92 replies to this topic

[MikeinFolsom]

It's too bad you even need moderators. There are some people on here who are relentless in badgering people into believing their way is the only way, and if you don't agree, well then get the guns ablazing. If I only had a penny for every time certain people post the same messages over and over just to get reactions from others on the forum, I'd be a wealthy man. Almost as if they need to run and re-run the topics into the ground. Some people just really don't get what a forum is for, I guess?

[Robert Giacometti]

It's too bad you even need moderators. There are some people on here who are relentless in badgering people into believing their way is the only way, and if you don't agree, well then get the guns ablazing. If I only had a penny for every time certain people post the same messages over and over just to get reactions from others on the forum, I'd be a wealthy man. Almost as if they need to run and re-run the topics into the ground. Some people just really don't get what a forum is for, I guess?

Is this your example of what a forum is for?

[Judge Smails]

Stop being victims! Her posts were increasingly racial and teetering on the absurd.

[Steve Heard]

I stayed out of this argument but will chime in here based on some of the responses.

As a moderator, I haven't received a deluge of complaints about Maxine from liberals, and I haven't seen moderators suggest she be banned. We do have a moderator forum where we can discuss problems with posts or members, but because John generally wants to allow people to speak their minds, we rarely talk of banning or suspending anyone.

Having said that, I have had people I run into ask me how I could stand being part of the forum with all of the negativity, and some have cited Maxine's frequent anti-Obama, and racial or racist posts.

I know people who have dropped out, who lurk without posting, or who won't advertise on the site, and have had a couple of people suggest I no longer advertise or participate because the forum has taken on such a negative tone and that it may not be good for my business.

John created this website as a place where people could could come to get news of the day, find resources, get updates on things happening in the city, seek recommendations and discuss issues, and where he could generate advertising revenue.

It was not meant to be a platform for political rants and agenda.

I know that overall, political discussions can get heated anywhere, but as you all see, most of our political topics are posted by a small group of people, and while some may have different philosophical differences, Maxine's were often absurd and offensive.

Slowly, ever so slowly......... There will be only far left and left of center folks here and they can bask in their "enlightenment" and ignore that the emperor has no clothes.......If Maxine is indeed gone then it is a great shame on this forum and those who worked with their PM's and spite to ban her............. Who's next, the Dude, Joe, me, FDNY.........? If you elect to hear only folks that agree with you then you do yourself a great disservice and seal your own fate. The so called "tolerant" ones have shown their true colors once again....

I think the opposite has happened. There are many, many liberals who have left the forum, tired of getting bashed for having a difference of opinion. Comments like 'liberalism is a disease', and 'liberals are ruining America', and 'liberals are giving aid and comfort to the enemy' have driven people away or intimidated them into keeping their mouths shut.

There is rarely civil discussion anymore. It's mostly anger.

As has been pointed out, John is not a liberal, and 'being tolerant' doesn't mean putting up with absurdity and allowing people to take a business down.

When I think about the moderators we've had over the years, John, Msgt, Chad, Forumreader, cybertano, camay, Dave Burell, tgianco, caligirlz, F500, cw68 and myself, only the last 3 could be considered moderate to liberal. The rest, conservative. When you look at the top posters, the ones you see most often; the Dude, MaxineR, Chris, Average Joe, Robert Giacometti, nomad, mac convert, tsukiji, old soldier, and Mikeinfolsom, you'll see that most are conservative.

Now, think about the ones you consider liberal. CW68, Folsombound, Unclevinny, Me. Who else?

I don't think this conservative forum in this conservative town is in danger of becoming a left-wing haven any time soon.

I would be interested in the details (what was said, who complained, and what specific rules were broken). I have seen quite a bit of "bad " behavior by posters that went without consequence, and while I didn't always agree with Maxine's perspective, her posts generally contributed to the forums.

On the other hand, there are several posters that contribute little and often get personal that I find annoying, but I just pretty much ignore them. Of course, I will give what I get. If you have a thoughtful critique or analysis, awesome. If you attempt to run smack, I'm fine with that too. I would certainly never let some forumboy send me running to the mods because they "offended" me with limp smack or dared to challenge my worldview.

Complaints to moderators are rare. John has always tried to let people speak their minds without censorship but sometimes people get on a one-note agenda that gets tiresome and negative. John decided he wanted to decrease the negativity and it is obvious to most that Maxine's posts were rarely positive.

It's too bad you even need moderators. There are some people on here who are relentless in badgering people into believing their way is the only way, and if you don't agree, well then get the guns ablazing. If I only had a penny for every time certain people post the same messages over and over just to get reactions from others on the forum, I'd be a wealthy man. Almost as if they need to run and re-run the topics into the ground. Some people just really don't get what a forum is for, I guess?

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Stop being victims! Her posts were increasingly racial and teetering on the absurd.

Yes, no one seems to mention that. Just look at some of her recent posts:

"W.H. Petition Calls for Stripping Citizenship and Exile for Anyone Who Signs Petition to Secede" - In truth, it is not a White House petition, but a petition by private citizens who were demanding that their states cecede.

"The Blow Back Has Started.....I wonder how much they will love Obama after this.
BOhioas' food stamp aid to be reduced...Benefit to fall $50 a month starting in January" - I assume that she's implying that the people of Ohio voted for Obama to get more welfare benefits and now they won't get them so they won't be as supportive of him.

"The Beginning Of The End Of America", in which she says, " How will Obama not hit the wall, when there is not enough money to give everyone food stamps, cell phones, rent money and Welfare for four more years?" - Obama has never proposed giving everyone these things, and I am pretty sick of the 'Obama Phone' smear. The Lifeline program was started in 1984 during the Reagan Administration, when cell phones didn't exist. Cell phones were added during the Bush administration, because of the rising cost of landlines and the portability and practicality of cell phones. The program was not started by Obama and was never paid for with tax dollars, but by the utility companies themselves.

"Black People Know Who You Are..." - Bill Maher made a joke during his stand up comedy routine and she tried to turn it into something it wasn't.

"Romney signs defaced with excrement in Virginia" - Defacing of campaign signs has been going on since the invention of campaign signs, and Maxine posts this while ignoring the countless stories of Obama signs with bullet holes, the 'N-word' and worse.

"Is this the Real Obama?" - where she says, "Any blood spilled by Blacks attacking and killing whites in this country, will be on Obama’s hands, since he is so divisive in his speech, demonizing whites at every turn." - Why? Because during a 2007 campaign speech then candidate Obama correctly pointed out that after both 911 and hurrican Andrew, the Federal government gave aid to the affected areas, waiving the 10% local government match required under the Stafford Act, but with Katrina such a waiver was granted to New Orleans after Katrina.

"Black Panthers Threaten Republican Convention -"

"Safety Alert! Your Lives Are In Danger! open season on white people"

And of course, there's the time she said that she allows her employees to refuse service to black customers because 'they're too much trouble'.

I am sure that there are people on this forum that see absolutely nothing wrong with those posts and support her 100%, but for the rest of us, it was discouraging and sad and maddening.

It's not about political differences. It's not about Liberals forcing John to get rid of conservatives. It is about trying to get the negativity out of the forum.

[Robert Giacometti]

To further clarify, the politics discussion is alienating many, many, MANY people from posting here. I love discussion, but many regulars aren't here anymore because of political rants. It's not why I created this site, and yes, we kick people out when they become a problem. Sometimes without warning. It can be flippant, yes, but I frankly don't have time to play the moderating game and watch people push the envelope.

I'm curious as to who these "regulars" are and how many of them were posting regulary when they could bash Bush. I recall seeing 6 new topics daily bashing Bush and the Reps started by just a few people, almost everyday back when GW was President.

Having lived in Folsom for 22 plus years, I have met quite few people. There isn't a month that goes by that I don't bump into someone I know around town and talk with them about things in general. Many times, they'll express comments about this forum and things that are posted on here. I know I've heard it said over 100 times or that this forum has a double standard for enforcement of the rules and this why these people won't participate on here!

My perception is that typically Conservatives will simply stop supporting something if they disagree with something, without making a big protest or noise about it and the Liberals typically will make it more of a public protest over their actions. I'm not saying this to make one side look better or worse, its simply my observations on how different sides react. Therefore when conservatives choose to stop participating on here they don't tell you why, they just leave

Given that Folsom is more conservative, there are probably more conservatives no longer actively participating than liberals. Many conservatives have looked over your forum and have picked up on the bias, therefore they don't participate.

Small business owners typicaly are more Conservative than Liberal. I know of small business owners who would Advertise on this forum, if there was a more balanced enforcement of your rules.

If you are really sincere in wanting this issue to get resolved, then I'd suggest recruiting an active conservative to be a Mod.( I'm not trying to belittle any of the current MODS) This MOD would put an end to the name calling, baiting and demonizing of the right. Once this is done, some on the right, would then feel validated and wouldn't react the way they do and your forum would become friendlier. This does NOT mean that the Right could name call, bait or demonize the left in anyway. Its wrong when either side does it, but currently one side gets away with doing it more often than the other. This leads to animosity being created on here.

I've offered to do this for you( you can put whatever limits or restrictions you want on me) and you have turned it down. I respect your right to operate your forum in the manner you feel is best. However, when the majority of the community is conservative and they see a liberal bias regarding your forum, you are getting the results you are set up to get.

[Steve Heard]

I'm curious as to who these "regulars" are and how many of them were posting regulary when they could bash Bush. I recall seeing 6 new topics daily bashing Bush and the Reps started by just a few people, almost everyday back when GW was President.

Having lived in Folsom for 22 plus years, I have met quite few people. There isn't a month that goes by that I don't bump into someone I know around town and talk with them about things in general. Many times, they'll express comments about this forum and things that are posted on here. I know I've heard it said over 100 times or that this forum has a double standard for enforcement of the rules and this why these people won't participate on here!

My perception is that typically Conservatives will simply stop supporting something if they disagree with something, without making a big protest or noise about it and the Liberals typically will make it more of a public protest over their actions. I'm not saying this to make one side look better or worse, its simply my observations on how different sides react. Therefore when conservatives choose to stop participating on here they don't tell you why, they just leave

Given that Folsom is more conservative, there are probably more conservatives no longer actively participating than liberals. Many conservatives have looked over your forum and have picked up on the bias, therefore they don't participate.

Small business owners typicaly are more Conservative than Liberal. I know of small business owners who would Advertise on this forum, if there was a more balanced enforcement of your rules.

If you are really sincere in wanting this issue to get resolved, then I'd suggest recruiting an active conservative to be a Mod.( I'm not trying to belittle any of the current MODS) This MOD would put an end to the name calling, baiting and demonizing of the right. Once this is done, some on the right, would then feel validated and wouldn't react the way they do and your forum would become friendlier. This does NOT mean that the Right could name call, bait or demonize the left in anyway. Its wrong when either side does it, but currently one side gets away with doing it more often than the other. This leads to animosity being created on here.

I've offered to do this for you( you can put whatever limits or restrictions you want on me) and you have turned it down. I respect your right to operate your forum in the manner you feel is best. However, when the majority of the community is conservative and they see a liberal bias regarding your forum, you are getting the results you are set up to get.

I respectfully disagree.

I think conservatives are far more likely to speak up with their criticisms than Liberals. This may explain why conservative talk-radio is booming, while Liberal talk is nearly dead.

As for the forum having a liberal bias, just take a look at the politics section. I gave up counting after looking at 2 pages of posts and found 31 started by conservatives and 7 by liberals (6 by one person, Unclevinny). Also, as mentioned, most of the moderators have been conservative.

[Robert Giacometti]

I respectfully disagree.

I think conservatives are far more likely to speak up with their criticisms than Liberals. This may explain why conservative talk-radio is booming, while Liberal talk is nearly dead.

As for the forum having a liberal bias, just take a look at the politics section. I gave up counting after looking at 2 pages of posts and found 31 started by conservatives and 7 by liberals (6 by one person, Unclevinny). Also, as mentioned, most of the moderators have been conservative.

The rules aren't being enforced the same, its that simple. If name calling, baiting and demonizing was eliminated and those who didn't stop were kicked out, everything would be a lot nicer!

Back when Bush was President, there were pages and pages of Liberals bashing Bush going on daily, but I never recalled you ever saying anything about the negativity then? Actually you were part of it!

[Steve Heard]

I think there's an entirely different tone these days, and several liberal folks were kicked off the forum for their anti-Bush rants. I think we see things through our own filters, and I don't recall having the anti-Bush fervor that was going around back then.

In fact, I was very supportive of the President's decision and response to the attacks, and going after Hussein.

By the way, I do think there is a double-standard here by some conservatives in that when Bush was president, liberals were chastised for criticizing him, with conservative folks saying that we were giving 'aid and comfort' to the enemy. What ever happened to that? Is it now okay to give aid and comfort to the enemy because Obama is the president?

It's one thing to say that Obama doesn't know what he's doing, that his policies won't work, that he is just like all the other politicians, and all of the other typical political insults.

It's entirely something else to constantly bring up ominous and unfounded rumors and racial fear-mongering.

[Robert Giacometti]

I think there's an entirely different tone these days, and several liberal folks were kicked off the forum for their anti-Bush rants. I think we see things through our own filters, and I don't recall having the anti-Bush fervor that was going around back then.

In fact, I was very supportive of the President's decision and response to the attacks, and going after Hussein.

By the way, I do think there is a double-standard here by some conservatives in that when Bush was president, liberals were chastised for criticizing him, with conservative folks saying that we were giving 'aid and comfort' to the enemy. What ever happened to that? Is it now okay to give aid and comfort to the enemy because Obama is the president?

It's one thing to say that Obama doesn't know what he's doing, that his policies won't work, that he is just like all the other politicians, and all of the other typical political insults.

It's entirely something else to constantly bring up ominous and unfounded rumors and racial fear-mongering.

I can understand that for you there is a different tone, because back in the day you part of the group doing the attacking and today your part of the group doing the defending!

This doesn't change the nastiness or resolve the challenges that John is facing. The best solution as I see it is getting a little stricter on enforcing the rules for EVERYONE!. Currently one side is getting away with more than the other and since your on the side that is benefitting from this you aren't able to see it! This is creating animosity and is contributing to the nastiness!

[Carl G]

Under my name there is now a "warning points". How many "warning points" until someone is suspended or banned? What needs to be done to get a warning point?

I'm guessing how this will work, but I like it. Any person can monitor themselves. If I'm accumulating warning points I know I need to tone it down. If I continue I'll get banned. I think this site will clean itself up pretty quickly.

[cw68]

Under my name there is now a "warning points". How many "warning points" until someone is suspended or banned? What needs to be done to get a warning point?

I'm guessing how this will work, but I like it. Any person can monitor themselves. If I'm accumulating warning points I know I need to tone it down. If I continue I'll get banned. I think this site will clean itself up pretty quickly.

If people pay attention, and care, I agree. I hope they do.

[Steve Heard]

I can understand that for you there is a different tone, because back in the day you part of the group doing the attacking and today your part of the group doing the defending!

This doesn't change the nastiness or resolve the challenges that John is facing. The best solution as I see it is getting a little stricter on enforcing the rules for EVERYONE!. Currently one side is getting away with more than the other and since your on the side that is benefitting from this you aren't able to see it! This is creating animosity and is contributing to the nastiness!

I respectfully disagree and don't see anyone benefitting in any way. I suggest that you being part of the side that is doing the bashing cannot see it.

I'd like to see some specific attacking posts which were left up by Liberals. I've already given you a list of some of Maxine's. If you have some similar from the left, please do post them.

In the mean time, with a 31 to 7 coservative to liberal-generated posts, with most moderators being conservative, and as you've stated, this being a conservative town, I stand by the the assertation that this forum has a conservative, rather than liberal bias.

Under my name there is now a "warning points". How many "warning points" until someone is suspended or banned? What needs to be done to get a warning point?

I'm guessing how this will work, but I like it. Any person can monitor themselves. If I'm accumulating warning points I know I need to tone it down. If I continue I'll get banned. I think this site will clean itself up pretty quickly.

I really don't understand the warning system myself. I believe it is part of the software, rather than something John came up with.

I don't think I've ever given any warning points in the 10+ years I've been here.

[Chris]

Under my name there is now a "warning points". How many "warning points" until someone is suspended or banned? What needs to be done to get a warning point?

I'm guessing how this will work, but I like it. Any person can monitor themselves. If I'm accumulating warning points I know I need to tone it down. If I continue I'll get banned. I think this site will clean itself up pretty quickly.

Just saw that on mine too....never noticed that stuff. I got 5 points....! Does that mean I'm an Ace....? What's my prize...? Thanks for the four that you gave me CW68....! I bet you don't have any points, just a wild guess on my part..... Can I give four back to you or can only mods do that....? Anyway, if Maxine is not allowed back and apologized too for being singled out your gonna lose a lot of your folks on the right here. Then you all on the left can listen to only what you want to hear.....! As GW Bush once said, Mission Accomplished....! Chris

[Chris]

If people pay attention, and care, I agree. I hope they do.

Just saw that on mine. Thank you CW for the 4 points you gave me.....! I bet you are "pointless".......... pun intended....! Chris

[john]

Don't worry about the warning points. It's an artifact of the software, it doesn't mean anything. It was supposed to be used as a means to keep tabs of really large user bases... Since our group is small, it's not really needed. Some have used it sporadically but the software isn't configured to do anything with it anyway.