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Arena / Prop Q&R Discussion


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#46 DrKoz23

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE(FiscalConservative @ Sep 23 2006, 10:44 AM) View Post

Even in the remote chance that these measures pass I'll move my shopping out of Sacramento County and into Placer County because the shopping in that County is actually closer to where I live in Folsom and I won't be paying the additional 1/4% sales tax. I can spend my money better than the Government can.


Why don't you do ALL your shopping in Placer county right now since their sales tax is currently 7.25 percent and Sacramento County is 7.75 percent? You could save 50 cents per $100 if you would go to Placer county right now.

Don't let some of the people on this board with the "us vs them" mentality find out that you might do or already do some of your spending outside Folsom. You are just supporting their city tax base instead of Folsom's... how dare you (sarcasm).



#47 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 02:26 PM

[quote name='jafount' date='Sep 23 2006, 01:04 PM' post='128822']
I'm a kings fan and I care about the Sacramento region. This is where I live and I want the best possible living for me and my family.
Such data is, again....Occam's Razor. This is exactly my point, thanks for helping make it. Since no such counter point exists (nor can it due to the intangibles) pointing the finger at one-sided data is moot.


I don't know if you made your point or not....but I am sure that you have convinced a majority on the forum of at least one thing! wacko.gif

#48 jafount

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 03:30 PM

That....? What? in spite of the fact that there is a button that invokes a javascript to make quoting easy, you still can't do it right? <shrug>
We all dream of a world of sunshine and rainbows and peace. The problem is some people think this would be a great place to live, while others think it would be a great place to pillage.


#49 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 04:54 PM

QUOTE(c_vanderveen @ Sep 23 2006, 11:27 AM) View Post

I'm a fan of our region and I want it to prosper. Whether it's the Kings or any other team, it doesn't matter. I'm curious why the arena opponents are so adamant about keeping our region a backwater instead of the vibrant destination it could be.


CV,

Just because a majority ( according to surveys) disagree with this proposal doesn't translate into what you are claiming.

Its my belief that there would be a majority, myself included, who are supportive of having a new Downtown Arena built. There are other proven ways to fund the construction of Arenas, you even gave us the example of Kansas City, yet the current BOS are the backwater politicians who can't think beyond raising taxes.
They are the ones you should be upset with for doing nothing for how long now? Then coming up with a plan that the voters won't support!

The Kansas City Arena funding is coming from an increase in car rental taxes and I believe an increase in hotel taxes. A significant portion of these taxes will be paid by out of town guests, not by the locals and not by the poor. Their local economy won't be restricted by additional sales taxes ours will.

After this measure fails....... the land will still be there then it will be up to those who want a new Arena to demand it be done right and hold those politicians who have sat on their duffs for years accountable!



#50 gottasmile

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 06:13 PM

While I am all for an arena in the downtown railyard, and a Kings fan, I don't think I can support this current deal on the ballot. With the Maloofs walking away from the table, the city not able to provide an arena blueprint that meets the needs of the Maloofs/Kings, and parking issues...it's not too hard to figure out that even the players in this game can't come to a mutual understanding. How are voters suppose to support something that cannot be supported by the key people involved in this 'deal'? Also, not all of the tax money raised is going to the arena. There is a big question as to what will happen to the remaining dollars raised. I don't like to leave loose ends and no one has said were the extra money will go....only that it will go to city and county.

I agree with another post response, in the fact that this deal was done to quickly with not a lot of forethought. I definitely feel we can still get an arena in the railyard and help revitalize downtown. But, I don't think these measures will do it.

#51 jafount

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 09:39 PM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Sep 23 2006, 05:54 PM) View Post

After this measure fails....... the land will still be there then it will be up to those who want a new Arena to demand it be done right and hold those politicians who have sat on their duffs for years accountable!


and then we can be just like KC. All dressed up and no place to go.
We all dream of a world of sunshine and rainbows and peace. The problem is some people think this would be a great place to live, while others think it would be a great place to pillage.


#52 billsfan

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 07:24 AM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Sep 23 2006, 12:01 AM) View Post

jafount,

My beliefs really aren't that complicated...I simply believe its wrong to force people to pay higher taxes and then use those funds to build something that some people (The poor) can not afford to attend. I really don't know and don't care if that is a liberal philosophy or a conservative philosophy...but to me its just seems wrong.



Robert - while I enjoy seeing your well stated positions, your tax believe seems so out of the line of reality. There are many uses of taxes that the poor cannot attend or do not want to use. Also, I'm sure you know of tax funded programs that would help the poor that they either choose not to use or are not aware of. I'm just believe this is more of a utopian ideal that a reality of the use of tax funds. Please don't continue to make everyone detail this for you, just accept that there are valid ways to look at the tax impact on both sides...

Now I know why many peope disagree on how this deal is structured. And for that I'd choose to really blame the elected official negotiating skills, and I'd hope that you push hard against them when they are up for reelection. I choose to believe they had our regions best interest in mind and negotiated the best deal they good, in timeframe they had. Yeah maybe you think there is a better way to fund this, but that would set us back another 5-10 years to make it happen. The way this is being funded is really not going to financially strap any individual and the greater good is obviously so much more valuable than the miniscule impact on any individual.

I believe you need to look at this from more of a vision, regional pride and overall downtown development perspective. I like downtwon and the entire Sacramento region. I'd like the arean to be closer to downtown to integrate the attendance at the events there with other dining and entertainment activities. I'd like to continue the momentum that is building up there with new housing, dining, and busines development going on. And that vibrant downtown, also allows me to enjoy my suburban life, not just from an entertainment perspective, but in a cultural, child education, labor enhancement, etc...perspective....



#53 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:24 AM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Sep 23 2006, 05:54 PM) View Post

CV,

Just because a majority ( according to surveys) disagree with this proposal doesn't translate into what you are claiming.

Its my belief that there would be a majority, myself included, who are supportive of having a new Downtown Arena built. There are other proven ways to fund the construction of Arenas, you even gave us the example of Kansas City,


Arenas using public funds
* Denver, Colorado — Denver is the only city in America to build three new sports stadiums within six years. In cooperation with new transportation, housing and retail initiatives, Denver’s downtown core is experiencing marked improvements across socioeconomic indicators.
* Cleveland, Ohio — The Gund Arena and Jacobs Field have contributed significantly to the resurgence of downtown Cleveland, and have been instrumental to restoring Cleveland’s image as a destination for tourism and business.
* Seattle, Washington — Qwest and Safeco Fields are two financially successful stadiums in a previously deteriorating sector of the city, anchoring planned progressive high-density and affordable urban housing, as well as restaurants, retail and tourism tie-ins such as cruise ships, and other growth.
* Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; Memphis, Tennessee; Indianapolis, Indiana; Charlotte, North Carolina; Kansas City, Missouri; San Jose, California

QUOTE(jafount @ Sep 23 2006, 10:39 PM) View Post

and then we can be just like KC. All dressed up and no place to go.


Charlotte: Hornets demand new stadium, don't get one, leave to NOLA. City then uses public funds to build arena, get Bobcats.

#54 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE(billsfan @ Sep 24 2006, 08:24 AM) View Post

Robert - while I enjoy seeing your well stated positions, your tax believe seems so out of the line of reality. There are many uses of taxes that the poor cannot attend or do not want to use. Also, I'm sure you know of tax funded programs that would help the poor that they either choose not to use or are not aware of. I'm just believe this is more of a utopian ideal that a reality of the use of tax funds. Please don't continue to make everyone detail this for you, just accept that there are valid ways to look at the tax impact on both sides...

Now I know why many peope disagree on how this deal is structured. And for that I'd choose to really blame the elected official negotiating skills, and I'd hope that you push hard against them when they are up for reelection. I choose to believe they had our regions best interest in mind and negotiated the best deal they good, in timeframe they had. Yeah maybe you think there is a better way to fund this, but that would set us back another 5-10 years to make it happen. The way this is being funded is really not going to financially strap any individual and the greater good is obviously so much more valuable than the miniscule impact on any individual.

I believe you need to look at this from more of a vision, regional pride and overall downtown development perspective. I like downtwon and the entire Sacramento region. I'd like the arean to be closer to downtown to integrate the attendance at the events there with other dining and entertainment activities. I'd like to continue the momentum that is building up there with new housing, dining, and busines development going on. And that vibrant downtown, also allows me to enjoy my suburban life, not just from an entertainment perspective, but in a cultural, child education, labor enhancement, etc...perspective....



Billsfan,

I do want to compliment you on a well thought out and written post.

I tend to be in agreement with you on many of your points.

Just a reminder this is an additional tax on top of the taxes that are already being collected. This isn't about shifting allocations of existing tax revenues from one program to another...its creating a new tax. If the BOS and Sac City decided to shift existing tax revenues to build this Arena....I wouldn't be opposed on the grounds it unfairly forces the poor to pay for something they can't attend. In the past I have asked for an example where the poor are being forced to pay for the specific building of something they can't afford to attend and have yet to get a correct answer.

I do agree that many of the existing programs that are funded by taxes are intended to assist the poor.

I'll confess I'm generally opposed to raising taxes. The only tax I usually support is raising property taxes to build new schools....as unfortunately under California law it is the way we fund new school construction. The law needs to be changed but until it does I will support raising taxes to build new schools as long as the trustees demonstrate an ability to deliver what they claim.

The BOS could increase a fee on rental cars, hotels and a tax on seating at arenas and pass this in a matter of months and then bond against that revenue stream to build a new Arena. The biggest obstacle to building a downtown Arena, besides the incompetent politicians, is the many unanswered questions about the land. No one truly knows what it will cost to clean up whatever is there and how long that will take.

Finally, I just can't support giving more tax dollars to incompetentancy. There has been talk about the need of an new Arena for nearly decade or longer! The BOS and SAC CITY have done nothing. Now to have this on again/off again deal being forced upon us as the best they can do at the last minute is just something we shouldn't support.

How in the world are we ever going to hold politicians accountable if we keep accepting incompentency? How are you ever going to have a vibrant Downtown with incompetent politicians?

Again I do appreciate your post and comments!

#55 econ101

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:38 PM

[size=7] flag.gif VOTE NO on Nov 7 on these measures. The details of the agreement do not add up to a win for Folsom, the County or the Region. I love the Kings but this agreement does not make sound fiscal policy for anyone over the life of this tax.

VOTE NO

flag.gif

#56 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 07:22 AM

Great article on the successes new arenas have brought Indianapolis and Memphis.

Whole article is here as Sacbee requires registration:

Arena debate: 2 cities enjoy vibrant scene
In Indianapolis and Memphis, palaces for sport energize downtown fortunes.
By Terri Hardy and Mary Lynne Vellinga - Bee Staff Writers

Last Updated 7:36 am PDT Monday, September 25, 2006
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A1



Sacramento city and county leaders are looking to replace Natomas' Arco Arena, shown here in August, with an arena downtown. Sacramento Bee/Bryan Patrick


A big man in a turquoise suit stands outside B.B. King's Blues Club and nods to a passer-by on world-famous Beale Street in Memphis, Tenn.

"How y'all doin?"

Three shirtless boys do handsprings down the street's center -- closed to cars during the evenings. Diners jam sidewalk cafes and shoppers eye the voodoo dolls on sale at Tater Red's. The street scene of this historic district thumps with blues music; the smoky smell of barbecue hangs in the air.
Click here for more...

Visitors, some sporting "Nashville Predator" jerseys, stream around the corner into the new FedExForum arena for an exhibition hockey game.

It's the kind of colorful, jostling weeknight scene that Sacramento leaders hope will one day blossom in downtown's long-dormant railyard, sparked by a new arena for the Kings.

The FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, represents the latest in NBA design -- an amenity-packed sports palace that adds to a city's downtown scene and reflects its culture and history. Built in 2004, it is the kind of facility Sacramento leaders and the Maloof family, owners of the Kings, have said they envision here -- but with a Sacramento twist, maybe something to do with a railroad theme or California wines.

The Maloofs also have toured Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis. Opened in 1999, Conseco created the template for Memphis and other new arenas being built around the country today.

Bee visits to both Indianapolis and Memphis show there is much to emulate about Conseco and the FedExForum. In pure economic terms, civic leaders in those cities say the arenas have been useful in providing economic boosts to urban redevelopment. But the buildings also are being envisioned as aesthetic blueprints for Sacramento. They are designed to not only wow patrons inside, but also to artfully blend into their environments and complement surrounding neighborhoods.

"You can see a lot of one in the other, but they've all got their own personalities," said Tom Rutledge, vice president of operations for Pacers Sports and Entertainment, which operates Conseco Fieldhouse and owns the NBA Pacers and WNBA Fever.

These new arenas share the same basic business mission as Arco Arena -- hosting basketball games, concerts and shows -- but that's about where the resemblance ends.

While Arco sits like a marooned spaceship amid acres of surface parking in North Natomas, Conseco snuggles up to the sidewalk in downtown Indianapolis, its red brick and limestone blending into the 19th century industrial buildings nearby, many of which are now being converted into loft-style condominiums.

The forest-green steel and ads painted onto the red brick walls are meant to evoke on old-time gymnasium in Indiana, the nation's hoops heartland.

Conseco's soaring, steel-trussed lobby is open to the public during the day. People can buy jerseys in the team store, watch the Pacers practice in a glass-enclosed court for free or grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

New bars and restaurants have sprung up nearby. Late into the evening, knots of diners and revelers now traipse along the downtown sidewalks between watering holes and steak joints packed into the city's tight, walkable central district.

In Memphis, the arena also is squeezed into downtown, with the goal of enlivening the street scene around it. Andy Dolich, president of business operations for the Grizzlies, loves the team's new digs.

The team offices are in a building next to the arena, with a Smithsonian-created Rock N Soul Museum on the ground level, and a Gibson guitar factory and showroom across the street -- not to mention gritty and charming Beale Street, one of the state's top tourist attractions, around the corner.

"If you were going to dream up the perfect circumstance, we have it here," Dolich said.

FedExForum is "neotraditional" -- a striking blend of old and new. The façade is sleek and mostly glass, with exposed steel beams and soaring windows, letting in light and allowing sweeping views of the historic Beale area. Exterior touches of brick, as well as brick-colored metal panels on the exterior, echo the surrounding historical structures.

Translucent panels jutting out from the top -- the pricey "halo" -- lessen the heaviness of the structure and create the illusion of less height, said local architect James Murray, whose firm, Self Tucker, designed the building's exterior finishes.

Both the FedExForum and Conseco were built with hundreds of millions of dollars in public money -- a public subsidy similar to what is proposed for the Sacramento Kings. Many residents of those cities say the spending on sports was worthwhile.

Marek Rombel, a brand manager with drug giant Eli Lilly and Co., lives in the wealthy Indianapolis suburb of Carmel. Rombel said Conseco and a variety of other new downtown amenities have completely transformed central Indianapolis in the past 15 years.

"The (public) investment in the sports facilities has been incredibly important," he said. "It's drawn people from Carmel and other parts of Indianapolis, and it's made them stay."

Sports are huge in Indianapolis, and so is the public spending on them. A few blocks south of Conseco Field, nine giant cranes last week crawled over the construction site of a new $675 million stadium being built for the NFL Colts.

The public is shouldering most of the burden for the new facility through a variety of new taxes, including an increased levy on food and drink in restaurants throughout an eight-county area.

Unlike voters in Sacramento, the Indianapolis public was never asked to weigh in at the ballot box on whether they wanted to spend their tax dollars this way. Neither were voters in Memphis. Their elected officials on the state and local level decided for them.

"It didn't go to a referendum; that's not our process here," said Julia Watson, vice president of marketing for Indianapolis Downtown Inc., a public-private partnership charged with developing, managing and marketing downtown Indy.

"I don't know how anything ever gets passed on a referendum," Watson added.

She said Conseco is one piece of an economic development puzzle that Indianapolis leaders started to put in place 20 years ago, when they decided to make their city the "amateur sports capital" of the nation. They have since landed the NCAA headquarters and hosted numerous sporting events. A new state park along the White River is studded with new cultural venues, and city visitors stroll along an old 19th century canal renovated into a charming district where new housing and fountains line the water's edge.

The developer of Sacramento's downtown railyard, Thomas Enterprises, has included a similar residential district built along a manmade canal in its plan.

On Indianapolis' South Street, across from the massive Lucas Oil Stadium construction site, resident Chris Loggins said he has no problem with his tax dollars paying for Conseco Fieldhouse and a replacement to the RCA Dome, which opened in 1984 and was initially called the Hoosier Dome. Getting rid of the dome will make way for the city to expand its convention center, another taxpayer-funded project.

"Everybody's a Colts fan, and everybody's a Pacers fan," Loggins said.

There are voices of dissent, however. Away from the tall buildings and restaurant chains of downtown, in the city's Massachusetts Avenue arts district, Ron Spencer, executive director of the Theatre on the Square, bemoaned the city's obsession with professional sports.

"For us, any kind of major sports activity draws attention away from the arts," Spencer said. "We are absolutely brutalized by the amount of attention given to sports in this city."

Like Indianapolis, downtown Memphis was undergoing its own downtown renaissance before the FedExForum was constructed. But business leaders said the arena has helped speed building and boosted confidence.

More than $2.5 billion in new or approved projects have landed in the city's central core, said Jeff Sanford, who heads the Center City Commission, a public agency that oversees redevelopment.

Echoing Sacramento's own proposed twin condominium and hotel towers, Memphis developers have proposed twin 32-story luxury condos.

Those plans so impressed John Moore, president of the Memphis Regional Chamber of Commerce, that he and his wife "are seriously considering a move" from their suburban Germantown home.

Moore said he believes the presence of the Grizzlies also was a factor in convincing International Paper to move its headquarters to the city.

"This was the first Fortune 500 company to move to the South in 20 years," Moore said. "These people are asking their top executives to move here and they have to offer a certain quality of life. If there's no professional sports, it's less attractive."

Lured by the FedExForum, Tennesse's first Westin Hotel is being built across the street, along with a new parking garage and retail complex.

The city also is looking at redeveloping the abandoned lots and industrial businesses that fill 150 acres adjacent to the FedExForum.

"No question, these projects wouldn't have happened without the FedExForum," Sanford said.

#57 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 07:48 AM

QUOTE(c_vanderveen @ Sep 25 2006, 08:22 AM) View Post

Great article on the successes new arenas have brought Indianapolis and Memphis.

Whole article is here as Sacbee requires registration:

Arena debate: 2 cities enjoy vibrant scene
In Indianapolis and Memphis, palaces for sport energize downtown fortunes.
By Terri Hardy and Mary Lynne Vellinga - Bee Staff Writers

Last Updated 7:36 am PDT Monday, September 25, 2006
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A1
Sacramento city and county leaders are looking to replace Natomas' Arco Arena, shown here in August, with an arena downtown. Sacramento Bee/Bryan Patrick


A big man in a turquoise suit stands outside B.B. King's Blues Club and nods to a passer-by on world-famous Beale Street in Memphis, Tenn.

"How y'all doin?"

Three shirtless boys do handsprings down the street's center -- closed to cars during the evenings. Diners jam sidewalk cafes and shoppers eye the voodoo dolls on sale at Tater Red's. The street scene of this historic district thumps with blues music; the smoky smell of barbecue hangs in the air.
Click here for more...

Visitors, some sporting "Nashville Predator" jerseys, stream around the corner into the new FedExForum arena for an exhibition hockey game.

It's the kind of colorful, jostling weeknight scene that Sacramento leaders hope will one day blossom in downtown's long-dormant railyard, sparked by a new arena for the Kings.

The FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, represents the latest in NBA design -- an amenity-packed sports palace that adds to a city's downtown scene and reflects its culture and history. Built in 2004, it is the kind of facility Sacramento leaders and the Maloof family, owners of the Kings, have said they envision here -- but with a Sacramento twist, maybe something to do with a railroad theme or California wines.

The Maloofs also have toured Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis. Opened in 1999, Conseco created the template for Memphis and other new arenas being built around the country today.

Bee visits to both Indianapolis and Memphis show there is much to emulate about Conseco and the FedExForum. In pure economic terms, civic leaders in those cities say the arenas have been useful in providing economic boosts to urban redevelopment. But the buildings also are being envisioned as aesthetic blueprints for Sacramento. They are designed to not only wow patrons inside, but also to artfully blend into their environments and complement surrounding neighborhoods.

"You can see a lot of one in the other, but they've all got their own personalities," said Tom Rutledge, vice president of operations for Pacers Sports and Entertainment, which operates Conseco Fieldhouse and owns the NBA Pacers and WNBA Fever.

These new arenas share the same basic business mission as Arco Arena -- hosting basketball games, concerts and shows -- but that's about where the resemblance ends.

While Arco sits like a marooned spaceship amid acres of surface parking in North Natomas, Conseco snuggles up to the sidewalk in downtown Indianapolis, its red brick and limestone blending into the 19th century industrial buildings nearby, many of which are now being converted into loft-style condominiums.

The forest-green steel and ads painted onto the red brick walls are meant to evoke on old-time gymnasium in Indiana, the nation's hoops heartland.

Conseco's soaring, steel-trussed lobby is open to the public during the day. People can buy jerseys in the team store, watch the Pacers practice in a glass-enclosed court for free or grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

New bars and restaurants have sprung up nearby. Late into the evening, knots of diners and revelers now traipse along the downtown sidewalks between watering holes and steak joints packed into the city's tight, walkable central district.

In Memphis, the arena also is squeezed into downtown, with the goal of enlivening the street scene around it. Andy Dolich, president of business operations for the Grizzlies, loves the team's new digs.

The team offices are in a building next to the arena, with a Smithsonian-created Rock N Soul Museum on the ground level, and a Gibson guitar factory and showroom across the street -- not to mention gritty and charming Beale Street, one of the state's top tourist attractions, around the corner.

"If you were going to dream up the perfect circumstance, we have it here," Dolich said.

FedExForum is "neotraditional" -- a striking blend of old and new. The façade is sleek and mostly glass, with exposed steel beams and soaring windows, letting in light and allowing sweeping views of the historic Beale area. Exterior touches of brick, as well as brick-colored metal panels on the exterior, echo the surrounding historical structures.

Translucent panels jutting out from the top -- the pricey "halo" -- lessen the heaviness of the structure and create the illusion of less height, said local architect James Murray, whose firm, Self Tucker, designed the building's exterior finishes.

Both the FedExForum and Conseco were built with hundreds of millions of dollars in public money -- a public subsidy similar to what is proposed for the Sacramento Kings. Many residents of those cities say the spending on sports was worthwhile.

Marek Rombel, a brand manager with drug giant Eli Lilly and Co., lives in the wealthy Indianapolis suburb of Carmel. Rombel said Conseco and a variety of other new downtown amenities have completely transformed central Indianapolis in the past 15 years.

"The (public) investment in the sports facilities has been incredibly important," he said. "It's drawn people from Carmel and other parts of Indianapolis, and it's made them stay."

Sports are huge in Indianapolis, and so is the public spending on them. A few blocks south of Conseco Field, nine giant cranes last week crawled over the construction site of a new $675 million stadium being built for the NFL Colts.

The public is shouldering most of the burden for the new facility through a variety of new taxes, including an increased levy on food and drink in restaurants throughout an eight-county area.

Unlike voters in Sacramento, the Indianapolis public was never asked to weigh in at the ballot box on whether they wanted to spend their tax dollars this way. Neither were voters in Memphis. Their elected officials on the state and local level decided for them.

"It didn't go to a referendum; that's not our process here," said Julia Watson, vice president of marketing for Indianapolis Downtown Inc., a public-private partnership charged with developing, managing and marketing downtown Indy.

"I don't know how anything ever gets passed on a referendum," Watson added.

She said Conseco is one piece of an economic development puzzle that Indianapolis leaders started to put in place 20 years ago, when they decided to make their city the "amateur sports capital" of the nation. They have since landed the NCAA headquarters and hosted numerous sporting events. A new state park along the White River is studded with new cultural venues, and city visitors stroll along an old 19th century canal renovated into a charming district where new housing and fountains line the water's edge.

The developer of Sacramento's downtown railyard, Thomas Enterprises, has included a similar residential district built along a manmade canal in its plan.

On Indianapolis' South Street, across from the massive Lucas Oil Stadium construction site, resident Chris Loggins said he has no problem with his tax dollars paying for Conseco Fieldhouse and a replacement to the RCA Dome, which opened in 1984 and was initially called the Hoosier Dome. Getting rid of the dome will make way for the city to expand its convention center, another taxpayer-funded project.

"Everybody's a Colts fan, and everybody's a Pacers fan," Loggins said.

There are voices of dissent, however. Away from the tall buildings and restaurant chains of downtown, in the city's Massachusetts Avenue arts district, Ron Spencer, executive director of the Theatre on the Square, bemoaned the city's obsession with professional sports.

"For us, any kind of major sports activity draws attention away from the arts," Spencer said. "We are absolutely brutalized by the amount of attention given to sports in this city."

Like Indianapolis, downtown Memphis was undergoing its own downtown renaissance before the FedExForum was constructed. But business leaders said the arena has helped speed building and boosted confidence.

More than $2.5 billion in new or approved projects have landed in the city's central core, said Jeff Sanford, who heads the Center City Commission, a public agency that oversees redevelopment.

Echoing Sacramento's own proposed twin condominium and hotel towers, Memphis developers have proposed twin 32-story luxury condos.

Those plans so impressed John Moore, president of the Memphis Regional Chamber of Commerce, that he and his wife "are seriously considering a move" from their suburban Germantown home.

Moore said he believes the presence of the Grizzlies also was a factor in convincing International Paper to move its headquarters to the city.

"This was the first Fortune 500 company to move to the South in 20 years," Moore said. "These people are asking their top executives to move here and they have to offer a certain quality of life. If there's no professional sports, it's less attractive."

Lured by the FedExForum, Tennesse's first Westin Hotel is being built across the street, along with a new parking garage and retail complex.

The city also is looking at redeveloping the abandoned lots and industrial businesses that fill 150 acres adjacent to the FedExForum.

"No question, these projects wouldn't have happened without the FedExForum," Sanford said.


CV,

This is a good article and does illustrate what can happen when its done correctly.

Hopefully everyone is paying attention to the fact that these officials didn't go to voters to ask them to raise sales taxes as the only mechanism for funding these projects. These elected officials are wise enough to understand that raising sales taxes....takes money out of the economy which restricts what they are ultimately trying to accomplish.

Fortunately, the informed knowledgeable voters in Sacramento county will soon show the elected officials that they won't support doing things the wrong way. Hopefully the elected officials will pay attention....if not then the voters!

#58 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:23 AM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Sep 25 2006, 08:48 AM) View Post

CV,

This is a good article and does illustrate what can happen when its done correctly.

Hopefully everyone is paying attention to the fact that these officials didn't go to voters to ask them to raise sales taxes as the only mechanism for funding these projects. These elected officials are wise enough to understand that raising sales taxes....takes money out of the economy which restricts what they are ultimately trying to accomplish.



Actually, Robert, The Memphis Grizzlies paid a total of $0 for the arena.

#59 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:24 AM

Great article on the successes new arenas have brought Indianapolis and Memphis.

Whole article is here as Sacbee requires registration:

Arena debate: 2 cities enjoy vibrant scene
In Indianapolis and Memphis, palaces for sport energize downtown fortunes.
By Terri Hardy and Mary Lynne Vellinga - Bee Staff Writers

Last Updated 7:36 am PDT Monday, September 25, 2006
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A1
Sacramento city and county leaders are looking to replace Natomas' Arco Arena, shown here in August, with an arena downtown. Sacramento Bee/Bryan Patrick


A big man in a turquoise suit stands outside B.B. King's Blues Club and nods to a passer-by on world-famous Beale Street in Memphis, Tenn.

"How y'all doin?"

Three shirtless boys do handsprings down the street's center -- closed to cars during the evenings. Diners jam sidewalk cafes and shoppers eye the voodoo dolls on sale at Tater Red's. The street scene of this historic district thumps with blues music; the smoky smell of barbecue hangs in the air.
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Visitors, some sporting "Nashville Predator" jerseys, stream around the corner into the new FedExForum arena for an exhibition hockey game.

It's the kind of colorful, jostling weeknight scene that Sacramento leaders hope will one day blossom in downtown's long-dormant railyard, sparked by a new arena for the Kings.

The FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, represents the latest in NBA design -- an amenity-packed sports palace that adds to a city's downtown scene and reflects its culture and history. Built in 2004, it is the kind of facility Sacramento leaders and the Maloof family, owners of the Kings, have said they envision here -- but with a Sacramento twist, maybe something to do with a railroad theme or California wines.

The Maloofs also have toured Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis. Opened in 1999, Conseco created the template for Memphis and other new arenas being built around the country today.

Bee visits to both Indianapolis and Memphis show there is much to emulate about Conseco and the FedExForum. In pure economic terms, civic leaders in those cities say the arenas have been useful in providing economic boosts to urban redevelopment. But the buildings also are being envisioned as aesthetic blueprints for Sacramento. They are designed to not only wow patrons inside, but also to artfully blend into their environments and complement surrounding neighborhoods.

"You can see a lot of one in the other, but they've all got their own personalities," said Tom Rutledge, vice president of operations for Pacers Sports and Entertainment, which operates Conseco Fieldhouse and owns the NBA Pacers and WNBA Fever.

These new arenas share the same basic business mission as Arco Arena -- hosting basketball games, concerts and shows -- but that's about where the resemblance ends.

While Arco sits like a marooned spaceship amid acres of surface parking in North Natomas, Conseco snuggles up to the sidewalk in downtown Indianapolis, its red brick and limestone blending into the 19th century industrial buildings nearby, many of which are now being converted into loft-style condominiums.

The forest-green steel and ads painted onto the red brick walls are meant to evoke on old-time gymnasium in Indiana, the nation's hoops heartland.

Conseco's soaring, steel-trussed lobby is open to the public during the day. People can buy jerseys in the team store, watch the Pacers practice in a glass-enclosed court for free or grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

New bars and restaurants have sprung up nearby. Late into the evening, knots of diners and revelers now traipse along the downtown sidewalks between watering holes and steak joints packed into the city's tight, walkable central district.

In Memphis, the arena also is squeezed into downtown, with the goal of enlivening the street scene around it. Andy Dolich, president of business operations for the Grizzlies, loves the team's new digs.

The team offices are in a building next to the arena, with a Smithsonian-created Rock N Soul Museum on the ground level, and a Gibson guitar factory and showroom across the street -- not to mention gritty and charming Beale Street, one of the state's top tourist attractions, around the corner.

"If you were going to dream up the perfect circumstance, we have it here," Dolich said.

FedExForum is "neotraditional" -- a striking blend of old and new. The façade is sleek and mostly glass, with exposed steel beams and soaring windows, letting in light and allowing sweeping views of the historic Beale area. Exterior touches of brick, as well as brick-colored metal panels on the exterior, echo the surrounding historical structures.

Translucent panels jutting out from the top -- the pricey "halo" -- lessen the heaviness of the structure and create the illusion of less height, said local architect James Murray, whose firm, Self Tucker, designed the building's exterior finishes.

Both the FedExForum and Conseco were built with hundreds of millions of dollars in public money -- a public subsidy similar to what is proposed for the Sacramento Kings. Many residents of those cities say the spending on sports was worthwhile.

Marek Rombel, a brand manager with drug giant Eli Lilly and Co., lives in the wealthy Indianapolis suburb of Carmel. Rombel said Conseco and a variety of other new downtown amenities have completely transformed central Indianapolis in the past 15 years.

"The (public) investment in the sports facilities has been incredibly important," he said. "It's drawn people from Carmel and other parts of Indianapolis, and it's made them stay."

Sports are huge in Indianapolis, and so is the public spending on them. A few blocks south of Conseco Field, nine giant cranes last week crawled over the construction site of a new $675 million stadium being built for the NFL Colts.

The public is shouldering most of the burden for the new facility through a variety of new taxes, including an increased levy on food and drink in restaurants throughout an eight-county area.

Unlike voters in Sacramento, the Indianapolis public was never asked to weigh in at the ballot box on whether they wanted to spend their tax dollars this way. Neither were voters in Memphis. Their elected officials on the state and local level decided for them.

"It didn't go to a referendum; that's not our process here," said Julia Watson, vice president of marketing for Indianapolis Downtown Inc., a public-private partnership charged with developing, managing and marketing downtown Indy.

"I don't know how anything ever gets passed on a referendum," Watson added.

She said Conseco is one piece of an economic development puzzle that Indianapolis leaders started to put in place 20 years ago, when they decided to make their city the "amateur sports capital" of the nation. They have since landed the NCAA headquarters and hosted numerous sporting events. A new state park along the White River is studded with new cultural venues, and city visitors stroll along an old 19th century canal renovated into a charming district where new housing and fountains line the water's edge.

The developer of Sacramento's downtown railyard, Thomas Enterprises, has included a similar residential district built along a manmade canal in its plan.

On Indianapolis' South Street, across from the massive Lucas Oil Stadium construction site, resident Chris Loggins said he has no problem with his tax dollars paying for Conseco Fieldhouse and a replacement to the RCA Dome, which opened in 1984 and was initially called the Hoosier Dome. Getting rid of the dome will make way for the city to expand its convention center, another taxpayer-funded project.

"Everybody's a Colts fan, and everybody's a Pacers fan," Loggins said.

There are voices of dissent, however. Away from the tall buildings and restaurant chains of downtown, in the city's Massachusetts Avenue arts district, Ron Spencer, executive director of the Theatre on the Square, bemoaned the city's obsession with professional sports.

"For us, any kind of major sports activity draws attention away from the arts," Spencer said. "We are absolutely brutalized by the amount of attention given to sports in this city."

Like Indianapolis, downtown Memphis was undergoing its own downtown renaissance before the FedExForum was constructed. But business leaders said the arena has helped speed building and boosted confidence.

More than $2.5 billion in new or approved projects have landed in the city's central core, said Jeff Sanford, who heads the Center City Commission, a public agency that oversees redevelopment.

Echoing Sacramento's own proposed twin condominium and hotel towers, Memphis developers have proposed twin 32-story luxury condos.

Those plans so impressed John Moore, president of the Memphis Regional Chamber of Commerce, that he and his wife "are seriously considering a move" from their suburban Germantown home.

Moore said he believes the presence of the Grizzlies also was a factor in convincing International Paper to move its headquarters to the city.

"This was the first Fortune 500 company to move to the South in 20 years," Moore said. "These people are asking their top executives to move here and they have to offer a certain quality of life. If there's no professional sports, it's less attractive."

Lured by the FedExForum, Tennesse's first Westin Hotel is being built across the street, along with a new parking garage and retail complex.

The city also is looking at redeveloping the abandoned lots and industrial businesses that fill 150 acres adjacent to the FedExForum.

"No question, these projects wouldn't have happened without the FedExForum," Sanford said.

#60 cw68

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:39 AM

That's what I'm talking about!




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