343 replies to this topic

[cw68]

forgetting that white men were the ones who voted that slavery be abolished. Something the whites have never gotten any credit for.

You have got to be kidding me.

[Chris]

You have got to be kidding me.

Well in the 1770's the founding fathers all voted in a way to keep slavery by giving into the Southern states threat not to join in the original 13 states if slavery was not part of the deal..... The Northern states figured that we would deal with it later....

Later was 1861 and in four years time 360,000 men in blue (mostly white) voted with their lives to end it....
Some 260,000 men in gray voted with their lives not to end it........

So, all kidding aside, the truth is somewhere in the middle as usual......

Chris

[supermom]

If someone was banging your head off the concrete and you felt you were going to die, would you shoot them to save yourself?

There is no proof that such an assertion is true. Merely a hearsay claim. The only witness to the fight was a 13 year old boy who said it was too dark to see who was on the ground and he never saw a second person.

The police report states a broken nose and a few minor cuts on the back of zimmermans head. Absolutely no way would those injuries be consistent with someone grabbing your head and slamming it on a concrete sidewalk or grass where the fight allegedly took place. The walk way where the fight took place is a narrow sidewalk with a good deal of thick lush grass on both sides in an area where there was no lights.

it is my personal belief that a portion of the fight took place elsewhere, say..next to the vehicle zimmerman was driving in while following trayvon prior to calling cops and claiming he was chasing a lone boy and intruder of the gated community. This is merely supposition on my part, however I think what really happened is that zimmerman saw trayvon and shouted at him to come over to him. trayvon probably complied. however an nasty volley of verbage probably escalated into a fight. It would not surprise me if the argument turned loud, involved swearing and insults (what 17 year old boy would not get inflamed by being called a punk?), and the fight happened there.in the street, next to the vehicle. which probably has blood on it from trayvon trying a football tackle and knocking zimmermans body into the car, where he cuts his head open. trayvon then flees.

zimmerman calls the cops. only he is careful to not say he has already gotten into an altercation and fight with the kid because he is protecting his ego and probably knows by now that he kid is in fact a kid. But he is mad. He doesn't want to get arrested again for being overly violent. He has been down that path before. good old judge daddy had to save his arse a few times. He even had an injuction against him for beating his wife a few years ago. so calls and says he sees an intruder. and the intruder is fleeing. they tell him he doesn't have to follow. he says ok and hangs up. the cops are on their way. zimmerman follows the kid and gets into a confrontation with him a second time. this time he he is ready. he got out of his vehicle with the gun in his hands. he puts it in his waistband. he yells at the kid to stop. the kid stops and they start exchanging a heated conversation probably laced with insults. Emotions skyrocket. the kid is desperate to run away. He starts screaming for help. zimmerman panics, pulls his gun and shoots the kid. He tells everyone it was self-defense.

Another thought is that he gets out of his vehicle, chases the kid. The argument happens. Someone swings first. Trayvon tackles the fat man down. but he is no match weight wise for a guy that is 100 pounds heavier than him. they are rolling around on the ground. trayvon snaps zimmermans head back and tries a head pound to the ground. it glances off of a stick or perhaps a grass sprinkler. Which cuts zimmermans head. But simmerman is not severley hurt like he would have been if it had been concrete. He would have had a severe concussion or possibly be in a coma and brain dead. But the shock of this fight scares him. he rolls partially over, gets his gun out of his waistband or perhaps holster--and fires a round into the body of trayvon. Trayvon was a scared 17 year old football player that diddn't know how to handle the situation he was in. Zimmerman was a 28 year old man who had completed a citizen police academy, knew the laws, and had chosen multiple times to ignore them and each time the amount of violence he used had escalated.

Do I think he hunted the kid down with the premeditated intent to kill the kid? No. Do I believe he knew that he had stepped way out of the box as a security guard and was acting as a vigilante and went waay to far in his actions? Ohhh, yeah.

Whatever the reasons, the kid had the right to walk through his neighborhood unmolested and a simple wave to a security guard driving by and a comment yeah I live in such and such address should have been enough to satisfy both parties. Instead the night of hell happened.

So, it kind of makes you wonder, did these two have a history of throwing insults at each other? Was there provoked antagonism that happened that instigated this fight? Just how much authority can a night watch of a HOA have, when he isn't licensed as a security guard? Just carrying a loaded weapon on him was a serious offense and begs the question of the stability of this man, prior to him seeing trayvon walking down the street carrying a pack of skittles and a bottle of tea.




ps..why the hell did the cops give the gun back to zimmerman that night---and not take his clithes in for examination? Why didn't they insist zimmerman go into a hospital for examination after a person ended up dead? a fprensic examination should have been mandatory!

[4thgenFolsomite]

ahh, the court of public opinion! I was wondering where it was located.

[dimeracer]

lol

[supermom]

ahh, the court of public opinion! I was wondering where it was located.

Yes, but there really isn't anything wrong with public opinion as long as the pollsters aren't going out and being vigilantes for justice!

Discussons on newsworthy events shape the mores or the country which in turn creates protective laws or changes in legal status of actions. Those changes in law then protect people's who most need that protection for equality to truly happen.

The civil rights movements are a good example.

Many people would have said all the people on protest marches were just good for nothigns not going to work and creating a stir that doesn't need to happen in their quiet little towns.

Others would have said that by marching and creating a stir they are forcing conversations and thoughts on equality which will create civil rights laws to be passed and equality of races in a neighborhood/town/state.

To project a thought into a statement may or may not be liked but opinion that is being formed by trying to find alternative sets of actions that led to the death of this teenager is remarkable in itself in that over the last 50 years our country no longer dismisses the death of someone other than white and actually tries to use experiential formulas to find something closer to the truth than was provided from one party since the second party can not give a statement.

[dimeracer]

Armstrong and Getty cited the results of a poll yesterday that said 90% of blacks thought the killing was unjustified, while only 30% of whites thought so. Meanwhile close to 70% of both races surveyed said we will probably never know what happened. Hmmm.

[old soldier]

Yes, but there really isn't anything wrong with public opinion as long as the pollsters aren't going out and being vigilantes for justice!

Discussons on newsworthy events shape the mores or the country which in turn creates protective laws or changes in legal status of actions. Those changes in law then protect people's who most need that protection for equality to truly happen.

The civil rights movements are a good example.

Many people would have said all the people on protest marches were just good for nothigns not going to work and creating a stir that doesn't need to happen in their quiet little towns.

Others would have said that by marching and creating a stir they are forcing conversations and thoughts on equality which will create civil rights laws to be passed and equality of races in a neighborhood/town/state.

To project a thought into a statement may or may not be liked but opinion that is being formed by trying to find alternative sets of actions that led to the death of this teenager is remarkable in itself in that over the last 50 years our country no longer dismisses the death of someone other than white and actually tries to use experiential formulas to find something closer to the truth than was provided from one party since the second party can not give a statement.

who is the judge on this here court of public opinion.

[supermom]

who is the judge on this here court of public opinion.

Just suppostion, old goose. No judging.

Zimmerman has already admitted to killing the kid. The reasoning and is what is in question.

[Priscilla]

Yes, but there really isn't anything wrong with public opinion as long as the pollsters aren't going out and being vigilantes for justice!

Discussons on newsworthy events shape the mores or the country which in turn creates protective laws or changes in legal status of actions. Those changes in law then protect people's who most need that protection for equality to truly happen.

The civil rights movements are a good example.

Many people would have said all the people on protest marches were just good for nothigns not going to work and creating a stir that doesn't need to happen in their quiet little towns.

Others would have said that by marching and creating a stir they are forcing conversations and thoughts on equality which will create civil rights laws to be passed and equality of races in a neighborhood/town/state.

To project a thought into a statement may or may not be liked but opinion that is being formed by trying to find alternative sets of actions that led to the death of this teenager is remarkable in itself in that over the last 50 years our country no longer dismisses the death of someone other than white and actually tries to use experiential formulas to find something closer to the truth than was provided from one party since the second party can not give a statement.

See this is the problem. YOU dont know what happened, you were not there! People need to stop "speculating" what happened that night. Let the Justice system do their job. People like AL Sharpton, Black Panthers,spike lee needs to STHU!!!! All I know for sure is that zimmerman is more safe in jail than out on the streets.

[supermom]

See this is the problem. YOU dont know what happened, you were not there! People need to stop "speculating" what happened that night. Let the Justice system do their job. People like AL Sharpton, Black Panthers,spike lee needs to STHU!!!! All I know for sure is that zimmerman is more safe in jail than out on the streets.

Don't tell me that I need to shut the hell up, or that I need to stop speculating, and don't compare me to the black panthers who voice violence for attrocities committed against black people in our country.

Not once have I suggested a racial motivation that would link me to the black panther group!

There is a definite reason why people "speculate" on how a crime was committed. There are times when you can flesh out the how-then you can flesh out the why, and then you can know what the reasoning behind and action was all about.

[Steve Heard]

Funny how nobody has answered this question that you've now asked several times. I guess white guys are just supposed to take the beating and die.

You know that is not the case. When Zimmerman shot Martin, he may indeed have been trying to defend himself. I don't know. Old Soldier's scenario makes sense. I can imagine a teenager, or even a grown man getting scared and then angry that someone is following him in the dark, sizing him up and figuring he could take him. I imagine that Zimmerman was surprised that his questioning didn't go the way he planned, and a struggle ensued. He may have then been in a losing battle and shot the kid to save his own life. If this is what happened, what is Zimmerman guilty of? We know that he was not supposed to be armed in representing the neighborhood watch. We know that he was advised against following the kid. We know that he shot Martin and that the cops found him bleeding.

I wonder why the story of my friend who's face was broken by a ahole gang banger last month in Seattle never made national news??? Oh silly me, he was only a white guy so it's no big deal...

Unfortunately, hundreds, if not thousands of assaults, shootings and roberries happen every day in this country. They don't, and can't, all make national news. This one did so not just because of the differences in race, but because an unarmed teenager was suspected of wrong doing by an armed neighborhood watch captain and the kid ended up dead. It was over a month before it made national news, and it did so because the police wanted charges pressed but the DA declined to, and the parents felt, as many parents of minority kids have felt, that the deaths of their kids are not investigated as well as those of white kids. The killer's version in nutshell is that he saw a suspicious character, followed him, was then confronted by and assaulted by him (which proved he was up to no good), and he shot him in self defense. The parents' version is that their teenage son went to the store to buy candy, was confronted by a stranger, struggled with him and was then shot dead by him, and they were supposed to do nothing but mourn the loss of their child.

[Priscilla]

Don't tell me that I need to shut the hell up, or that I need to stop speculating, and don't compare me to the black panthers who voice violence for attrocities committed against black people in our country.

Not once have I suggested a racial motivation that would link me to the black panther group!

There is a definite reason why people "speculate" on how a crime was committed. There are times when you can flesh out the how-then you can flesh out the why, and then you can know what the reasoning behind and action was all about.

Im not saying you suggested a racial motivation. All im saying is YOU dont know what happened. I dont know what happened. We were not there!!!! And Im not comparing you to anyone. Relax lady. What I am saying is al sharpton "speculated" and led a march...Black Panthers speculated and there was a "bounty" out on his life. Thats all im saying. We all have NO CLUE what happened.

[supermom]

Im not saying you suggested a racial motivation. All im saying is YOU dont know what happened. I dont know what happened. We were not there!!!! And Im not comparing you to anyone. Relax lady. What I am saying is al sharpton "speculated" and led a march...Black Panthers speculated and there was a "bounty" out on his life. Thats all im saying. We all have NO CLUE what happened.

Take your own advice and stop speculating on what you want to believe I'm doing. I am not advocating violence or racism. Do not back pedal now. You know you attacked me without provocation to further not your objection to my message; but rather to further your own statement of objection to a message you perceive in the actions of people who aren't even posting on this forum.

Chill out. And next time you want to object to al sharpton, don't tag my quotes! Just hit the reply button and fire away all about your issues with an egotistical politician that you obviously do not like.

Perhaps you did not read my post thoroughly before you got tied up in self-sanctimonious sour apple war head flavored pretzels? I specifically said : this is merely supposition on my part. Later I specifically said: In my opinion.

I'm not guessing. I am basing these actions on fights that have occurred before which created the environment for a lethal action to take place.

And again, one can not learn to stop violence if one does not explore the manner, reasoning, wherewithal, personal histories, mentalities, emotions, financial motivations, etc. Conversing and speculating is the first step in scientific theory.