165 replies to this topic

[FolsomJunior00]

And one more thing. Two of my very good friends at FHS were boys who walked in on the two people in question. They claim there was no struggle, and the girl stepped on the toliet as they walked in. This is coming from my two good friends, who were questions throughout an entire school day about the incident. I doubt they are lying if someone else heard the same thing

[pampChefLady]

I have no information on this case whatsoever, but I want to address one topic that keeps recurring in various posts: fighting back. If a person has never been a victim of something, it's easy to think you'd fight back and not let it happen. But in reality, many people aren't prepared to resist - whether it be a rapist, kidnapper, robber, or bully. You've probably heard of "fight or flight" - the two options people face when confronted with danger. Well, if everyone fought back all the time, there'd only be "fight." My point is, in a moment of crisis, with adrenaline pumping, the mind doesn't always respond logically, and a person may very well think that their best option is not to fight. This is obviously true in situations where a child instinctively does what an adult tells them to, but it is also true in situations where a person may think they'll get in trouble for some infraction they committed that led to encounter. Looking back, we can say that it'd be better to get caught for skipping class than to be raped, but in that moment, well, you get the idea.

My point in all of this is that you can't use a person's lack of "fighting back" as proof that they weren't mistreated against their will. In fact, that type of thinking runs very close to the "Look how she dressed, of course she wanted it" argurment. Neither of which are fair.

Hoping to open minds to different perspectives,
Lisa

[Brett911]

I know nothing of the case at hand and am providing this info to help inform posters in this forum what rape is as defined in California law.

Rape as defined by California.

California Penal Code Section 261-269
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information obtained at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

CALIFORNIA CODES
PENAL CODE
SECTION 261-269



261. (a) Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a
person not the spouse of the perpetrator, under any of the following
circumstances:

You can read the rest at:
http://caselaw.lp.fi...en/261-269.html

[slowthegrowth]

OMG! Please....readers....writers....contributors....EVERYONE:

The previous post is a shining example of bad form when it comes to these boards. NO ONE is going to read that whole thing....my finger got tired from trying to scroll through it.

I'm sure there was a good point in there somewhere about the Ca. rape law that applied to this case, but I'll be darned if I know where it is. Feel free to recap/summarize points and connect them to this thread.

Sorry, but that was the mother of all cut/pastes!

[Steve Heard]

Lisa

Excellent points.

Fighting back is easier said than done.

When confronted, the rape victim may feel fear, shock, surprise, and confusion. It can happen before one knows it.

Someone close to me was raped many years ago. She never saw her attacker. When he was caught, she was so fearful of seeing him. When she finally did, she discovered that he was a skinny, 19 year old kid. She later told me, "If I'd known that's who was doing it, I would have turned around and beat the crap out of him".

Whether she would have or not isn't the point. The point is that rape victims are often stunned, and sometimes even cooperate, to get it over with, and to get away alive.

JR, you say that your friends walked in on them and that the girl stepped up on to the toilet, presumably so as not to be detected. That raises the question then, how do you know it was her?

Perhaps the attacker ordered her to step up on the toilet and to keep her mouth shut. Perhaps the rape had not occured yet.

Men in pursuit of sex know that getting the woman to a place of privacy is the first step. Many man with experience can recall times when they were alone with a woman, expected sex, thought she wanted sex too, and then were turned down. Some would persist in trying to talk their way 'in', while others may end up using force.

I don't know if this kid is guilty or not, but questioning the victim, or even accusing the victim is quite common. We don't do this with murder victims, robbery victims, or assault victims. Why do we do it with rape victims?

[zach5]

Brett911 please dont just cut and past, rather a link or something, so we do not have to scroll through the whole article. Thanks

[Ahnold]

steve:

unfortunately the answer to your last question is probably this vague issue of consent. Murder and robbery victims clearly do not have to be subjected to the notion that they may have willingly participated. Rape is such an abhorrent crime, such a personal violation, sometimes you wonder if people simply are unwilling to believe that one human could force themselves onto another like that and would rather believe that it had to be consensual. Why else would society choose to further humiliate the victims?

no one wins in this situation. I hope, regardless of the outcome, that the students out there learn something from this.

[OctoberLily]

I had a class at FHS last Spring and not all the bathrooms are "connected" to classrooms. Some in the C Building area are separate from the main building. Either way, the bathrooms are well lit and any sound is enhanced by the walls. Therefore, if the girl did scream, everyone near the bathroom would have heard her.

The classrooms are also not sound proof. In fact, our professor had to ask another professor to tone down the noise coming from his class. His voice just carried well.

My understanding about this whole tragic situation is that the kids alleged acuser and victim were friends. Maybe Folsom Dad might be able to clarify that fact.

Either way, all of the kids involved are certainly learning an enormous lesson in life. It's very sad.

[tessieca]

There's so much conjecture and rumor in this thread. I can only hope and pray that the process will ferret out the truth and provide justice.

[Chad Vander Veen]

Verdict is in: guilty.
http://www.sacbee.co...-10675890c.html

[slowthegrowth]

Guilty on 11 counts of rape and sexual assault.... man, oh man.

I suppose that it's better for the boy that this he wasn't tried as an adult. Looks like he'll get out when he's 25. He would have been in a LOT longer otherwise....

Also appears that this wasn't an open/shut case. Differing stories on both sides....perhaps the only ones who really know what happened are the kids involved.

This has got to be terrible for everyone involved....

[bordercolliefan]

What was the evidence as to whether the 4 girls (or some subset of them) were friends?

[forumreader]

Infuriating and heartbreaking news. They are still kids, which makes it all the more tragic.

[Cantknowme]

My gut feel is that this verdict is wrong. So many shattered lives . . .

[Steve Heard]

My gut feeling is that the verdict was correct.

I am told that a couple of the girls who came forward do know each other, but are not friends. The girl who was raped was new to the school.