219 replies to this topic

[Sibley Resident]

You have obviously either not read both threads regarding this issue if this is what you are introducing as a comparison to our neighborhood issues, or you will just never get it. Either way I'm not going to even justify this comparison with a response. Or the recommendations of the stop signs that are irrelevant with the volume of traffic we have.

[tony]

Sibley:

Congratulations on your success. I hope the 30-day closure doesn't backfire by creating a backlash from commuters, followed by a back-track by the council, leaving your neighborhood exactly where you were before. (although I don't agree that this is the solution, I certainly will not be leading the backlash). You mention that many options were looked at, and they certainly were. My concern for you is that, although many solutions were looked at, this is the first and only one to be tried, and without the input of anyone with expertise in traffic calming (no offense, Mark).

As for the Natoma Station residents trying to reach the HD during the closure hour, I would be remiss in my duties as an advocate for alternative transportation if I did not point out that bicycling is the fastest way to make this trip during these hours. And with Sibkley closed to traffic, it will be a much safer route as well, asssuming the closure is passable by bicyclists (Sibley, you made sure of that, didn't you?).

[Sibley Resident]

Thank you so much Tony, I hope it works they way we believe it will to. I know you disagree with this solution but I can't thank you enough for at least being willing to give it a try without fighting us on it. I know this could effect you considering where you live. Thank you so much. And of course there will be bicyclist and pedestrian access and it is going to be much safer during those hours.

[Orangetj]

QUOTE (tessieca @ Mar 30 2004, 09:31 AM)

That is not to say that something shouldn't be done about Sibley -- just that they've done the wrong thing. Many of you probably don't cut through Turnpike because it's got about 5 stop signs along the way, not because you're just so darned considerate. Those kinds of things should be considered by the city.

What would you recommend instead? Also, I don't cut through Turnpike for the same reason I don't cut through ANY residential area - it's inconsiderate and disrespectful to those who make that neighborhood their home. Heck, I didn't even know you had 5 stop signs on your street because I've never cut down it. Living near the intersection of two popular "shortcut" routes, Lembi and Sibley, I witness daily the thoughtlessness and disrespect of drivers who don't live in the surrounding neighborhood using these roads as their own personal expressways. I truly believe that through traffic belongs on main roads (i.e. Folsom, Riley, Glenn, Blue Ravine, etc.), even if those roads don't always get me where I'm going in the shortest possible time. "Residential" streets are just that - residential - as in they should be used primarily by those who are residents of the area. I guess we just philosphically disagree about what is appropriate use of residential streets and what isn't.

[bordercolliefan]

I second what Tessieca says.

I don't want to be acrimonious with our historic district friends -- believe me, I AM sympathetic to your issues and this thread has gone a long way to helping me understand how your quality of life has been affected. I just think a road closure is too drastic a solution. Moreover, while I personally can live with a 3 hour a day closure (since I generally don't use Sibley during those hours), I fear this a first step toward arguing for a total closure. 'Nuff said.

Tony, I always kind of snicker when I hear environmental or urban planning types talk about using bicycles. Yes, I rode a bicycle to work... back in the dark ages when I had no kids!!! Now I have a 3 and 5 year old . . . I tote them around, pick up and drop off from school, stop at the grocery store, take them to gymnastics... etc. etc. etc. I think a lot of people are like me -- carting around a bunch of kids, trying to get places on time all day long... My point is that bikeriding (and carpooling) are not practical for a lot of people, particularly those who have kids and kids' schedules to deal with. Also, I strongly believe that American companies have done more than anyone to make carpooling impractical: my husband has frequent 7 am meetings and never knows what time he'll be able to leave at the end of the day... I think if America wants to be serious about carpooling (not to mention family life), we should enforce a more uniform work day so employees are all on the same schedule. Sorry-- this is just a pet peeve of mine.

[Orangetj]

QUOTE (tessieca @ Mar 30 2004, 09:31 AM)

The streets in town were built and are maintained by the city. To close them off to some residents for the benefit of a few just doesn't seem right.

I'd say that to sacrifice the quality of life of an entire neighborhood for the benefit of those who want to use its streets as shortcuts doesn't seem right.

I applaud the city for having the courage to take action to protect the neighborhood.

[tony]

bordercolliefan: Yes, yes, of course alternative modes can't work for everybody. But kids sure are a convenient excuse. I have a 2 and 4 year old and still manage to bike to work almost 200 days per year, and take them to day care by bike almost 110 times (they only go 3 days per week). Our weekend forays to parks from Rancho Cordova to Empire Ranch are usually by bike, too. We save lots of money on car insurance, gas, maintenance and health club memberships as a result. And did I forget to mention that the kids get to see lots of wild life up close on their daily commute; today's list included trhee turkeys, a humming bird, several geese, mallards and coots, a hawk, several squirrels and thee dogs (not wild). All on their commute between the HD and Prairie Oaks. Yes, their mom still carts them around in the car most of the rest of the time, but for about 2000 miles per year, they ride in the comfort of their very own traveling caves (also known as Burley trailers). Believe me, it wasn't easy to figur out how to keep riding to work when the first one was born, and it was even tougher when the second one came along. But it's been well worth the effort. Don't let the kids stop you.

[bordercolliefan]

Are you riding on roads or trails?

I believe many parenting publications (such as the well-known "What to Expect..." books) say those little bike-pulled trailers aren't safe. Sounds like you don't agree??

[tony]

bordercolliefan: (sorry everybody else; this is off topic) 80-90% trails. You have to travel a little farther to find the safest routes, but those are not always trails (trails have their own hazards). I'm curious as to why these magazines suggest the trailers are not safe? personally, I believe they are mauch safer than child seats on the back of a bike; Inside the trailer (with a helmet and seat belts) they are well protected from anything except for a car, hence the avoidance of busy streets. The trailers are low and difficult (but not impossible) to tip, even if the bike falls over. That is my concern with child seats: if the parents falls, so does the child - about 4 feet. The down side of trailers, of course, is their size and weight; they require some skill to avoid hitting bollards and such (I've never hit one - knock, knock), but they whip you right into shape! I particularly like them bbecause the kids will often fall asleep, allowing me to ride farther. They also like them because they can read books, bring toys and tehir blankies, eat snacks, etc. while riding. manufacturers do not recommend use of trailers below the age of about 1 year, when they can solidly hold their head up with a halmet on, although people sometimes start earlier by putting the child in a car seat inside the trailer so they don't have to hold up their head and have even more protection (if it's good enough in a car at 70 mph, it should be good enough in a bike trailer at 12 mph).

[bordercolliefan]

Tony,

You are absolutely right. The parenting publications say that the trailers are safer than the bike seats, for exactly the reasons you state -- they are more stable, closer to the ground, etc. But these books emphasize staying away from busy roads -- for the common sense reason that a kid in a bike seat or bike trailer is not very well protected in an accident with a motor vehicle.

It sounds like you have developed a good, low-traffic route wherever you're going.

I was thinking of my own morning route along Blue Ravine, then Sibley or Riley, and then Natoma Street to the City Hall area and was thinking, "Thanks, but I think I'll keep my kids safely enmeshed in a 2,000 pound steel vehicle . . .!!!"

[tony]

border: Noting like a good challenge. Sounds like you essentially do my commute in reverse. Here's something to think about, keeping in mind that half of the reason for bike commuting is usually exercise: I don't know where on Blue Ravine you are starting, but anywhere between Riley and Prairie City you have access to the Humbug-Willow Creek Trail. You can take that to the Parkshore-Folsom Blvd. interesection and get on the E. Lake natoma Trail from Parkshore; from there you can stay on trails all the way to City Hall. It's about two miles farther than going straight down Sibley or Riley, but especially in the morning, it's a beautiful ride. The only safety issue with this route is crossing Folsom Blvd., but you can use the ped signal and cross in the crosswalk. If you give me more precise starting and ending points, I'd be happy to present a more refined route. Also, FYI, the city just put in a funding application to build a trail bridge over Folsom Blvd. just south off Parkshore. Plans are also underway to take the Humbug-Willow Creek Trail under Blue Ravine just west of Riley. That may be done by the end of the year. And, the city just let a contract to build a segment of trail from the Sibley UC to Russi and Blue Ravine so you don't haev to ride on teh sidewalk of the Sibley Bridge over the creek. Do you have a Folsom Bike Trail Map? They are in print or available on-line at the Parks and Rec web page.

[bordercolliefan]

Tony,

I had to go look at a map to see some of the places you are talking about. Yikes... if I had to ride that route lugging 80 pounds worth of kids behind me... it would take me about a week (and probably a detour to the hospital) to get there!! (I live way up on the hill in Natoma Station, so it's a good ride just to get to Blue Ravine).

Kudos to you that you are able to do this -- you must be incredibly fit.

I will say that my older daughter (5) just graduated to a two-wheeler (no training wheels), so I am looking forward to the possibility of actually going on family bike rides where everyone powers themselves! My husband tells me, however, that our local bike trails are no place for novice riders -- what with the super-riders racing by, the bike-pedestrian mix, etc. So, we may have to stick with just riding around our neighborhood sidewalks...

[tony]

bordercollie fan: It's not as far as it looks. As for fitness and 80 lbs of kids, that's why it's importtant to start dragging them around when they only weigh 25 or 30 lbs -- then you get stronger as they get heavier.. As for my fitness, to the level that I am fit, it is from bike commuting and dragging 120 lbs of children and trailers around. Fitter with every day of work.

Regarding chidren on the biek trails, see the Scene section in today's Bee. While I would agree with your husband in not recommending very small children on the major bike paths (the American River Parkway and the East Lake Natoma Trail), most of the rest of the trails in Folsom are very lightly used, even on weekends, and are perfectly appropriate for the training wheel set. And these less-used trails are a good environment in which to learn trail etiquette with very low risk. The Humbug-Willow Creek Trail (Sun Country Segment) just on teh other side of Blue Ravine from Natoma Station is a beautiful, very lightly used trail.

[bordercolliefan]

Thanks, I appreciate these suggestions.

[Terry]

Keep in mind that the article in today's Bee was pretty specific as to etiquette on the American River Parkway Biketrail, which is that joggers/peds stay to the left facing bikes who stay to the right (so they're facing each other in the same lane).

According to Folsom City trail boss Jim Konopka in a discussion a couple years ago, the East Lake Natoma Trail is a true multi-use trail and as such, all users stay to the right and peds use the asphalt pavement along with bikes and equestrian riders. On the East Lake Natoma Trail, bikes yield to all other users, and pedestrians yield to horse riders.

That's the difference between a multi-use trail (East Lake Natoma Trail) and a "biketrail" (American River Parkways Bike Trail).