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South Of 50 Annexation


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#31 Darth Lefty

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 06:39 AM

QUOTE (c_vanderveen @ Aug 2 2010, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
put an arena there. An arena for the Kings.

Why not just tear down the current one and put it there? Suburban arenas in this part of the world sit above the scenery like massive warts. No need to add more of them. Arco is pretty bad but a newer, bigger one I'm sure would be even worse than that thing in Glendale AZ



And guess who would pay for it?
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#32 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 06:55 AM

QUOTE (Darth Lefty @ Aug 3 2010, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why not just tear down the current one and put it there? Suburban arenas in this part of the world sit above the scenery like massive warts. No need to add more of them. Arco is pretty bad but a newer, bigger one I'm sure would be even worse than that thing in Glendale AZ



And guess who would pay for it?


I was kidding. wink.gif

#33 harrmill

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 07:55 AM

QUOTE (old soldier @ Aug 3 2010, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
what about if it became a problem selling property because of the planes flying over south of 50 and the developers asked the council to change the route to have the planes fly over old folsom...remember developers rule...


Quite true. Also, what if people bought homes there and then the activity at Mather increased from what was advertised? Would that suppress prices? I recall from the previous time Mather was an issue that the FAA as a rule does not re-route the landing patterns of airports - they dont want to push the problem into someone else's area.

Somehow I doubt this issue will be addressed until people are in their new homes and start complaining.

For a good example of what can happen, see Reid-Hillview airport in San Jose - they purposely built it out there in the orchards in the 1940s and now it is surrounded by homes and businesses. People knew they were moving next to an airport, but lo and behold, today residents are trying to close it down.

Isn't Aerojet a Superfund site? I know they have monitoring wells in the area, but I would think that would be something that may keep people from buying there.

I am sorry I missed the meeting last night.

#34 magahai

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:07 AM

inconjunction with the recent news regarding salaries of public servants...are the wages/benefits/pensions/political affiliations of Folsom's civil servants available for viewing?

#35 tgianco

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:43 AM

QUOTE (harrmill @ Aug 3 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite true. Also, what if people bought homes there and then the activity at Mather increased from what was advertised? Would that suppress prices? I recall from the previous time Mather was an issue that the FAA as a rule does not re-route the landing patterns of airports - they dont want to push the problem into someone else's area.

Somehow I doubt this issue will be addressed until people are in their new homes and start complaining.

For a good example of what can happen, see Reid-Hillview airport in San Jose - they purposely built it out there in the orchards in the 1940s and now it is surrounded by homes and businesses. People knew they were moving next to an airport, but lo and behold, today residents are trying to close it down.

Isn't Aerojet a Superfund site? I know they have monitoring wells in the area, but I would think that would be something that may keep people from buying there.

I am sorry I missed the meeting last night.

You bring up a good point... I think. Will this new area be a part of 95630 or will it have its own new zip code. Since I would guess that this new area would offer plenty of lower-income housing (not saying the hood, but lower-income compared to the rest of Folsom plus the requirements to have a low-income housing component), that would probably lower the desireability of the 95630 zip code if this area shared the same zip code.

It may seem like a nit-picky question, but, in the long run, I think it's a very important question. Give it a new zip code.
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#36 Inwit

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:13 AM

QUOTE (magahai @ Aug 3 2010, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
inconjunction with the recent news regarding salaries of public servants...are the wages/benefits/pensions/political affiliations of Folsom's civil servants available for viewing?

Try this Topic
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#37 Steve Heard

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 04:28 PM

QUOTE (harrmill @ Aug 3 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am sorry I missed the meeting last night.

Presentation tonight at the Park and Rec meeting. 630p

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#38 supermom

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:18 PM

Steve-these are my questions after going to meeting tonight.

1. Why only 2 fire stations? Seems that with the amount of wooded area being set aside-the density of housing beside thses areas-it would make sense to worry about even 1 pyro living in folsom.

2. Where in that pretty map is there a zoning for industrial growth? 20 years after the developement- how else will the area sustain itself if it is only a bedroom community?

3. I am interest in the projected types of parks. Dog park? Tennis courts? Baseball,softball bike and skateboard parks? Water features?

4. I find it odd they put the middle and highschool oon the outer edge of the soi. Why? Will those students share the highschool with a different community?.

There was a great deal of conversation that mentioned LAFCO. What does lafco mean?

The two main throughfares to run east and west-planned 4 lane roads....I would like to see wide (20 foot) islands in the middle. Tree lined. Planners seem to be focusing on parks as the only green havens in the community. It is always nice to have a greenbelt drive as part of your commute.

Also, the city community area seems rather vague. My understaning is that there is a wish to move the pd headquarters out of the building it is in now- and move to the soi area.
Also-won't a whole new area need a library?
Wouldn't it be nice to nix the planned mall and get a convention center with a proper dance and drama consortium added to the city? (I would love to not have to drive to downtown sac to see balllet.

As for city enhancements-this would be a great time to add a tripple a ball field to our cities sight seeing lists..


#39 harrmill

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:06 AM

QUOTE (supermom @ Aug 3 2010, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4. I find it odd they put the middle and highschool oon the outer edge of the soi. Why? Will those students share the highschool with a different community?.

There was a great deal of conversation that mentioned LAFCO. What does lafco mean?


Beach-head for further development to the south, methinks.

LAFCO = Local Agency Formation Commission - a group formed to help the planning and setting of boundaries for new development. FWIW - there is a Wikipedia article on it.

Another thing I thought of with at least the western part of the property is proximity to the MX park - will the new homeowners be at odds with events held there? I can sometimes hear buzzing of mosquitoes at the park from my part of S. Folsom - does not bother me, but there is a reason the park is located AWAY from town.

One other point I must share. There are several examples of South of 50 new development that may or may not be good examples of what to do - Capitol Center on Zinfandel, and Anatolia on S. Sunrise. I know that when Anatolia was built the homeowners were promised shopping and services that did not initially materialize and they faced long drives to Folsom Blvd, or Folsom itself to run errands. Capitol Center has attempted some higher-density housing and retail. What can be learned from those?


#40 valdossjoyce

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 01:02 PM

"It's not like anyone could stop it. It's going to happen sometime."

Of course it will. That train left the station a long time ago. A little history:

Several years ago there was a grass-roots movement to put an initiative on the ballot that would give Folsom voters the chance to vote on any development plan for this area. The measure qualified for the ballot (that was a lot of signature gathering without paid gatherers) but then some Folsomite friends of developers took us to court and got our initiative declared invalid. Then these friends of developers came up with their own ballot initiative which the city council passed, and didn't need signatures to get on the ballot. Many voters were hoodwinked into believing this was the original ballot measure. This one was passed. It does not require a vote to approve a development plan, but does incorporate some requirements dealing with water supply, open space, etc. We would not have even gotten these concessions had our initiative not been passed by the people.

The annexation application is going according to the city council's plan. When the economy is suitable, development will start. Everything is legally in place. Not only will it be too late to do anything later, it is already too late now.

Oh, as for why the city wants more development, city government feeds off of development fees. Rapid growth of our existing city boundaries kept city hall filled with employees and funded city services that should have been paid for by past developments. Funding has never kept pace with community needs. Hence, the hunger for new development.

#41 Steve Heard

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE (supermom @ Aug 3 2010, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Steve-these are my questions after going to meeting tonight.

I don't have all of the answers, but I'll do my best based on what I've heard, seen, and read.

1. Why only 2 fire stations? Seems that with the amount of wooded area being set aside-the density of housing beside thses areas-it would make sense to worry about even 1 pyro living in folsom.

I don't what standard is used for determining the number of fire stations, but would guess that it is based on the size of the development and to the proximity to other stations. For example, the Clarksville Rd station is very close to the area to be developed.

2. Where in that pretty map is there a zoning for industrial growth? 20 years after the developement- how else will the area sustain itself if it is only a bedroom community?

Most would be in the northern area along the freeway according to past presentations as well as the one last night. There will be a mix of business types, including office and retail.

3. I am interest in the projected types of parks. Dog park? Tennis courts? Baseball,softball bike and skateboard parks? Water features?

That will come, I believe, after land use is approved and they move on to the master plan.

4. I find it odd they put the middle and highschool oon the outer edge of the soi. Why? Will those students share the highschool with a different community?.

I don't know.

There was a great deal of conversation that mentioned LAFCO. What does lafco mean?

See Harmill's post above

The two main throughfares to run east and west-planned 4 lane roads....I would like to see wide (20 foot) islands in the middle. Tree lined. Planners seem to be focusing on parks as the only green havens in the community. It is always nice to have a greenbelt drive as part of your commute.

I agree, hope and believe that the city will continue doing the great job they've done with areas such as Oak Ave Parkway and Empire Ranch Rd. Final designs are a ways off, however.

Also, the city community area seems rather vague. My understaning is that there is a wish to move the pd headquarters out of the building it is in now- and move to the soi area.

I haven't heard that one. I think it's a good idea keeping it next to city hall.


Also-won't a whole new area need a library?

Yes, and that was mentioned as part of the plan last night.

Wouldn't it be nice to nix the planned mall and get a convention center with a proper dance and drama consortium added to the city? (I would love to not have to drive to downtown sac to see balllet.

I think the new performing arts center at Folsom Lake College will help with that, as well as the amphitheater on Sutter and the new entertainment plans in the SOI. By the way, did you know that we have a Folsom Civic Ballet? http://www.stages-pe...rts.org/ballet/

As for city enhancements-this would be a great time to add a tripple a ball field to our cities sight seeing lists..



QUOTE (harrmill @ Aug 4 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One other point I must share. There are several examples of South of 50 new development that may or may not be good examples of what to do - Capitol Center on Zinfandel, and Anatolia on S. Sunrise. I know that when Anatolia was built the homeowners were promised shopping and services that did not initially materialize and they faced long drives to Folsom Blvd, or Folsom itself to run errands. Capitol Center has attempted some higher-density housing and retail. What can be learned from those?


That was mentioned last night as well, as examples of what not to do.

QUOTE (valdossjoyce @ Aug 4 2010, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"It's not like anyone could stop it. It's going to happen sometime."

The annexation application is going according to the city council's plan. When the economy is suitable, development will start. Everything is legally in place. Not only will it be too late to do anything later, it is already too late now.

Oh, as for why the city wants more development, city government feeds off of development fees. Rapid growth of our existing city boundaries kept city hall filled with employees and funded city services that should have been paid for by past developments. Funding has never kept pace with community needs. Hence, the hunger for new development.


In last night's presentation, the mayor mentioned that there were projections for 10 million new Californians over the next 20 years (forgive me if I'm messing up the numbers), and that the state wants all communities to accomodate growth. We cannot wall off the city.

The county says they have no plans for developing the area, but when the demand for housing and industrial space grows, they may change their minds. That's why it is important for us to control it rather than other jurisdictions.

Development is years off, but by setting the stage now, when the economy comes back, and it will, we'll be ahead of the curve instead of just getting the ball rolling.

I know that Rancho and Sac Co have said they aren't interested in the area, but they can change their minds.

I am not pro-development of the area and would love to see it stay as it is, but if it does get developed, I'd like to know that it is done right.

PS. Welcome back Val. We haven't seen you around in a while.

Steve Heard

Folsom Real Estate Specialist

EXP Realty

BRE#01368503

Owner - MyFolsom.com

916 718 9577 


#42 valdossjoyce

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:56 PM

I just spent my lunch break reading the parts of the DEIR (Draft Environmental Impact Report) covering Traffic and Transportation. My worst fears regarding the traffic impact of this annexation/development have been confirmed in this document. I didn't count all the traffic impacts in the report, only those where, even after mitigation, the effect would be "significant and unavoidable." There are 39! Not all of the impacts are in the project area. The mitigation measures include widening Hwy 50, widening on-of ramps, adding lanes to existing Folsom streets, reconfiguring intersections in current Folsom and more. In several instances, the proposed mitigation is altogher impossible because Folsom has a limit on the number of lanes a city street can have. In almost every case, the applicants (the landowners of the annexed land) would only be required to pay their "fair share" of the "improvements." That sounds to me like we, the current residents, will be picking up part of the tab.

Written comments to city hall must be postmarked no later than August 16. I don't know if comments would make any difference--I'm not a land-use attorney. I'll try to find out and if there's hope, I'll update y'all.

#43 Folsom Guy

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (Inwit @ Aug 2 2010, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with both comments.

I also agree with the city council's viewpoint, that if Folsom doesn't expand there, Rancho or Sac County would instead, so we might as well have the say as to how it goes instead of others.

I might not like it, but I believe it is inevitable.

I believe that's a myth (I'd say a lie) perpetrated and propagated by the city council....

#44 Steve Heard

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:10 PM

QUOTE (Folsom Guy @ Aug 9 2010, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe that's a myth (I'd say a lie) perpetrated and propagated by the city council....

To what end?

It has been argued that Miklos wants it because he's in the real estate/mortgage business and he'll get new customers. I'm in the Real Estate business, and there are plenty of homes to sell. 330 of them in Folsom right now. Adding more won't guarantee me more business, nor will it guarantee more for Steve Miklos.

It's been argued that Starsky wants it because he's counsel for an air conditioning company and they'll get new customers. Is that really what's going on?

What about Andy Morin? More customers for his cafe in Granite Bay? Kerri Howell gets more engineering clients? Eric King would get the benefit of Intel selling more computer chips?

If you believe the council is lying, what are they to gain?

Steve Heard

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Owner - MyFolsom.com

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#45 old soldier

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:43 AM

I don't quite understand that traffic news, but I have felt all along that the south of 50 would not be self financing but it would be done on the back and with the money from current folsom folks and the big winners would be the developers cause the council would cut them sweet deals.

with all the new homes and people you wonder just what percentage of folsom citizens have any idea what is going on




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