537 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

Excellent points, LexHillsMom. I was both pleased and intrigued to read the article in the Bee today.

I think part of the problem with the proposed mosque has been what we might call a "public relations" problem. Mosque leadership has kept a very low profile during the planning process and subsequent public uproar. I think many people have been reacting against the sense of not knowing who these people are. --Are they moderate, educated, Western-acculturated Muslims interested in becoming part of American society? Or, are they isolationist, super-conservative Muslims (as in the Lodi mosque) interested in walling themselves off from American society? Until now, the mosque has been a "black box." I am glad to see Mr. Siddique's efforts to reach out to the community.

One small point -- I didn't think the Ramadan feast was open to all; I thought it was by invitation only. The Open House will, however, be open to the community (date not specified). I certainly plan to attend.

Also, call me a lawyer, but I am not satisfied by the assurance that the mosque (confirmed to cost $2 million -- don't know if this includes the land) will receive no "foreign funding." It is very easy to pass money through an American organization and then call it an "American" source of funding. I would want to know more about exactly where the money is coming from.

[mylo]

Link to SacBee Article:
http://www.sacbee.co...-14521881c.html

[CostcoLover]

Sadly, due to the actions of some, some are now diametrically opposed to 1.3B people on the planet.

"For most of the past 13 years, the group has met in a nondescript office building behind an Arco service station. It has kept such a low profile that many Folsom residents did not know the Muslim organization existed."

Clearly we must focus our attention on eliminating Arco service stations to defend ourselves from the possibility of attack. I just hope that no attacks are planned from a Starbucks, we'd have to get rid of those and then we'd have so many cranky Americans that can't get their latte fix. I can't imagine the madness of it all.

But critics say they're against the mosque in their neighborhood, no matter what.

"I'm going to do everything I can to stop it," says Sharleen Stafford, who lives about a half-mile away from the mosque site at Levy and Sibley roads. Stafford says she is concerned about traffic and security, and mentions the investigation at Folsom's California State Prison, Sacramento, where an inmate was accused of orchestrating a terror plot

Well, I understand now... prison, mosque, same thing...obviously it's the same kind of folks... them terrorists are some smart folks... college degrees and all...always changing tactics... what's next? Plotting attacks from a library? A bookstore? We can live without that. Us Americans don't read much anyway....

"Siddique, 52, started the group 13 years ago after moving to the area to work as an engineer at Intel."

Aha! That must be the source of the problem... Intel ! If there were no Intel, no Arco station and no Folsom prison, well then, we'd be in the clear.... and lets not forget, 13yrs isn't a long time for terrorists to lie in wait for just the right opportunity. So longevity is not a safety factor even if he'd been here for 50yrs.... be (and remain) afraid, be very afraid...

"One of those is Kent Carlson, senior pastor at Oak Hills Church, who says he supports the group's right to practice their faith."

Those darn pastors always meddling....

"One of the principles of our nation is to protect the individual's right to believe whatever they want," Carlson says. "And as Christians, it is clear we were taught to love our neighbors."

Even if the neighbors are the enemy/terrorists? Who made up them rules?

[tessieca]

I don't see any females on their invitation list. My guess is that Kerri isn't invited.

[CostcoLover]

I don't see any females on their invitation list.  My guess is that Kerri isn't invited.

Maybe it's a religious thing...

[bordercolliefan]

Maybe it's a religious thing...

Here we go again. The fact that something is "a religious thing" doesn't excuse sexism, racism, terrorism, or whatever.

On the other hand, we don't yet know for a fact whether the post-Ramadan feast is restricted to men, or not. It would be interesting to know the answer to this.

[CostcoLover]

Here we go again.  The fact that something is "a religious thing" doesn't excuse sexism, racism, terrorism, or whatever. 

On the other hand, we don't yet know for a fact whether the post-Ramadan feast is restricted to men, or not.  It would be interesting to know the answer to this.

I wasn't excusing it, just offering up one of a limitless number of possibilities.

[mylo]

In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

The first is freedom of speech and expression -- everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way -- everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want -- which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants -- everywhere in the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear -- which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor-- anywhere in the world.

That is no vision of a distant millennium. It is a definite basis for a kind of world attainable in our own time and generation. That kind of world is the very antithesis of the so-called new order of tyranny which the dictators seek to create with the crash of a bomb.

To that new order we oppose the greater conception -- the moral order. A good society is able to face schemes of world domination and foreign revolutions alike without fear.

Since the beginning of our American history, we have been engaged in change -- in a perpetual peaceful revolution -- a revolution which goes on steadily, quietly adjusting itself to changing conditions -- without the concentration camp or the quick-lime in the ditch. The world order which we seek is the cooperation of free countries, working together in a friendly, civilized society.

This nation has placed its destiny in the hands and heads and hearts of its millions of free men and women; and its faith in freedom under the guidance of God. Freedom means the supremacy of human rights everywhere. Our support goes to those who struggle to gain those rights or keep them. Our strength is our unity of purpose.

To that high concept there can be no end save victory.

[tessieca]

Here we go again.  The fact that something is "a religious thing" doesn't excuse sexism, racism, terrorism, or whatever. 
It would be interesting to know the answer to this.

¡Exactamente!

[bordercolliefan]

we don't yet know for a fact whether the post-Ramadan feast is restricted to men, or not.  It would be interesting to know the answer to this.

I did a quick search concerning iftar feasts, and I did not find anything specifically excluding women. Quite the contrary, the meal is typically eaten as a family. Also, President Bush has in the past held iftars to reach out to the Muslim community, and he has invited female Muslim activists, among others.

There is a great deal of commentary in Muslim publications about women's obligation to ensure that the iftar meal is prepared promptly and properly... a little June Cleaver-ish, but hey, I prepare all the meals at my house, too...

More ominously, a woman is prohibited from participating in the Ramadan fast when she is menstruating... she is supposed to make up those days of fasting later. --Sounds like a throwback to the old ideas of women being unclean or cursed.

[CostcoLover]

Hmm, discrimination against women.... sounds familiar....

As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (NIV, 1 Timothy 2:11-12)

[Terry]

Hmm, discrimination against women.... sounds familiar....

    As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

    A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (NIV, 1 Timothy 2:11-12)

Oh, those Corinthians - they ended up making household counter tops, so what do they know about women???!

And that Timothy - he's a standup comic at Laughs Unlimited.........

[bordercolliefan]

Oh, those Corinthians - they ended up making household counter tops, so what do they know about women???!

Hee, hee, hee.

In all seriousness, though, Costco is right that there is plenty in the Bible that is appalling -- sexism, racism, stonings, you name it. The important point is that most mainstream Christian churches have repudiated the literal truth of the Bible and view its objectionable parts as a historical relic rather than an eternal imperative.

Unfortunately, some branches of Islam seem to embrace, rather than repudiate, the most medieval, discriminatory aspects of Islamic doctrine. That is why I have often compared them to fundamentalist Christian denominations such as the Southern Baptists. Both groups are benighted and dangerous.

[Ahnold]

Oh, those Corinthians - they ended up making household counter tops, so what do they know about women???!

And that Timothy - he's a standup comic at Laughs Unlimited.........

Come on Terry, get serious. Everyone knows the Corinthians are best known for their leather car seats! Didn't Ricardo Montalban teach you ANYTHING?? I mean, besides how to interact with hispanic midgets or wear fake chest pieces in outer space.

[forumreader]