537 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

It seems to me that our discussion has revealed that we break down into several different groups on the issue of the mosque.

At one extreme, we have what I would call the "Don't worry, be happy" group. This group acts as though everything that has happened -- 9/11, the London bombings, the Madrid bombings, Lackawanna, Lodi, the Sacramento mosque investigations and arrests, the discovery of certain American mosques being funded by Saudi Arabian groups, the shoe bomber, the arrest at Intel, etc. -- are all figments of our imagination that should have no impact on how we feel about a mosque in Folsom. This group seems to feel that to ask ANY questions about the Folsom mosque is impolite, if not downright un-American.

At the other extreme, we have a few posters who seem to take the view that no Muslims are welcome in Folsom -- or in America, for that matter.

I would like to suggest that as with many things in life, the moderate position is the most sensible. Under this view, we recognize the right of Muslims to have a mosque in Folsom, and we welcome those who are committed to being good Americans, to practicing democratic and egalitarian values, and to becoming part of American society. At the same time, we learn from events that have occurred and ask questions to learn what kind of mosque it will be, who will be coming here to worship and attend school, what values will be taught to the young people attending the school, what connections and funding sources the mosque will have, etc.

Since when did it become un-American to have questions or express concerns?

[mylo]

^^^^^^^^

Nice post border

[bishmasterb]

Since when did it become un-American to have questions or express concerns?

Nothing wrong with anyone asking questions.

There's also nothing wrong with them replying "none of your business".

[imagerynine]

I am a Caucasian American born and raised, baptized Catholic, raised in a Catholic family. I have felt the power of God and feel very strongly in him. When I was in my late teens I realized that how could I say I believe in something when it is all I know? For years I studied the different religions of world, Islam, LDS, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. Reading from the Bible, the Qur’an, truly studying the beliefs of each religion. I great enjoyed the exploration that Buddhism leads the mind in to, I loved the scientific backing of Islam…every religion had it’s good points. I currently follow Sufism, which is version of Islam. What I’ve learned about Islam from studying it and actually taking the time to read from the Qur'an and see what the real meaning behind Islam is, is that it is one of the most loving and peaceful religions out there. It teaches you to love all of God’s creations from dogs to plants to people whether they are Muslim or not. It teaches that God is the only one has the right to judge. There is a small (in comparison to the entire Islamic community) but strong group of Radicals (as other major religions have had) who believe they are doing God’s will by killing non-Muslims. They are altering the words of Islam so they can create terror. Osama Bin Ladden does not truly represent the Islamic community or the beliefs of Islam. It does NOT say in the Qur'an to kill non-Muslims (try taking a look). It teaches love and acceptance. You cannot say any differently unless you actually read the Qur'an and the teachings of Islam. If you don’t want to read the whole Qur'an I suggest you pick up “the Complete idiots guide to Islam” which was actually my first introduction and cleared up a lot of myths. We need to live as one in peace and harmony. If you turn on Islam as an “evil” of this world without seeking knowledge first then you are no different then people like Osama Bin Ladden in the way he turned on non-Muslims. Let them build the Mosque, and build Temples and Churches…everyone deserves a place to practice their beliefs. If you are Christian or Jewish or Buddhist, I say Great! They’re all great religions, I have chosen the path of Islam and I ask you to respect that as I will show respect to you whether you agree with me or not.

[Ahnold]

I am a Caucasian American born and raised, baptized Catholic, raised in a Catholic family. I have felt the power of God and feel very strongly in him. When I was in my late teens I realized that how could I say I believe in something when it is all I know? For years I studied the different religions of world, Islam, LDS, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. Reading from the Bible, the Qur’an, truly studying the beliefs of each religion. I great enjoyed the exploration that Buddhism leads the mind in to, I loved the scientific backing of Islam…every religion had it’s good points. I currently follow Sufism, which is version of Islam. What I’ve learned about Islam from studying it and actually taking the time to read from the Qur'an and see what the real meaning behind Islam is, is that it is one of the most loving and peaceful religions out there. It teaches you to love all of God’s creations from dogs to plants to people whether they are Muslim or not. It teaches that God is the only one has the right to judge. There is a small (in comparison to the entire Islamic community) but strong group of Radicals (as other major religions have had) who believe they are doing God’s will by killing non-Muslims. They are altering the words of Islam so they can create terror. Osama Bin Ladden does not truly represent the Islamic community or the beliefs of Islam. It does NOT say in the Qur'an to kill non-Muslims (try taking a look). It teaches love and acceptance. You cannot say any differently unless you actually read the Qur'an and the teachings of Islam. If you don’t want to read the whole Qur'an I suggest you pick up “the Complete idiots guide to Islam” which was actually my first introduction and cleared up a lot of myths. We need to live as one in peace and harmony. If you turn on Islam as an “evil” of this world without seeking knowledge first then you are no different then people like Osama Bin Ladden in the way he turned on non-Muslims. Let them build the Mosque, and build Temples and Churches…everyone deserves a place to practice their beliefs. If you are Christian or Jewish or Buddhist, I say Great! They’re all great religions, I have chosen the path of Islam and I ask you to respect that as I will show respect to you whether you agree with me or not.

Well said.

[tessieca]

Muslim AMERICANS, say it with me, Muslim-Americans. The two have coexisted for decades.

That doesn't seem to matter. Look at Al Qaeda declaring "all-out war against Shiites everywhere. Beware, there will be no mercy."

This particular religion seems to have many who believe in extremes that threaten others not of their exact belief.

Attributed to Al Zarqawi

[tessieca]

More charges against mosque leaders of fundraising for terrorists: Two Mosque Leaders Indicted.

Should the public ignore the propensity for mosques to be used for terrorism purposes?

[randb]

Should the public ignore the propensity for priests to molest children?

Nope and they haven't. Should the public ignore the propensity for mosques to be used for terrorism purposes?

[mylo]

Should the public ignore the propensity for mosques to be used for terrorism purposes?

[bishmasterb]

Should the public ignore the propensity for mosques to be used for terrorism purposes?

Something about correlation and causation comes to mind.

[bordercolliefan]

Something about correlation and causation comes to mind.

In this context, it doesn't matter whether it is correlation or causation.

It is like the airports directing special security attention to people with one-way tickets. The one-way tickets don't cause terrorism, but they are statistically correlated with it.

In any event, many Muslim intellectuals these days are beginning to disagree that it is a mere "correlation." For example, I just saw a Muslim scholar interviewed on t.v. the other day. She has written a book entitled, "The Trouble with Islam Today." She is a lifelong Muslim who believes that Islam in its "pure" form (i.e., the doctrines of the Quran, etc.) is a wonderful faith (and one she still adheres to), but that there are deep problems in the way the faith is practiced in terms of anti-Semitism, mysogyny, increasing extremism, etc. --Of course, she has been the subject of death threats and insults for speaking out.

[bishmasterb]

In this context, it doesn't matter whether it is correlation or causation. 

You know what, you're right.

So, similarly, I suggest we focus intense scrutiny on law schools. It has come to my attention that they are a breeding ground for politicians.

[tessieca]

Vinny will probably disagree, but creation of politicians doesn't tend to result in torture and slaughter.



Michael Scott (Steve Carell): we tell a lot of lawyer jokes.

Lawyer: Oh, I like lawyer jokes.

Michael: That's probably because you don't understand them.

[CostcoLover]

Nope and they haven't.  Should the public ignore the propensity for mosques to be used for terrorism purposes?

No and they haven't.

[LexHillsmom]

There is an article about the Folsom mosque in the Scene section of the Sac Bee today. Sorry I don't know how to paste in in -

Perhaps those that have concerns (and anyone else) may wish to join the Folsom Islamic Society's invitation to a Ramadan feast at the Folsom Community Center.

The article stated there is no foreign funding involved in the Folsom mosque and an Open House is being planned to address resident's concerns.

Mr. Siddique's comment in the article - "We believe if they know us, they won't be against us".

One of the best ways to freeze out extremism is to demonstrate to twisted fanatics that Americans support and embrace moderate Muslims who share the same values they do. I'm pretty sure if Folsom residents got to know many of their Muslim neighbors they'd be supportive and probably surprised at how much more in common they have with them than they previously believed.

Likewise, Muslims everywhere in this country should become active, integral community members and assimilate into American society and not isolate themselves so their neighbors can see what they're all about. After all, it is the duty of Muslims to contribute wholly and positively to the community and to defend the country they live in.