171 replies to this topic

[Soonerborn]

Might want to check the MOU again [Appendix E-4, signed 5/7/10]. The 3 days appear to be student days.

Thank you for clarify for one of our board members what actually would happen! I would hope people remember that it is the board who prioritizes how the district's money is spent, not the union. In a time where there are financial difficulties, many teachers find it hard to swallow that our new sup. is being given guaranteed raises for several years! --

[sckfc]

Looking at what could have been saved by 3 more furlough days, I am disappointed that the union did not accept that offer. Those are a LOT of jobs saved, and the jobs saved definitely would improve education in this district. IMO, the middle school electives and CSR to 25 (instead of 32) would make a BIG difference in student learning--both performance and motivation.

I teach at Sac State and in the 09-10 school year we took 18 furlough days, which amounted to a 10% pay cut. We did it to improve the educational experience of the students we teach and to save colleagues' jobs. I am disappointed that our teachers' union did not step up on this one....they were asked to take 1/3 of what higher ed took and they still didn't budge. I'm sad and disappointed in their leadership.

If the State Employees have to take a 15% cut in pay, I really don't understand why all of the district employees should not take a 3% cut. Most people are living with a 10-15% cut in wages right now. My family has survived with the 15% reduction and I would be happy to take a 3% cut in my pay to save my kids education and possibly still have a job with FCUSD. I really am more concerned with my kids' education than my job. 6 furlough days a year would be nothing. For a teacher making $70,000 per year it would be a $2100 cut for the year or $175 per month. A state employee that is making $70,000 a year is taking a reduction in pay of $10,500 per year or $875 per month. I think 3% is manageble and fair.

[cw68]

Official response to Mr. Godwin's Budget Update:

When health care costs go up, our contract does not provide for automatic coverage increases. Those increases are passed on by the school district directly onto the members of our association, and have been for quite some time.

Um, yeah, that's how it works for most people because that's what makes the most financial sense. Is it really expected that the members of the union are supposed to be untouchable and the district is supposed to absorb all the hits?

I wish we could just get rid of the teacher's union. It's overstayed its welcome and, IMO, is just hurting the state of education in the name of doing what's fair. That's BS. It's doing what keeps it powerful. I don't know a single friend who is, or was, a teacher who truly likes the teacher's union. They generally state that the bad teachers are the ones who want/support the union and the good teachers don't. They know they'd continue to do well by working hard, doing a good job and the like.

[The Average Joe]

I wonder how many jobs would be saved by increasing health copay, freezing any pay increases, and a 5% cut in pay across the board. How many programs would be saved? How many great things could schools do if teachers switched to a defined contribution rather than a defined benefit?
Everyone (other than politicians and attorneys) is dealing with reduced pay/hours/opportunities and increased costs for health care, not to mention no sniff of defined benefit retirement for ANYONE in private sector.
It's time for teachers to understand that a 3 day furlough is close to a hollow gesture given the unfunded liabilities their unions have extorted from the legislature. Has anyone been paying attention to Greece? We are on our way, and public employee unions are leading the charge. I sure don't see any positive outcome for students or the taxpayer as their union bankrupts the state.
I like teachers, and I think it is a great job, but when they moan about how bad they have it, it just tells me they need a reality check.

And Joanne, please don't even consider using federal funds to "save" jobs. That is a short-sighted approach at best and does NOTHING to address the fundamental issues our state education system (as well as local) faces. Address the root of the problems...
Where is the money going? We are spending more than ever and getting less and less...

And for those that think this district is underpaid, CA has the highest pay for teachers in the nation...so you are still in the top tier...AND you get to teach in Folsom...

[sckfc]

I wonder how many jobs would be saved by increasing health copay, freezing any pay increases, and a 5% cut in pay across the board. How many programs would be saved? How many great things could schools do if teachers switched to a defined contribution rather than a defined benefit?
Everyone (other than politicians and attorneys) is dealing with reduced pay/hours/opportunities and increased costs for health care, not to mention no sniff of defined benefit retirement for ANYONE in private sector.
It's time for teachers to understand that a 3 day furlough is close to a hollow gesture given the unfunded liabilities their unions have extorted from the legislature. Has anyone been paying attention to Greece? We are on our way, and public employee unions are leading the charge. I sure don't see any positive outcome for students or the taxpayer as their union bankrupts the state.
I like teachers, and I think it is a great job, but when they moan about how bad they have it, it just tells me they need a reality check.

And Joanne, please don't even consider using federal funds to "save" jobs. That is a short-sighted approach at best and does NOTHING to address the fundamental issues our state education system (as well as local) faces. Address the root of the problems...
Where is the money going? We are spending more than ever and getting less and less...

And for those that think this district is underpaid, CA has the highest pay for teachers in the nation...so you are still in the top tier...AND you get to teach in Folsom...

[mac_convert]

Me too.
Knowing this I won't vote for the TA.

Joanne could you PM me the 6 day offer w/out pay freeze and I'll take it to my staff and meeting? The more official the document the better.

Looking at what could have been saved by 3 more furlough days, I am disappointed that the union did not accept that offer. Those are a LOT of jobs saved, and the jobs saved definitely would improve education in this district. IMO, the middle school electives and CSR to 25 (instead of 32) would make a BIG difference in student learning--both performance and motivation.

I teach at Sac State and in the 09-10 school year we took 18 furlough days, which amounted to a 10% pay cut. We did it to improve the educational experience of the students we teach and to save colleagues' jobs. I am disappointed that our teachers' union did not step up on this one....they were asked to take 1/3 of what higher ed took and they still didn't budge. I'm sad and disappointed in their leadership.

[nomad]

What just amazes me is this attitude the teachers (or their union really) have that they are untouchable and should not have to face any type of concessions or give up anything during time like these.

Reagan did a good job of union busting in his time, too bad he didn't crack the teachers union.

[rightwingknot]

Before throwing the baby out with the bathwater, please keep in mind the reason why teacher unions exist. I fully agree that the state and national organizations have morphed into what I believe is a political beast that has strayed very far from its primary purpose of why it exists.

However, at the local level, in the districts, teacher unions are not only necessary, but a vital part of the local education system. A good explanation on this can be found HERE, by Diane Ravitch. While hers is a view from New York, much of her opinion can be applied to education in general. She was once the leading cheerleader for NCLB, but since has had an awakening to the destructive, corporate-like approach to educational policy, which she outlines in her recent book The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice Are Undermining Education.

As she puts it:

The union is thus necessary as a protection for teachers against the arbitrary exercise of power by heavy-handed administrators. In our school systems, as in our city, state, and federal governments, we need checks and balances. Just as the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government all act as checks on each other, we need checks and balances in our school systems. It is unwise to centralize all power in one person: the mayor. We need independent lay school boards to hire the superintendent and to hold open public discussions of administrative decisions, and we need independent teacher unions to assure that teachers’ rights are protected, to sound the alarm against unwise policies, and to advocate on behalf of sound education policies, especially when administrators are non-educators.

Her key point is that many administrators (and principals) are non-educators. While I believe that many of our current principals and administrators have education backgrounds, presently, we have a very strong centralized superintendent who has wielded an unwavering heavy fist against the local teachers, flaunting existing education code and time and again fighting in court rather than seeking agreement with local teachers. He backs his principals even when their actions have been declared wrong by arbitrators. It would seem, it's more about him being right, than doing what's right when it comes to dealing with teachers.

We have yet to see how Mrs. Bettencourt will approach her new duties. It is my hope that it is more cooperative, not combative as is presently the case.

Either way, while I strongly oppose much of what the state and national unions do, local teacher unions are a necessary and vital part of our system.

[JoAnne Reinking]

And Joanne, please don't even consider using federal funds to "save" jobs. That is a short-sighted approach at best and does NOTHING to address the fundamental issues our state education system (as well as local) faces. Address the root of the problems...
Where is the money going? We are spending more than ever and getting less and less...

Here's the reason behind the hope of federal funds~ support for education jobs
http://www.govtrack....amp;tab=summary

[The Average Joe]

I am aware of the bill. And what happens when those funds aren't continued or renewed? We are right back in the same position we are now. It may help today, but it still doesn't address the reasons we are where we are nor does it offer any hope of addressing the issues so that the future will be better...

Imagine this scenario...I buy a house that I cannot afford by using a loan with a progressively increasing payment. At some point, the payment becomes more than I can afford, and I have to cut out extras, get a better paying job, or find a different house. Instead of doing any of those things, I feel badly for he gardener, cleaning lady, pest service and alarm company that will lose jobs because I cancel them, so instead, I get 3 months loan payment from my place of employment as a "bonus."
I keep all my employed service people happy, but at the end of the three months, i am right back where I started....and my employer is expecting more from me...DOH!

I stand by my previous statement. Shortsighted at best.

[teach]

Teachers are getting some very unfair blame. It's not our fault that middle school electives were cut. I think it's sad that our Superintendent chose to vilify teachers. If you look around at other districts then you'll see our teachers have given up more than most!

The secretary to the Superintendent makes 50% more than the highest paid teacher. Why on earth is she making $122,000? Before you blame teachers, come into our rooms and see how busy we are, and then walk up to the district office and look around.

[teach]

Looking at what could have been saved by 3 more furlough days, I am disappointed that the union did not accept that offer. Those are a LOT of jobs saved, and the jobs saved definitely would improve education in this district. IMO, the middle school electives and CSR to 25 (instead of 32) would make a BIG difference in student learning--both performance and motivation.

I teach at Sac State and in the 09-10 school year we took 18 furlough days, which amounted to a 10% pay cut. We did it to improve the educational experience of the students we teach and to save colleagues' jobs. I am disappointed that our teachers' union did not step up on this one....they were asked to take 1/3 of what higher ed took and they still didn't budge. I'm sad and disappointed in their leadership.

My mother also teaches at CSUS. The furloughs hurt student learning. She couldn't so much as reply to an email on her furlough days. This certainly didn't help student. If anything, they need to close some of the colleges.

[sunnyCA]

My mother also teaches at CSUS. The furloughs hurt student learning. She couldn't so much as reply to an email on her furlough days. This certainly didn't help student. If anything, they need to close some of the colleges.

Well...for the vast majority of us, furloughs were taken on non-teaching days. I took 2 teaching days out of the entire semester: the day before spring break and the day after. Honestly, attendance is so low those two days that they were not missed. I highly doubt that missing those days would call for the closing of some of the colleges. Really....?!??!

And, while yes, technically you are not supposed to answer emails on that furlough day, you could not cluster the days (other than once a school year). So, while you might be furloughed and not replying to email on a Monday, you were back on Tuesday. It is virtually impossible in academia that a student question is SO pressing that it could not be answered the following day, especially when the day of the question there is no class meeting anyway.

And, yes, the furloughs did help students.

The funds saved by furloughs added HUNDREDS of sections of classes. Those classes are needed by the students to keep financial aid and to complete degree requirements.

The furloughs saved the jobs of all those faculty who taught them.

They kept class sizes lower because I can guarantee you, if they had cancelled all of those sections (because there had been no furloughs), the sections that remained would have been completely overloaded because my colleagues and I would have felt awful turning away seniors who needed the class for graduation, etc. So, yes, teaching 25 students in a writing intensive (40-50 typed pages of writing per student) provides a MUCH better experience for those students (and the prof) than teaching 50 in the same class.

Yes, each class taught met slightly less than usual, but I know that I and most all of my colleagues worked diligently to minimize the effects of those on students.

Are furloughs ideal? No. But, in this budget, they were a temporary way to deal with a major challenge. Student learning may have been slightly hurt in this situation, but without the furloughs that learning would have been seriously injured.

[JoAnne Reinking]

The secretary to the Superintendent makes 50% more than the highest paid teacher. Why on earth is she making $122,000? Before you blame teachers, come into our rooms and see how busy we are, and then walk up to the district office and look around.

For the record~ that position and title has now been changed with a reduction in salary. Part of the new Supt. reorganization.

[stacycam]

If you look around at other districts then you'll see our teachers have given up more than most!

I'm not familiar with this. Thus fair I haven't really heard what the teachers have given up. Can you please explain?