I don't really want to join in on the debate over this but the attitude that it is none of our business is concerning to me. I trust the Folsom Police will handle this in a completely appropriate manner but as humans, it seems completely heartless to think this is none of our business. A baby was apparently born alive and left to die... right in our neighborhood. That is horrifying and even though I'd love to not care, I DO CARE! How can I not care? How can I think it's none of my business? This happened near my home and I didn't sleep the night I heard about it because I kept wondering exactly what this poor baby must have gone through. I think it's normal and human to have questions and concerns. We can't turn off our feelings. We can't help but wonder "What if?" and hope that we can prevent something like this from happening to another child.
Baby Found In Folsom Backyard
Started by
nomad
, Aug 06 2012 10:16 AM
47 replies to this topic
#32
asbestoshills
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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:39 PM
Supermom, what r u an FBI agent? Perhaps you are so nosey b/c you don't have enough on your plate to satisfy your curiosity? I can understand you wanting her to get punished if she did neglect the baby and it died. HOWEVER, it is not for you to infer or imply that she was or was not capable of decision making. I really think people who speculate to this degree are beyond prying. If you really care about young adults in this situation perhaps you can volunteer with some kind of group that helps unwed moms. When you act as judge, jury and sentencing, you are displaying a mob mentality.
Americans, don't just come in one color or race.
#33
2kids4me
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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:41 PM
Sorry, but I don't think "ignorance" is a good excuse here. This is a very affluent community and the kids are (or damn well should be) well-educated. This is not some 12yo in a backwoods neighborhood in the hills of W. Virginia. She knew what she was doing was wrong. I think my 11yo would know that a baby (or a dog or cat for that matter) should not be left to die (or decompose) in a backyard.
Yes, it's tragic, and I feel bad for the family. It still does not excuse the actions of the "mother". I think our society is finding more and more ways not to hold people accountable for their actions, and that is wrong. We make mistakes, we must suffer the consequences.
Yes, it's tragic, and I feel bad for the family. It still does not excuse the actions of the "mother". I think our society is finding more and more ways not to hold people accountable for their actions, and that is wrong. We make mistakes, we must suffer the consequences.
#34
bordercolliefan
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Posted 14 August 2012 - 04:25 PM
Oddly enough, I am familiar with a very similar case that occurred about 20 years ago.
In that case, the girl, age 19, put her baby's body outside the bathroom window, where it was eventually discovered. She later claimed the baby had been stillborn and she panicked in disposing of its body. The police/coroner were not able to prove definitively that the baby had been born alive. I can't remember what she was charged with, but she ended up getting about a year in prison as I recall.
I'm wondering if this will end up the same way, or if the science is better now to tell if the baby was born alive.
In that case, the girl, age 19, put her baby's body outside the bathroom window, where it was eventually discovered. She later claimed the baby had been stillborn and she panicked in disposing of its body. The police/coroner were not able to prove definitively that the baby had been born alive. I can't remember what she was charged with, but she ended up getting about a year in prison as I recall.
I'm wondering if this will end up the same way, or if the science is better now to tell if the baby was born alive.
#35
supermom
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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:13 PM
Failure to report a death
Child abuse for neglecting to provide medical needs.
Failure to properly dispose of body
Those are the charges of someone who abandoned the baby
It is possible the person will be able to concurrently serve the first and last charges. Usually 1 year, misdemeanor. The middle one, however- could be anything from a misdemeanor to a felony with a minimum 10 year sentence,, especially if they decide the neglect caused a condition to become fatal. But, i fthat were the case they would probably charge it as homicide.
So far as we know, this is just a suspicious death and abandonment of a body, though.
Child abuse for neglecting to provide medical needs.
Failure to properly dispose of body
Those are the charges of someone who abandoned the baby
It is possible the person will be able to concurrently serve the first and last charges. Usually 1 year, misdemeanor. The middle one, however- could be anything from a misdemeanor to a felony with a minimum 10 year sentence,, especially if they decide the neglect caused a condition to become fatal. But, i fthat were the case they would probably charge it as homicide.
So far as we know, this is just a suspicious death and abandonment of a body, though.
#36
(MaxineR)
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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:22 PM
This could be much more complicated than we imagine.
Kids leave home before they are eighteen, sometimes. It may be because they don’t want to follow their parent’s rules, or they are not willing to go to school. Sometimes they come back, with problems.
Also, there may be a mental disorder, bipolar disorder or drug addiction that makes a young person act out or chose to do things without much thought. Poor decision making is common among those with emotional problems.
In addition, when a teen turns eighteen and chooses to live on the street, homeless, there’s not much a parent can do about it. If the young woman gets pregnant and has nothing to give the baby, she may decide to let nature take it’s course, being of the opinion that the world is too cruel of a place for it, since she may feel they have had such a bad life. This thinking occurs with depression, and if no treatment is given, the condition doesn't get much better.
Again, many, many things to consider here and since we don’t have all the facts, who are we to judge?
Kids leave home before they are eighteen, sometimes. It may be because they don’t want to follow their parent’s rules, or they are not willing to go to school. Sometimes they come back, with problems.
Also, there may be a mental disorder, bipolar disorder or drug addiction that makes a young person act out or chose to do things without much thought. Poor decision making is common among those with emotional problems.
In addition, when a teen turns eighteen and chooses to live on the street, homeless, there’s not much a parent can do about it. If the young woman gets pregnant and has nothing to give the baby, she may decide to let nature take it’s course, being of the opinion that the world is too cruel of a place for it, since she may feel they have had such a bad life. This thinking occurs with depression, and if no treatment is given, the condition doesn't get much better.
Again, many, many things to consider here and since we don’t have all the facts, who are we to judge?
#37
supermom
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:45 PM
who are we to judge?
Even if you were to take away all the supposition, the guesses, the Whys?, the excuses, and worse than anything else--the silence over a life lost: and just concentrate on who did not report a death, and who left a dead infant exposed to the harsh environment instead of properly and legally caring for the body---it is still our duty to judge. Judgement comes with a cost. That cost at times can be painful. It can be humiliating. It can be taxing. It can even free someone from an emotional burden. There is a reason why our society demands judgment of injustices, whether they are social, or criminal. The reason is very clear. This is how we regulate our society in moral stimulation rather than atrophy as a society and become a republic of anarchists. That infant deserved to acknowledged. And to be buried.
#38
(MaxineR)
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 03:38 PM
Even if you were to take away all the supposition, the guesses, the Whys?, the excuses, and worse than anything else--the silence over a life lost: and just concentrate on who did not report a death, and who left a dead infant exposed to the harsh environment instead of properly and legally caring for the body---it is still our duty to judge. Judgement comes with a cost. That cost at times can be painful. It can be humiliating. It can be taxing. It can even free someone from an emotional burden. There is a reason why our society demands judgment of injustices, whether they are social, or criminal. The reason is very clear. This is how we regulate our society in moral stimulation rather than atrophy as a society and become a republic of anarchists. That infant deserved to acknowledged. And to be buried.
With all due respect, I think you are going a little overboard here.
You are assuming that the family that lived in the house KNEW the girl, (maybe their daughter) was pregnant. Perhaps that daughter/girl did not live there. Perhaps she came back while in labor, hoping to get some help, but the family was gone on a trip.
You are assuming the mother had no emotional illness or any type of developmental problems. Maybe the mother had run away with her boyfriend, then was dropped off after the labor pains began.
And you are assuming that the new born was known about right after it was born. It is possible that the mother gave birth to the baby in the back yard and for some reason, left it there, hoping someone would find it and care for it.
No one is saying that baby did not deserve a chance to live. No one is saying it was right for the baby to be left alone to die. All I was saying is, we don’t have all the facts. The mother of the new born has to have some problems to do as she did. She probably was not given the help she needed and resorted to what she did, because of it.
I think you need to examine your outrage, because it sounds like this is affecting you more than it should.
#39
supermom
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 04:13 PM
Don't make assumptions about the types of assumptions I am making.With all due respect, I think you are going a little overboard here.
You are assuming that the family that lived in the house KNEW the girl, (maybe their daughter) was pregnant. Perhaps that daughter/girl did not live there. Perhaps she came back while in labor, hoping to get some help, but the family was gone on a trip.
You are assuming the mother had no emotional illness or any type of developmental problems. Maybe the mother had run away with her boyfriend, then was dropped off after the labor pains began.
And you are assuming that the new born was known about right after it was born. It is possible that the mother gave birth to the baby in the back yard and for some reason, left it there, hoping someone would find it and care for it.
No one is saying that baby did not deserve a chance to live. No one is saying it was right for the baby to be left alone to die. All I was saying is, we don't have all the facts. The mother of the new born has to have some problems to do as she did. She probably was not given the help she needed and resorted to what she did, because of it.
I think you need to examine your outrage, because it sounds like this is affecting you more than it should.
I specifically said if you take away any excuses, or assumptions and just look at the fact--someone did not report a death, and someone did not properly and legally dispose of a dead body--a crime was committed. And that should be punished. Because laws are meant to keep our society within a fluid and self concious moral code of conduct that allows for all members of society to flourish amicably.
At this point you either have no reading comprehension skills or just want to argue. Go back and reread it. Then apologize to me for telling me what I am assuming.
#40
(MaxineR)
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:06 PM
Don't make assumptions about the types of assumptions I am making.
I specifically said if you take away any excuses, or assumptions and just look at the fact--someone did not report a death, and someone did not properly and legally dispose of a dead body--a crime was committed. And that should be punished. Because laws are meant to keep our society within a fluid and self concious moral code of conduct that allows for all members of society to flourish amicably.
At this point you either have no reading comprehension skills or just want to argue. Go back and reread it. Then apologize to me for telling me what I am assuming.
In a perfect world, I agree with your previous post. And, I admit that I misread your post.
For that, and only for that, I apologize.
I do not apologize for the comments I made, and if I choose to judge, it will be my decision, not yours.
You can, by all means, judge just as much as you want. If it makes you feel better.
I’m certainly NOT going to argue with you about your right to do so.
For me, this topic has ran it’s course.
#41
supermom
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 05:34 PM
Ah, so it is ok for you to judge, but not anyone else? And when they make a statement that is logical, you run? Say you are done. Got it. You're done.
#42
(MaxineR)
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:29 PM
Ah, so it is ok for you to judge, but not anyone else? And when they make a statement that is logical, you run? Say you are done. Got it. You're done.
No....I decide to judge and you decide to judge, whenever we feel it’s appropriate.
You don’t tell me when to judge and like wise, I don’t tell you.
I’m NOT running. I’m deciding that this topic has run it’s course FOR ME, personally.
Now who has trouble comprehending what is written here?
#43
nomad
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:33 PM
Failure to report a death
Child abuse for neglecting to provide medical needs.
Failure to properly dispose of body
Those are the charges of someone who abandoned the baby
It is possible the person will be able to concurrently serve the first and last charges. Usually 1 year, misdemeanor. The middle one, however- could be anything from a misdemeanor to a felony with a minimum 10 year sentence,, especially if they decide the neglect caused a condition to become fatal. But, i fthat were the case they would probably charge it as homicide.
So far as we know, this is just a suspicious death and abandonment of a body, though.
How do you know? Are you a lawyer too? How many of these cases have you prosecuted?
You are the queen of wikipedia and speculation.
#44
supermom
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 08:58 PM
How do you know? Are you a lawyer too? How many of these cases have you prosecuted?
You are the queen of wikipedia and speculation.
No, I looked it up in penal code. And asked someone I know who is a DOJ attorney.
I never use wikipedia as a source.
Why such attitude? Have nothing useful to add to this discussion, as well? More bait running? Pretty pathetic
#45
nomad
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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:10 PM
No, I looked it up in penal code. And asked someone I know who is a DOJ attorney.
I never use wikipedia as a source.
Why such attitude? Have nothing useful to add to this discussion, as well? More bait running? Pretty pathetic
You have no facts. Just stories from half complete news reports but you draw the conclusions like you know exactly what happened.
That is what is pathetic, you try and come across as all knowing and so certain when you don't have a clue except from what you get from spying people's facebook and myspace pages.
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