerous groups that , while they are muslim by religion are very different in their politics and personal beliefs.
An Indian with a turben -( Siek (SP) is hardly one to worry about- most are devout vegetarians and have a love and respect for other humans in a way that is hard to describe. Others- from India and Pakistan have never shown- in my years of working with them- anything other than a gratitude and respect of this America which they live and want to be part of.

I also know many from Iran and know they are hard working - Americans and wish to live the life here as such... without the type of biases WHITE MANS bigotry that some on this forum preach out of ignorance...

So my message - do not lump all muslims into the negative and I would suggest that you EACH get to know your Indian or middle easterner in your area. Also to think more about how we can all get along than worry about some wacko trying to blow up the dam.

Cheers
F500

[randb]

If you don't want the mosque because of traffic concerns, I can understand that. If you don't want the mosque because of security concerns, well that's just plain silly.

[bordercolliefan]

I think the "haven't decided"s are the most sensible poll-responders. Perhaps they realize how little we have been told about this mosque project.

Many of those who are voting "yes, I welcome it!" are voting out of a knee-jerk belief that we must be tolerant of every group, and that to be unwelcoming (or even to ask questions) would violate America's freedom of religion.

Those who are voting "No" seem to be voting out of myriad fears and concerns -- from terrorism to traffic to architecture to fear of promulgating sexism/anti-Judaism, etc. -- which may or may not be well-founded.

The fact is, neither side knows enough about this proposed mosque and school to vote intelligently. Here are a few things we don't know:

--How many students the school will have, and therefore how much traffic it will generate.

--Whether it will be a modern, reform-type mosque, or a more traditional mosque (with separation of genders, preaching that it's okay to hit your wife as the Quran instructs, anti-Jewish ideology, etc.).

--Whether the school will teach a philosophy of integration and gender equality (like the mosque in Carmichael, from what I've heard), or a philosophy of Muslim isolation, gender segregation, etc. (like the proposed mosque in Lodi).

Surely, we have every reason to be interested in these questions. The graduates of the proposed Islamic School will be America's future citizens. It should be important to all of us that they are schooled in a way that helps them assimilate into American society and participate in American workplaces and democracy (with the gender equality and pluralism that implies) -- rather than in a way that encourages them to isolate themselves and to practice the most conservative Islamic ideology.

One thing I have learned in recent weeks is that there is no one "Islam." There are (a few) modern, reform-minded mosques, there are conservative or traditional mosques, there are (a few) extremist mosques, and everything in between. What do we know about the mosque Folsom will be getting?? The "Yes's" are assuming it will be an admirable, progressive mosque. The "No's" are assuming it will be a conservative or even extremist mosque. Aren't both sides just making assumptions in a situation of insufficient information?

[mylo]

http://www.sacbee.co...-14343424c.html

"... Yang said Samana knew Washington and Patterson from an area mosque ..."

[CostcoLover]

BCF,

You still haven't gone down to City Hall and asked those questions? I thought by now you'd have the answers.

[bordercolliefan]

We know that Mr. Siddique and every City Council member are reading this thread, so I'm wondering why we don't have those answers, too.

[CostcoLover]

Perhaps they prefer to answer in an official capacity within the procedural formality and decorum of the City Hall meetings.....

I wouldn't answer these types of questions on a forum either, nor would I have answered the Ms. Teaz objections on a public forum.

[Kerri Howell]

Thank you CostoLover,

I have already posted my opinion on this subject, here, during the most recent Council meeting and in both the Bee and the Telegraph. I have gotten a lot of e-mails regarding my comments, but none from anyone posting here. You are correct that the most likely reason for NOT posting here in response to questions, is that it would require significant time to monitor what else gets posted in response to the response. Maybe I am just anal (which I am), and perhaps I have less time to spend posting on this web site, and maybe that is why my colleagues don't post here - Andy Morin did several months ago, to my knowledge, Mr King, Starsky and Miklos have never posted here. In addition, you all know who WE are, and I can count on 1.2 hands, the number of you who don't use a screen name intended to shield your identity (me, Cal May, Val Doss, Bob Fish, Chad Venderveen and Robert Giacometti). So, I will make the same offer - yet again - that I make most of the time I post something, or when you issue a challenge to the Council Members to post - call me at home (number is in the phone book), email me (go to the City's web site or respond from here), stop me when you see me somewhere, or come to a council meeting and ask all the questions you want - and be sure to use your name. I will answer any question you have, I will get you an answer if I don't know it, I will share my opinion on just about any subject - be careful here, because I think that everyone is entitled to my opinion, and I will respond in a timely manner.

Kerri Howell

[jetsetter]

It is this type of thinking that terrorists depend upon.  I don't think we should ever assume that a dam which, if damaged, could potentially flood the capitol of one of the world's largest economies, would not be a target.

If you knew anything about the structure of the dam then you would not be criticizing me. There are several other targets that would be easier to take out.

[CataBird]

what about the noise that might come from the call to prayer 5 times a day....

I'm waiting for the mosque to sue the city over that eventually... there was a law passed I think in Michigan somewhere because the city was worried about being sued because of "discrimination"....

I for one wish we could have closed our borders and not have these folks because let's face it... We are in a "religious" and "cultural" war....

Islam is not a religion of peace... it's a religion of "submission"....get it...?

EDF,

I wouldn't worry about hearing the call to prayer. I spent 3 months in Saudi Arabia, hearing that call far and wide, yet have never heard that call even once while here in the States. I think our government might consider that noise polution. I sure would.

Remember, America is a land of immigrants, and folks from Arab nations are immigrants also, and we all must learn to live together peacefully. Let's also remember our U.S. Constitution's First Amendment giving freedom of religion--ALL religions--to its citizens. So, building a church is hardly an indication we'll be over-run by terrorists.

Do you honestly think the proposed Mosque is the first ever built in America, and that the small percentage of Muslims living in the States would have the impetus or authority to demand the entire population be forced to listen to the daily repeated call for prayers broadcast on some massive PA system? Especially if it's performed in Arabic?

Please, EDF, show some modicum of common sense.

[tessieca]

Good point, Mennabear. That's why some of us are willing to at least question the project rather than sinking into complacency and being lulled by fears of being called wacko's and haters.

[mylo]

I hate wacko's

[Farley]

Karen Hughes, who is leading President George W. Bush's efforts to improve America's image in the Islamic world, said on Friday hatred directed at Muslims was no more acceptable than violence done in the name of that religion.

She also said her new post as undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs would cover efforts to respond to civil liberty concerns within the United States from Muslims whose lives and travel have been disrupted in the name of national security.

Hughes made the comments at the annual meeting of the Islamic Society of North America, one of the largest gatherings of its type in the United States attended by up to 40,000 Muslims.

"We want to be a welcoming country," she told reporters after private meetings with delegates and Islamic leaders.

"We have a common interest in confronting terror and violence and crime and hate that is committed in the name of any religion," she said.

Hughes, who has been one of Bush's closest communications advisers, praised the group for issuing a new pamphlet that takes a strong stand against violence and religious extremism.

It also urges people of all faiths to speak out against the "backlash and widespread denomination of Islam and Muslims" that followed such incidents as the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States and the London bombings this summer, acts blamed on Islamic extremists.

"What I also heard is that ... as we want Muslim voices to speak out against terror and violence and extremism, it is equally important that we be mindful of speaking out against all voices of hate and incitement including those raised against Muslims themselves," she said.

The group had urged President George W. Bush to appear before the convention in person, but leaders said Hughes had made a good impression.


http://news.yahoo.co...gion_muslims_dc

[bordercolliefan]

Well, there is some additional information available. Thanks to Kerri Howell for supplying this info.

The school will have grades K-5. Presently, the Islamic Society is educating 14 children at a site at Wales/School St. With the new school, they expect to educate 120 kids in 6 classrooms. The City Council has not capped enrollment or put any restrictions on it; however, the enrollment may be limited by the capacity of the classrooms.

Reading between the lines, I am surmising that girls and boys will be educated together (assuming one classroom per grade level), unlike the planned Lodi school. As a champion of equal rights for women, I personally view this as a good sign.

As for traffic, Kerri does not believe parents will drop off on Sibley, as they would be in danger of being rear-ended. (Question: Will the parking lot really be large enough to accomodate 90+ cars for pick-ups and drop-offs? This seems to be a big problem at every elementary school).

Kerry does not have any additional info on the nature of the mosque (reform versus conservative), the additional sources of funding, etc. She noted that making these inquiries would violate the separation of church and state. This is a fair point, but I had hoped that in the informal discussions leading up to approval of this project, Mr. Siddique would have shared much of this information.

I guess we are waiting for the public meeting(s) Mr. Siddique has stated he will have.

[Joe]

This thread has inspired me to take an Intro to Islam class.