70 replies to this topic

[YAYUH]

I would like to start off by saying that :

1. If you guys do not know the race of the family don't start off by saying, "middle eastern," " dark skinned people"
2. If you think this happened because of some little teenager running and putting a little fire into the van, you are wrong. Very wrong.
3. Dont assume what you do not know. It is the wrong way to go.

I am a neighbor of the family where this took place, your guys stories are somewhat similar, yet wrong.

It happend that some guy broke a window of the van, threw the bomb into it and ran off after seeing a neighbor come outside to turn off his car alarm because it was set off as a result of the explosion. The guy was seen run off. The neighbor could not recognize the face, but did notice the guy was white.

Would you call this a hate crime? Taking under consideration that the family to which the van belonged to are Indo-Fijian [indians who moved to fiji years ago]

Yes I live on that street and no I have not seen a person jogging at 3 am, would you jog at 3 am in this fall season? No you would not, because you all are lazy.

I would like to end this by saying

DO NOT criticize this familys color, or race. If you do, you are a racist. You guys went on and said how some racist person did this and ended up being a hate crime.

That is all, have fun.

[SacKen]

[Steve Heard]

1. If you guys do not know the race of the family don't start off by saying, "middle eastern," " dark skinned people"

DO NOT criticize this familys color, or race. If you do, you are a racist. You guys went on and said how some racist person did this and ended up being a hate crime.

I think you misunderstand. No one was criticizing the victim's race. I saw the victim on TV, and knew found out her name.

I did assume is that if it is indeed a racist hate crime, that the racist perpetrator either mistook the victim for middle eastern or muslim, as have many ignorant racists who have attacked people who 'look muslim' in this country for that very reason, or he did know that they weren't middle eastern or muslim, but hated them any way.

[ManSinha]

Personally, I think there are two issues here, maybe inter-related but somehow distinct as well: One is that this was not an "accident" byany stretch of imagination ergo, a crime was committed. That much appears to be clear contrary to someone posting in the wee hours of the incident.

The second, perhaps more important, but more murky issue is that of a racist presumption which might lead to the characterization of the incident as a hate crime.

Our child is in pre school and my wife remarked that well over 50% of the children and parents appeared to be of East Indian/Asian extraction (I am using the term broadly). Immigrants, especially professionals, are a fact of life in virtually every community and the sooner we can accept this reality in the larger societal sense, the better we shall be.

That said, I can understand the emotions of some folks when you hear of outsourcing of jobs and the influx of what some term cheaper labor.

[Steve Heard]

Our child is in pre school and my wife remarked that well over 50% of the children and parents appeared to be of East Indian/Asian extraction (I am using the term broadly). Immigrants, especially professionals, are a fact of life in virtually every community and the sooner we can accept this reality in the larger societal sense, the better we shall be.

That said, I can understand the emotions of some folks when you hear of outsourcing of jobs and the influx of what some term cheaper labor.

Immigrants a fact of life? You bet! Our country was founded and built by immigrants! Unless you are Native American, your family emmigrated here.

I CAN NOT understand the emotions of some folks when I hear of outsourcing jobs and influx of cheap labor, if their reaction is violent, or racist, or exclusionary.

I worked for United Airlines in their reservations department. We had offices allover the country; San Fran, Seattle, LA, Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Atlanta, etc. Today, nearly all of those offices are gone. There are two reservations centers in India, a lot of what people call reservations for can be handled by automated attendants, and the internet takes care of much of the rest. All of this was done because the public wants cheaper fares, the stockholders want profits, and management recognized that what we were doing wasn't rocket science. Should I be angry at immigrants?

If I am angry about cheap labor and outsourced jobs, how does firebombing an innocent woman help my cause?

[ManSinha]

If I am angry about cheap labor and outsourced jobs, how does firebombing an innocent woman help my cause?

The day people realize that there is no connection, would be the day that we probably do not have to discuss the topic on a message board

[bordercolliefan]

I think you misunderstand. No one was criticizing the victim's race. I saw the victim on TV, and knew found out her name.

The victim was a woman! The person running from the scene was a MALE!! What more do we need to know?

It was a gender hate crime!!! Yet another chapter in society's hatred of women!! To all those who think "it can't happen here," don't you know that EVERY DAY right here in Folsom women are cat-called, objectified, and abused? This was obviously a crime of misogyny-- if you can't see that, you're just close-minded.

(Yes, I am being sarcastic.)

[YAYUH]

The victim was a woman! The person running from the scene was a MALE!! What more do we need to know?

It was a gender hate crime!!! Yet another chapter in society's hatred of women!! To all those who think "it can't happen here," don't you know that EVERY DAY right here in Folsom women are cat-called, objectified, and abused? This was obviously a crime of misogyny-- if you can't see that, you're just close-minded.

(Yes, I am being sarcastic.)

WOW, you people seriously need to get your facts straight!

There was no ONE victim. The whole family was affected by it. The girl on the news is their daughter. The boy who talked on the news is their son. They are brother and sister. The parents didn't talk on the news. Only the two children did. How could it have been a gender hate crime?!?

[Duke]

Wow.
How about waiting for a thorough, factual, and impartial police investigation?
Some of you folks are obviously watching too much television...

[ESP Guy]

Yes you are missing somthing. Let me restate it once again. If someone knows the victim- knows their race, does not like them - commits a crime against them - that'd be a racial crime - based on their hatred of that race.

If some one committed a crime - vandelism for example and had no clue who the owner was - then thats not a racial crime

...the key factor - pre-planned crime BASED on the person being comprimised

hope that helps clear things up. Not sure why you didn't get it the first time or think its insane.
Thats exactly what I meant - thanks Steve

I see what you are trying to say, but again you are not stating that the crime is based on race, you are just saying the person is not liked but the race is known. Do you see the problem with the wording or lack there of?

The victim was a woman! The person running from the scene was a MALE!! What more do we need to know?

It was a gender hate crime!!! Yet another chapter in society's hatred of women!! To all those who think "it can't happen here," don't you know that EVERY DAY right here in Folsom women are cat-called, objectified, and abused? This was obviously a crime of misogyny-- if you can't see that, you're just close-minded.

(Yes, I am being sarcastic.)

EXACTLY!!!! DING DING DING!!!

People are so quick to assume that if a Person commits any crime, slander, etc against some one of the opposite (race, religion, sex, creed, age, disability) then it MUST naturally be a result of said difference... get clue.

[Al Waysrite]

Wow.
How about waiting for a thorough, factual, and impartial police investigation?
Some of you folks are obviously watching too much television...

But waiting for facts to come out won't support the agenda of certain persons here.

[Steve Heard]

People are so quick to assume that if a Person commits any crime, slander, etc against some one of the opposite (race, religion, sex, creed, age, disability) then it MUST naturally be a result of said difference... get clue.

Sad, but true.

I think that is based on the history of such attacks, and the mood and attitude of some people toward immigrants and other minorities.

Such assumptions can be costly, as was the case when Timothy McVeigh bombed the Murro building in Oklahoma City. A US Congressman from Oklahoma publicly announced that Muslim students were the prime suspects. An American Citizen of Jordanian ancestry, who had a long-planned trip to visit relatives, was arrested as a suspect.

So, yes, it is important that we withhold our judgement and accusations, but as the story says, police are investigating it as a hate crime.

But waiting for facts to come out won't support the agenda of certain persons here.

If the agenda is to acknowledge that racism and ingnorance can lead to hate crimes, then yes, I have an agenda.

Others have the opposite agenda.

[DalOwnerX3]

WOW, you people seriously need to get your facts straight!

THERE was no ONE victim. It was the whole family. They were affected by it. The person on the news, the girl, is the daughter. The guy that was shown talking on the news, is the son. They are brother and sister. The parents didnt talk on the news. The two children did. It was not a gender hate crime.

[sarcasm]
Ah. I see it now! A familly was targeted. I think the male is gay and upset about not having gay marraiges.
[/sarcasm]

[bishmasterb]

Clearly the perpetrator was a cyborg and is frustrated with Folsom's "bio-centered" atmosphere.

[bordercolliefan]

Very clever, Dal and Bish!