147 replies to this topic

[mylo]

Granito's is in the Target shopping center, where Jennie's (Jenny's? Jeannie's?) Place (Chinese) used to be.

Palace

[Meyer Lemon]

With that said, Visconti's is the place to go for a good, traditional Italian meal with lots of red sauce and cheese. Granito's menu strays quite a bit from traditional Italian into more stylized dishes. They don't even have lasagna. But they have some great dishes.

Good Grief! Folsom, while I may weep for you, I now have no question as to why you have the restaurants you have, and why quality restaurateurs will continue to avoid this area.

Many of you know food and restaurants. Your posts make this very clear. But for restaurants, it comes down to a numbers game: are there enough people in this area to support a great restaurant? Posts like this one make the answer abundantly clear: NO!

Redman, if I read this right, you are saying that the solitary act of adding lasagna will make a restaurant “Italian,” and that without the dish, a restaurant forfeits its chance to be so designated. This is one of the most fantastic (I would use another, far less neutral term in private) statements I have ever read. Ristorante Quartino in Chicago does not have lasagna. So, by Redman’s thinking, it cannot be Italian. Nor can any of Mario Batali’s restaurants in New York be Italian, as they lack lasagna as well. I guess A16 in San Francisco, home of the James Beard Award Winner for Best New Chef, Nate Appleman, is not Italian, as there is no lasagna to be found. It will come as a major shock to Dona Scala to learn her Napa Valley restaurant, Bistro Don Giovanni, is no longer Italian until she adds the layered pasta.

It is this sort of provincial, if not downright rural, thinking that ran Bradley Ogden and Angelo Aurimi out of this area, and why Folsom’s lone home-grown talent, Mark Lieberman, left in a huff. Folsomites who know and care about food, I am sorry. But it is the silliness and close-minded, preconceived, cow town mentality of Redman and others that has you all arguing about whether such downright holes as Visconti’s and Granito’s provide the best Italian meals. In truth, neither of them provide anything worth remarking upon. They are about as Italian as a can of Chef Boy-Ar-Dee Spaghetti-O's, which is apparently how Redman was introduced to "Italian" food, and doubtless his/her method for creating another generation of clueless Redmen/women, all wondering "where's the freaking lasagna?"

[4thgenFolsomite]

Good Grief! Folsom, while I may weep for you, I now have no question as to why you have the restaurants you have, and why quality restaurateurs will continue to avoid this area.

Many of you know food and restaurants. Your posts make this very clear. But for restaurants, it comes down to a numbers game: are there enough people in this area to support a great restaurant? Posts like this one make the answer abundantly clear: NO!

Redman, if I read this right, you are saying that the solitary act of adding lasagna will make a restaurant “Italian,” and that without the dish, a restaurant forfeits its chance to be so designated. This is one of the most fantastic (I would use another, far less neutral term in private) statements I have ever read. Ristorante Quartino in Chicago does not have lasagna. So, by Redman’s thinking, it cannot be Italian. Nor can any of Mario Batali’s restaurants in New York be Italian, as they lack lasagna as well. I guess A16 in San Francisco, home of the James Beard Award Winner for Best New Chef, Nate Appleman, is not Italian, as there is no lasagna to be found. It will come as a major shock to Dona Scala to learn her Napa Valley restaurant, Bistro Don Giovanni, is no longer Italian until she adds the layered pasta.

It is this sort of provincial, if not downright rural, thinking that ran Bradley Ogden and Angelo Aurimi out of this area, and why Folsom’s lone home-grown talent, Mark Lieberman, left in a huff. Folsomites who know and care about food, I am sorry. But it is the silliness and close-minded, preconceived, cow town mentality of Redman and others that has you all arguing about whether such downright holes as Visconti’s and Granito’s provide the best Italian meals. In truth, neither of them provide anything worth remarking upon. They are about as Italian as a can of Chef Boy-Ar-Dee Spaghetti-O's, which is apparently how Redman was introduced to "Italian" food, and doubtless his/her method for creating another generation of clueless Redmen/women, all wondering "where's the freaking lasagna?"

I think the difference here is you are describing Italian and most of the posts are describing Italian American.


as for Granitos, we tried it once and were shocked at how bad it was. We gave them another chance two weeks ago, just in case it was an off-day and were equally shocked. empty dining room and poorly seasoned disappointing food. meyer lemon's description of the remorse and disgust of hitting a skunk is pretty close to the mark, if just a tad extreme. we won't be back and that's too bad.

[Meyer Lemon]

I think the difference here is you are describing Italian and most of the posts are describing Italian American.as for Granitos, we tried it once and were shocked at how bad it was.  We gave them another chance two weeks ago, just in case it was an off-day and were equally shocked.  empty dining room and poorly seasoned disappointing food.  meyer lemon's description of the remorse and disgust of hitting a skunk is pretty close to the mark, if just a tad extreme.  we won't be back and that's too bad.

You are correct in that I am describing Italian. But, with respect, NONE of the posters are making the distinction (see provincial remark in my post). That is bad enough, but it is the restaurants that are the enabling the farce to continue. Visconti's, ON ITS WEBSITE, calls itself "Folsom Italian Restaurant." Granito's describes itself on its website and its freaking FRONT DOOR as "Fine Italian Food." Good grief!

The blind leading the blind? Giving the people what they want? So sad, so sad...

Before I am accused of channeling Howard Beale, as I have said before, great Italian food can be had. But not in this area. Be prepared to drive. If food is your driving force, you just can't eat at the places around here. They take your money and waste your time.

[Dave Burrell]

Ristorante Quartino in Chicago does not have lasagna. So, by Redman's thinking, it cannot be Italian. Nor can any of Mario Batali's restaurants in New York be Italian, as they lack lasagna as well. I guess A16 in San Francisco, home of the James Beard Award Winner for Best New Chef, Nate Appleman, is not Italian, as there is no lasagna to be found. It will come as a major shock to Dona Scala to learn her Napa Valley restaurant, Bistro Don Giovanni, is no longer Italian until she adds the layered pasta.

Those places are probably too pricey for most residents here. If you can find a chef/restaurant to cook on that level and at the same time keep prices around $8-18 a plate they would do well here, but even with great quality dishes, high prices will keep places like that from succeeding in Folsom, the income in this town is not as high as it is in the bay area, Napa or New York. Folsom is a semi rural town, it is what it is.

It is this sort of provincial, if not downright rural, thinking that ran Bradley Ogden and Angelo Aurimi out of this area, and why Folsom's lone home-grown talent, Mark Lieberman, left in a huff. Folsomites who know and care about food, I am sorry. But it is the silliness and close-minded, preconceived, cow town mentality of Redman and others that has you all arguing about whether such downright holes as Visconti's and Granito's provide the best Italian meals. In truth, neither of them provide anything worth remarking upon. They are about as Italian as a can of Chef Boy-Ar-Dee Spaghetti-O's, which is apparently how Redman was introduced to "Italian" food, and doubtless his/her method for creating another generation of clueless Redmen/women, all wondering "where's the freaking lasagna?"

Where do you live because I have never seen or heard about any of those chef's doing anything anywhere near Folsom but I'd be interested in finding out where they had owned or worked in restaurants around here.

Keep in mind, it costs a lot of money to take a family out dining these days, it's much more expensive then just a couple going out on the town

[4thgenFolsomite]

You are correct in that I am describing Italian. But, with respect, NONE of the posters are making the distinction (see provincial remark in my post). That is bad enough, but it is the restaurants that are the enabling the farce to continue. Visconti's, ON ITS WEBSITE, calls itself "Folsom Italian Restaurant." Granito's describes itself on its website and its freaking FRONT DOOR as "Fine Italian Food." Good grief!

The blind leading the blind? Giving the people what they want? So sad, so sad...

Before I am accused of channeling Howard Beale, as I have said before, great Italian food can be had. But not in this area. Be prepared to drive. If food is your driving force, you just can't eat at the places around here. They take your money and waste your time.

yes, its true. there is nothing authentic around here, but sometimes people want pasta for dinner without cooking, so you eat what's available.

now my favorite italian is a little place called piccino in the dogpatch of potrero hill. the owner is from Lucca and she has a very light touch, which I like. A49 can be a little disappointing sometimes, like their occassional all pork menu, etc.

[redman]

But it is the silliness and close-minded, preconceived, cow town mentality of Redman and others that has you all arguing about whether such downright holes as Visconti’s and Granito’s provide the best Italian meals. In truth, neither of them provide anything worth remarking upon. They are about as Italian as a can of Chef Boy-Ar-Dee Spaghetti-O's, which is apparently how Redman was introduced to "Italian" food, and doubtless his/her method for creating another generation of clueless Redmen/women, all wondering "where's the freaking lasagna?"

My last comment before leaving this thread because you guys are FAR to extreme about this subject for my tastes... damn if you are this passionate about your palettes then why the heck don't you just move to SF? Why slum it up with us Folsomites? Sheesh.

Anyway, I mentioned lasagna as an example, nothing more. I don't require an Italian restaurant to have lasagna, but what I'm really saying about Granitos is that they don't focus on the dishes that us (obviously ignorant) Americans associate with Italian.

I think Visconti's is a good restaurant. Does it represent the level of Italian food you get in SF, or Italy for that matter? No, not even close. But it's good food made by a non-chain restaurant run by real Italians. If you don't like it, that's fine, but please don't bash it like it's a major chain like Olive Garden or Macaroni Grill. At least it's a unique business that tries to survive, and we have far too few of those here in Folsom.

And before you judge me any further, I want to point out that I generally despise the big chains, and my wife and I avoid them like the plague. Unfortunately, many Folsomites love them, and therein lies the REAL problem in this town. Thankfully we have a few good independently owned restaurants, in particular Bidwell St Bistro, that make me happy to live here.

Oh, and I've been to Italy, and I know the difference between REAL Italian and American Italian. I know Italians don't eat lasagne every day, or even pasta and red sauce, and I know what a real pizza is like. That's not even what this thread is about. But go ahead and put me in a box with everyone else based on a few sentences in my post, and stand on your high horse. I really don't care.

[4thgenFolsomite]

My last comment before leaving this thread because you guys are FAR to extreme about this subject for my tastes... damn if you are this passionate about your palettes then why the heck don't you just move to SF? Why slum it up with us Folsomites? Sheesh.

Anyway, I mentioned lasagna as an example, nothing more. I don't require an Italian restaurant to have lasagna, but what I'm really saying about Granitos is that they don't focus on the dishes that us (obviously ignorant) Americans associate with Italian.

I think Visconti's is a good restaurant. Does it represent the level of Italian food you get in SF, or Italy for that matter? No, not even close. But it's good food made by a non-chain restaurant run by real Italians. If you don't like it, that's fine, but please don't bash it like it's a major chain like Olive Garden or Macaroni Grill. At least it's a unique business that tries to survive, and we have far too few of those here in Folsom.

And before you judge me any further, I want to point out that I generally despise the big chains, and my wife and I avoid them like the plague. Unfortunately, many Folsomites love them, and therein lies the REAL problem in this town. Thankfully we have a few good independently owned restaurants, in particular Bidwell St Bistro, that make me happy to live here.

Oh, and I've been to Italy, and I know the difference between REAL Italian and American Italian. I know Italians don't eat lasagne every day, or even pasta and red sauce, and I know what a real pizza is like. That's not even what this thread is about. But go ahead and put me in a box with everyone else based on a few sentences in my post, and stand on your high horse. I really don't care.

very well said

[Folsom4evr]

My last comment before leaving this thread because you guys are FAR to extreme about this subject for my tastes... damn if you are this passionate about your palettes then why the heck don't you just move to SF? Why slum it up with us Folsomites? Sheesh.

Anyway, I mentioned lasagna as an example, nothing more. I don't require an Italian restaurant to have lasagna, but what I'm really saying about Granitos is that they don't focus on the dishes that us (obviously ignorant) Americans associate with Italian.

I think Visconti's is a good restaurant. Does it represent the level of Italian food you get in SF, or Italy for that matter? No, not even close. But it's good food made by a non-chain restaurant run by real Italians. If you don't like it, that's fine, but please don't bash it like it's a major chain like Olive Garden or Macaroni Grill. At least it's a unique business that tries to survive, and we have far too few of those here in Folsom.

And before you judge me any further, I want to point out that I generally despise the big chains, and my wife and I avoid them like the plague. Unfortunately, many Folsomites love them, and therein lies the REAL problem in this town. Thankfully we have a few good independently owned restaurants, in particular Bidwell St Bistro, that make me happy to live here.

Oh, and I've been to Italy, and I know the difference between REAL Italian and American Italian. I know Italians don't eat lasagne every day, or even pasta and red sauce, and I know what a real pizza is like. That's not even what this thread is about. But go ahead and put me in a box with everyone else based on a few sentences in my post, and stand on your high horse. I really don't care.

Well said! This is simply a thread about two Folsom restaurants and which is better. Not how dumb we all are for liking them over some overpriced pasta house in Napa and how we personally have pissed off every chef in the world.
Folsom is a suburb not a $30 a plate city.

[mylo]

FOOD FIGHT!!!!

[Dave Burrell]

Well said! This is simply a thread about two Folsom restaurants and which is better. Not how dumb we all are for liking them over some overpriced pasta house in Napa and how we personally have pissed off every chef in the world.
Folsom is a suburb not a $30 a plate city.

Bingo! well said!

[Meyer Lemon]

Folsom is a semi rural town, it is what it is.



Where do you live because I have never seen or heard about any of those chef's doing anything anywhere near Folsom but I'd be interested in finding out where they had owned or worked in restaurants around here.

This is, among other reasons, why your choices for "Italian" food are Visconti's and Granito's. But I would argue that either restaurant would be a community embarassment were they in Buzzard Breath , Wyoming or Chickisaw, Oklahoma. EVERYONE deserves better.

Also, Brad Ogden (Lark Creek Inn, Bradley Ogden's in Caesar's Palace; James Beard Awaed Winner) was at Birch Creek in Roseville until it folded. Angelo (Valentino's in LA) was at Masque in EDH until it imploded. He is now at Emporio Rulli in SF. Folsom High graduate Lieberman was at the late Savoy 614. He bolted for Las Vegas, but not without a last jab at his hometown to Mike Dunne at the Bee.

[4thgenFolsomite]

This is, among other reasons, why your choices for "Italian" food are Visconti's and Granito's. But I would argue that either restaurant would be a community embarassment were they in Buzzard Breath , Wyoming or Chickisaw, Oklahoma. EVERYONE deserves better.

Also, Brad Ogden (Lark Creek Inn, Bradley Ogden's in Caesar's Palace; James Beard Awaed Winner) was at Birch Creek in Roseville until it folded. Angelo (Valentino's in LA) was at Masque in EDH until it imploded. He is now at Emporio Rulli in SF. Folsom High graduate Lieberman was at the late Savoy 614. He bolted for Las Vegas, but not without a last jab at his hometown to Mike Dunne at the Bee.

well, judging by the anger of some of the previous posts, I'd say you made significant progress on wearing out your welcome today! Its still great to see a new "face" and you definately are waking up the regular posters. good for you!

This certainly isn't Napa Valley, Las Vegas or SF, but it isn't meant to be. We're basically a suburban bedroom community, but restaurants are still supported. I would add that some of the restaurants you mentioned above were victims to the recession. You need a large population to draw from to keep your doors open when your entrees start at $16 and go up from there. Masque had other issues as well. And as for Savoy 614, we loved it and ate there often, mostly because we loved Charles. Lieberman, I believe, was the last chef there. Nice guy, but his food was heavy. Not every one wants to eat sweet breads or other rich foods more than occassionally. Now if Cindy Pawlcyn opened a restaurant in Folsom or EDH or Roseville for that matter, I think her lighter cooking style would be a complete success. that said, I love meyer lemons! they are the bomb with fish and make the best tarts!

[Meyer Lemon]

I would add that some of the restaurants you mentioned above were victims to the recession.

Now if Cindy Pawlcyn opened a restaurant in Folsom or EDH or Roseville for that matter, I think her lighter cooking style would be a complete success. that said, I love meyer lemons! they are the bomb with fish and make the best tarts!

Birch Creek closed in 2002. Masque imploded (I chose my word carefully) in 2005. Savoy 614 bit the dust in 2003. All well before the recession (unless you apply the Intel argument to Savoy).

Cindy Pawlcyn coming to this area? With the track record here for not supporting quality, and Visconti's and Granito's being the "Italian" alternatives, you are more likely to be struck by lightning. In a house you won from Ed McMahon.

[4thgenFolsomite]

Birch Creek closed in 2002. Masque imploded (I chose my word carefully) in 2005. Savoy 614 bit the dust in 2003. All well before the recession (unless you apply the Intel argument to Savoy).

Cindy Pawlcyn coming to this area? With the track record here for not supporting quality, and Visconti's and Granito's being the "Italian" alternatives, you are more likely to be struck by lightning. In a house you won from Ed McMahon.

check the news clips from those early 2000s and you will see that there was an economic downturn that resulted in several higher end restaurants closing in the region. I'm not talking about the most recent recession that has hit even the most inexpensive of restaurants. And I didn't mean Pawlcyn was coming, just that her style of food would probably fare better here. She obviously wouldn't come because this isn't her market. Plus, she's got her hands full in fun places to live. Why come here to the heat of the valley frying pan?