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Folsom Car Bombing


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#31 Steve Heard

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Oct 9 2006, 01:14 PM) View Post

I haven't seen a single person say a hate crime couldn't happen in Folsom. That is just an outright distortion of people's comments.

What I have seen people say is: let's wait until we have more facts. There are multiple possible explanations for this event.

You're the one who's being close-minded here, Steve, by refusing to admit that there is ANY OTHER POSSIBLE EXPLANATION for this crime other than race.

Who knows... maybe the victim had a dog who always pee'd on the other guy's lawn (just thought I'd throw in something you can relate to! smile.gif ) Just maybe, there is something going on here other than race. Can't you acknowlege that??


Sure I can acknowledge that there could be other possibilities. The police are leaning toward hate crime, and are investigating it as such. Are they wrong to do so?

I'd love for this to be a case of a neighbor angry over dog pee, but given the comments I read on this board, the fact that middle-eastern looking people have been attacked accross this country, that firebomging has been a traditional weapon used by racists against minorities (they don't need to leave a swastika or other calling card), it is looking more like a hate crime than a dog pee issue.

I'll be the first to breathe a sigh of relief if it wasn't.

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#32 Buford T Justice

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 12:41 PM

QUOTE(stevethedad @ Oct 9 2006, 02:52 PM) View Post

If the perpetrator were Middle Eastern or muslim, we'd call him a terrorist, right? What do we call this guy?


a dumb redneck cracker

QUOTE
Every day we read on myfolsom.com posts from people attacking muslims and immigrants, accusing them of terrorism, sympathizing with terrorists, refusing to assimilate, and importing their 'sewers of society'.


I suspect EDF - where was he at 3am?

QUOTE
Folsom has some great and wonderful people, but we also have our share of racists. Some Folsom PD officers jokingly refer to "NIF" calls. You know what that stands for? "N*gger in Folsom." They call it that because that's just what gets reported to them. "Hello, I just saw a black man driving through my neighborhood. Please send a patrol car."


ANY cop that uses that term needs to be FIRED IMMEDIATELY. IMO, the use of that word is a hate crime.

QUOTE
When a minority person's home is firebombed by a young white male, yes we assume it could be race related. We'd be naive to deny it.


If the punk who did it knew who the owner of the car was, yes its a hate crime and race related. If the punk had no clue who owned the car and was doing random vandelism (gone very bad) then its not racial.

QUOTE
We can admit that it is possible, even likely that it was a race related hate crime, or we can pretend that because the guy didn't leave a swastika, that he just chose it at random, and heck, the guy seen running away could have been any race, it just happens that a white guy was jogging past on his way to work (by the way, why didn't he report it? maybe he saw something."


we can admit it IS possible but we should also be aware that its not the ONLY reason that it could have happened (read prior examples) and maybe that guy is the one who called the police? Maybe he is Osama and he was getting revenge on a deserter? Nobody knows (yet)


#33 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE(stevethedad @ Oct 9 2006, 12:52 PM) View Post

What is pathetic is the belief that this sort of thing (a hate crime) couldn't happen in Folsom. If you'd walk a mile in the shoes of a minority person in this town, you'd look at it differently. In order to believe it could be a hate crime, you'd have to believe there is racism in Folsom. There is.

Here are the facts as reported through several news outlets:

* Police confirmed it was an incendiary device
* A white male was seen running from the place
* Police are investigating it as a possible hate crime

Yes, it is pathetic that some lowly coward would attack someone with a firebomb in the middle of the night.

If the perpetrator were Middle Eastern or muslim, we'd call him a terrorist, right? What do we call this guy?

I've mentioned a couple of times here how an Afghani 3rd grader was pushed around, insulted, humiliated and marginalized at school after 9/11. It didn't matter that his family fled the Taliban, he was the same race, so he was made a target. Where did 3rd graders get their views on the matter? I'd guess their parents.

Every day we read on myfolsom.com posts from people attacking muslims and immigrants, accusing them of terrorism, sympathizing with terrorists, refusing to assimilate, and importing their 'sewers of society'.

Folsom has some great and wonderful people, but we also have our share of racists. Some Folsom PD officers jokingly refer to "NIF" calls. You know what that stands for? "N*gger in Folsom." They call it that because that's just what gets reported to them. "Hello, I just saw a black man driving through my neighborhood. Please send a patrol car."

My daughters have told me that the 'N' word is used frequently by Folsom kids.

I even had to jump in on a conversation my teenag daughter's friend were having, claiming that the 'Mexicans are taking over". Where do they get such crap?

There have been people who have said "we cannot allow this mosque to be built."

It does not surprise me in the least that this firebomb has happened. I expect more as the mosque goes up.

When a minority person's home is firebombed by a young white male, yes we assume it could be race related. We'd be naive to deny it.

We can admit that it is possible, even likely that it was a race related hate crime, or we can pretend that because the guy didn't leave a swastika, that he just chose it at random, and heck, the guy seen running away could have been any race, it just happens that a white guy was jogging past on his way to work (by the way, why didn't he report it? maybe he saw something."

Yes, Robert, it is pathetic.


Steve,

Its sad you can't see you are jumping to conclusions without all the facts. Your comment about it being based on skin color was very premature and quite frankly inappropriate.

There is no value in trying to incite this issue into a race issue until the facts are known. You mentioned possibilities but there are many different possibilities and we may never know who or why. You cite all these other issues and somehow using these other issues as justification for what you wrote....this is wrong.

We all need to be extremely sensitive of bringing race into issues. If we are ever to be truly be a color blind society then we all must refrain from bringing skin color into issues, prematurely!

Yes, there are many possibilities of who or why this happened, but you chose to focus on only one. Race is an extremely volatile issue and by bringing it prematurely it only makes it more volatile. IMHO all you have accomplished is to expose your prejudices.

I have confidence in my neighbors and friends that once the facts are known the community will support doing the right thing. If I didn't have that confidence in my community I wouldn't want to live there and wouldn't!


#34 bordercolliefan

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 01:14 PM

QUOTE(stevethedad @ Oct 9 2006, 01:20 PM) View Post

Sure I can acknowledge that there could be other possibilities. The police are leaning toward hate crime, and are investigating it as such. Are they wrong to do so?


No, of course they should look into every possible angle.

It is also possible that the police have additional knowledge that has not been made public that leads them in the direction of a hate crime. If, for example, the victim has previously been the target of ethnic slurs or graffiti, then it is all the more likely that the bombing may be part of a campaign of hate. We just don't know.

Even if this is a hate crime, I would be wary of painting all (or even most) Folsomites with the same brush as the perpetrator. I bet he will turn out to be someone with a past criminal record, possibly a nutcase, uneducated... a real loser--- hardly someone who is representative of mainstream Folsom. As you are fond of pointing out, there are a few nutcases and extremists everywhere you go: it doesn't mean the whole society is that way.

#35 LexHillsmom

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 01:16 PM

:
QUOTE(mylo @ Oct 9 2006, 10:44 AM) View Post

I dunno.. they are building that mosque over on Sibley. With all the layoffs at Intel, you might just have some out-of-work Jihadists that plot to explode vehicles before their usual morning jog. Don't be surprised to find out it was Al Qaida Folsom.


lmaosmiley.gif Mylo ya just plain crack me up...

#36 Steve Heard

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 01:34 PM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Oct 9 2006, 01:54 PM) View Post

Its sad you can't see you are jumping to conclusions without all the facts. Your comment about it being based on skin color was very premature and quite frankly inappropriate.

There is no value in trying to incite this issue into a race issue until the facts are known. You mentioned possibilities but there are many different possibilities and we may never know who or why. You cite all these other issues and somehow using these other issues as justification for what you wrote....this is wrong.

We all need to be extremely sensitive of bringing race into issues. If we are ever to be truly be a color blind society then we all must refrain from bringing skin color into issues, prematurely!

Yes, there are many possibilities of who or why this happened, but you chose to focus on only one. Race is an extremely volatile issue and by bringing it prematurely it only makes it more volatile. IMHO all you have accomplished is to expose your prejudices.

I have confidence in my neighbors and friends that once the facts are known the community will support doing the right thing. If I didn't have that confidence in my community I wouldn't want to live there and wouldn't!


I didn't jump to conclusiions, but merely reacted to what the police said; it is a possible hate crime. They have reason to believe it was so, and with the rash of attacks against minorities who happen to look middle-eastern, as this victim does, and the suspect is a white male, as most of the suspects in the attacks on middle-eastern looking minorities have been, and firebombing has been used as weapons of terror against people (minorities included if not in particular), it is not much of a stretch to think we might be dealing with a hate crime here.

Yes, we do need to be careful about bringing race into this issue. People get victimized because of their race all the time.

My use of the other examples is to point out how something like this may not be such a stretch in Folsom. It may be an extreme case, but racism, like charity, starts at home.

As for the 'color blind' society, I am not so sure we want or need one. I think it's okay that we are of different races, and that we can recognize and celebrate those differences.

I can cop to the fact that we perhaps should wait on the results, because we may find otherwise. In much the same way as that Karr pervert was convicted in the media and by the public for Jon Benet's murder, and it turns out he's a sick freak, but did not kill Jon Benet.

I'll admit to being sensitive to any hint of racism, as I could go on for a lifetime telling you about my own experiences. I think minorities, due to their experiences, are much more likely to believe such crimes are race-related than white folks are.

So, I'm willing to let the cops do their thing.



QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Oct 9 2006, 02:14 PM) View Post

Even if this is a hate crime, I would be wary of painting all (or even most) Folsomites with the same brush as the perpetrator. I bet he will turn out to be someone with a past criminal record, possibly a nutcase, uneducated... a real loser--- hardly someone who is representative of mainstream Folsom. As you are fond of pointing out, there are a few nutcases and extremists everywhere you go: it doesn't mean the whole society is that way.


I did not attempt to paint all of Folsom with the same brush. If I felt you were all racists, I wouldn't live here.

As for the the perptrator's background, I'd be you are right. Where we differ is that there are probably more people like him in town than you realize. This town wasn't always Intel employees.

Steve Heard

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#37 Solartide

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 07:33 PM

Meh, In high school there were a lot of freshman who threw racist remarks and "chinese language-sounds" at me, but I laughed at them. Which made them angry.

#38 DalOwnerX3

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 09:47 PM

I wonder if the car had a 'No on Arena Tax' bumper sticker.
Just wondering.

#39 cw68

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 08:36 AM

QUOTE(DalOwnerX3 @ Oct 9 2006, 10:47 PM) View Post

I wonder if the car had a 'No on Arena Tax' bumper sticker.
Just wondering.

Where was Chad the evening of the crime??

#40 bishmasterb

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 08:47 AM

QUOTE(DalOwnerX3 @ Oct 9 2006, 10:47 PM) View Post

I wonder if the car had a 'No on Arena Tax' bumper sticker.
Just wondering.

smile.gif

One of the several reasons I keep my beliefs off of my bumper.

#41 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE(cw68 @ Oct 10 2006, 09:36 AM) View Post

Where was Chad the evening of the crime??


Out jogging!

#42 mylo

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Oct 10 2006, 11:11 AM) View Post

Out jogging!

I thought he was washing his van.
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#43 ESP Guy

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE(Buford T Justice @ Oct 9 2006, 01:41 PM) View Post



If the punk who did it knew who the owner of the car was, yes its a hate crime and race related. If the punk had no clue who owned the car and was doing random vandelism (gone very bad) then its not racial.




I hope I am missing something, but it looks like you are saying that if some one is aware of the race of some one, commits a crime against that person, its a hate crime and race related? Please tell me that I am missing something, because that is insane.
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#44 Steve Heard

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE(ESP Guy @ Oct 10 2006, 01:54 PM) View Post

I hope I am missing something, but it looks like you are saying that if some one is aware of the race of some one, commits a crime against that person, its a hate crime and race related? Please tell me that I am missing something, because that is insane.

I think what he is saying is that if the dangerous evil and cowardly criminal firebombed the victim's car because of her race, it is a hate crime.

If, on the other hand, the dangerous evil and cowardly criminal chose the house at random, it is only a dangerous evil and cowardly act.


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#45 Buford T Justice

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 03:32 PM

QUOTE(ESP Guy @ Oct 10 2006, 03:54 PM) View Post

I hope I am missing something, but it looks like you are saying that if some one is aware of the race of some one, commits a crime against that person, its a hate crime and race related? Please tell me that I am missing something, because that is insane.



Yes you are missing somthing. Let me restate it once again. If someone knows the victim- knows their race, does not like them - commits a crime against them - that'd be a racial crime - based on their hatred of that race.

If some one committed a crime - vandelism for example and had no clue who the owner was - then thats not a racial crime

...the key factor - pre-planned crime BASED on the person being comprimised

hope that helps clear things up. Not sure why you didn't get it the first time or think its insane.

QUOTE(stevethedad @ Oct 10 2006, 05:50 PM) View Post

I think what he is saying is that if the dangerous evil and cowardly criminal firebombed the victim's car because of her race, it is a hate crime.

If, on the other hand, the dangerous evil and cowardly criminal chose the house at random, it is only a dangerous evil and cowardly act.


Thats exactly what I meant - thanks Steve




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