66 replies to this topic

[Steve Heard]

How had I flaunted my sexuality? I bring up topics that are (what I consider to be) important. They are related to mainly the LGBTQ community. And thru those discussions, I have come out. I don't PM every single person and say "hey, I'm Gay! Isn't that fabulous?"

As for people not caring if I'm gay or not, they will still be saying things (positive and negative) about me via their comments about the LGBTQ community, so at least with me being out, they know that they are directly saying it to someone that is connected to their life one way or another...even if it is thru an internet forum.

As for people getting some sense of community, there is a gay community in Folsom, and in Sacramento. The gay community in Folsom is more closeted because of the attitude of the majority of the citizens. Regardless if they don't want to say bad things about the gay community or a gay person, they do. And I do have inner pride of who I am. I am a male, I have an Asian and European ancestry, and I am gay. I also show that pride visually and publicly. If you have a problem with that, then you get over it.

Do not put me into a box to make you more comfortable. I was in a box and repeatedly shoved back into that box by my peers, teachers, and strangers each time someone would make a homophobic comment. I tried to lead a "straight" life so I wouldn't have to deal with crap from my peers, teachers, and strangers. So that I could live my life w/o fear of being harassed, beaten, or killed. But I reached my breaking point, and I came out, and I will not go back in just because it makes other people more comfortable. I am who I am. Love it or hate it, I won't change.

Anyone can be proud of themselves in the privacy of their own home, but it takes courage to flaunt it in public; regardless if it's your race, religion, gender, socio-economic status, body type, medical condition, it takes courage to stand up to the world and say you are different and proud of your individuality.

I have worked hard on becoming who I am, and I am still working on who I am going to become. In the meantime, I have learned to roll with the punches, to wipe off the spit, to turn around and not engage when I am being yelled at, to duck when a rock is being thrown, and to get out of the way when a sign is being swung at me. And I go through that because of ignorant people, hateful people, and because I am not shy about who I am.

I understand where you're coming from, but you have to realize that if you are member of an underrepresnted group in the community; sexual preference, race, religion, etc., making frequent posts relating primarily to issues surrounding your particular group, readers may tire of hearing or reading about it, ignore it, or even start to post negative remarks, and it may make you seem like your subject matter is all you are about.

You are a complete human being. You are a young, male, American, a Folsomite, an athlete, a person of mixed race, a student, and I am sure, many other things.

From your posts, one would think you define yourself only as gay, and care about only gay issues. I haven't counted them, but other than a few restaurant threads, I can't think of many posts you've made that haven't involved gay issues. It makes it seem like your agenda is to keep gay issues in front of a community in which gays are underrepresented, and in which they are not generally persecuted.

I know of injustices against the gay community. I grew up in San Francisco, I have a gay brother, gay friends, and like everyone, gay relatives. I am not saying you have to remain silent, or that you can't speak out about injustices, but imagine if 'gay' in your posts with straight, or white, or jewish, or muslim, or black, or transvestite.

You'd get reactions such as, "again with the pro-muslim posts?", or "we get it, you're white", or "without reading it, I'd bet your post is about being straight", or, "we don't care about your blackness, and wouldn't even know about it if you didn't bring it up at every turn"

There are other gays on the forum who are as opinionated as the rest of us, with their own views on traffic, politics, restaurants, dogs, etc. Some of us know these folks are gay, others haven't a clue.

I'm not saying you can't discuss gay issues, just offering a little perspective.

[D's TK]

I understand where you're coming from, but you have to realize that if you are member of an underrepresnted group in the community; sexual preference, race, religion, etc., making frequent posts relating primarily to issues surrounding your particular group, readers may tire of hearing or reading about it, ignore it, or even start to post negative remarks, and it may make you seem like your subject matter is all you are about.

You are a complete human being. You are a young, male, American, a Folsomite, an athlete, a person of mixed race, a student, and I am sure, many other things.

From your posts, one would think you define yourself only as gay, and care about only gay issues. I haven't counted them, but other than a few restaurant threads, I can't think of many posts you've made that haven't involved gay issues. It makes it seem like your agenda is to keep gay issues in front of a community in which gays are underrepresented, and in which they are not generally persecuted.

I know of injustices against the gay community. I grew up in San Francisco, I have a gay brother, gay friends, and like everyone, gay relatives. I am not saying you have to remain silent, or that you can't speak out about injustices, but imagine if 'gay' in your posts with straight, or white, or jewish, or muslim, or black, or transvestite.

You'd get reactions such as, "again with the pro-muslim posts?", or "we get it, you're white", or "without reading it, I'd bet your post is about being straight", or, "we don't care about your blackness, and wouldn't even know about it if you didn't bring it up at every turn"

There are other gays on the forum who are as opinionated as the rest of us, with their own views on traffic, politics, restaurants, dogs, etc. Some of us know these folks are gay, others haven't a clue.

I'm not saying you can't discuss gay issues, just offering a little perspective.

Steve has made an excellent post here, Swmr, and one that we should all take to heart. No one wants to feel oppressed, and we can all relate to that. I know that I personally would like my posts to be considered on their own merit....not because of what race or sexual orientation I am, but just because I am "me." I certainly don't want you to go "back in" as you put it....as Steve pointed out...you are a complete package! We all are We all need to be true to ourselves and be WHO we are. We all come from diverse backgrounds with interesting viewpoints...one of the things I love about the forum! But I agree with Steve...anyone who pushes a specific agenda on the forum, too much and for too long, seems to end up being a target for snarky comments!! Honestly, I have NO idea (unless someone discloses the info) the race, sexual orientation, gender or much of anything about anyone else on the forum....because I don't think of it in terms like that. I just think of it like here we all are.....a bunch of PEOPLE Think about it for a moment....do you have any idea what race I am? I guess one could sit around all day trying to guess, but that's all it would be...a guess. Because unless I disclose it, no one would ever know for sure. From many of my posts, one could come to the conclusion that I am a married female w/kids...but what about my race? It's not something I would normally disclose because why does it matter? That's the same way I feel about one's sexual orientation...it doesn't matter Your opinions are just as valued (or rejected!) anyway....just like the rest of us I just wanted to add a little to what Steve wrote. And to let you know that I do enjoy your posts and consider you to be quite the articulate and intelligent young man (and I only know you are a young man because you have disclosed it in previous posts! )

[supermom]

Std--interesting post but i think this quote:" It makes it seem like your agenda is to keep gay issues in front of a community in which gays are underrepresented, and in which they are not generally persecuted. ", is a little off. I think there is a strong sense of anti-gay movement in the Jr/Highschool in Folsom. It may not be evident in the form outright physical harrassment, but it does seems to be happening frequently. At least from some of the things Swmr has posted before.

I don't think Swmr posts are any different than shiny posting only about movies.
It's what is that persons passion that they choose to bring to the community. People do have the choice to not read a thread if they are not interested. By the fact that they read and post shows they are interested-even if it differs from someone elses perspective. As for snarky comments- I'm the first to say yeah I do it on occasion-but it doesn't mean someone should choose to follow threads I've commented on and harrass me for it. 3 people now have done so. they claim they don't likemy posts-well ok. Their harrassment just makes them look weak. Weak morals-weak values-weak person. Pathetic really.

[mylo]

From what I can tell from my limited experience with Folsom Highschoolers, there is a strong sense of anti-everything movement. These kids are out to hate anything that annoys them, and gay rights is just another bubble on their ADD-afflicted channel.

[D's TK]

People do have the choice to not read a thread if they are not interested. By the fact that they read and post shows they are interested-even if it differs from someone elses perspective. As for snarky comments- I'm the first to say yeah I do it on occasion-but it doesn't mean someone should choose to follow threads I've commented on and harrass me for it. 3 people now have done so. they claim they don't likemy posts-well ok.

This is a good point, supermom!! I, too, felt extremely harrassed on a certain thread after a few select people took it upon themselves to form a small gang unit and break out the batons!!! I agree...if you don't like someone's posts, fine...move on; no one is forcing anyone to read anyone else's stuff. Several folks around the forum seem to think it is okay to blame others for their own feelings. We all really need to take responsibility for how we let others affect us. Supermom admits that she can be snarky on occasion....on the other thread where we were under "assault," I admitted also to agreeing with most of what was being discussed and also that I can get a bit snarky myself at times....AND YET...the "gang" kept up and not one of them have owned up to the way they may have acted...all the while trying to run over those of us who did I have now been accused of being rude, narrow-minded, thinking child safety is a "joke,"etc., which are all things that I have never considered myself to be nor have I been accused of by anyone else. I chose to leave that thread behind and continue on with my normal musings...but all of you who did the gang-up thing (and you know who you are) were just in very bad form, IMHO.

On a somewhat different (but related) subject...has anyone noticed how some of the forum "newbie's" are just jumping right in with both feet with their angry comments and/or name calling??? Shouldn't there be some sort of "waiting period" or something before one can start calling other people a**'s and such? Like, maybe you have to have a certain number of posts under your belt before you can start in with the angry talk...I would vote to implement something of that nature!!! Why, back when I joined the forum ( )...you didn't just come crashing in calling everyone names! You stood back, got to know the forum, made a few posts to see how anyone would respond, and hoping to fit in....and THEN, yeah, let a few people have an earful when they needed it!! Those were the good 'ol days... Of course, an alternative to all the name calling and such would be to STOP and try to just be respectful of everyone else while stating your own opinions....but, what do I know? Apparently, I am so rude and disrespectful that it took several of you to try and take me down...geez, this is just a place to discuss issues...NOT "Wild Kingdom!!!"

Okay, just had to vent that....and on my merry way I go

[bordercolliefan]

I think I understand where swmr is coming from. When you perceive an injustice that is hurtful to people, it is hard to just push that aside in your mind. Especially if you are kind of an idealist. I have struggled with that myself.

Instead of rolling our eyes at "another" gay post from swmr, we should try to understand how/why this issue is so deeply important and hurtful to him. Maybe some of us are trying to ignore something that we need to confront.

It is like the pictures of children starving in Africa; sometimes we tend to avert our eyes from the injustice or cruelty in our midst.

[Steve Heard]

Std--interesting post but i think this quote:" It makes it seem like your agenda is to keep gay issues in front of a community in which gays are underrepresented, and in which they are not generally persecuted. ", is a little off. I think there is a strong sense of anti-gay movement in the Jr/Highschool in Folsom. It may not be evident in the form outright physical harrassment, but it does seems to be happening frequently. At least from some of the things Swmr has posted before.

I don't think Swmr posts are any different than shiny posting only about movies.
It's what is that persons passion that they choose to bring to the community. People do have the choice to not read a thread if they are not interested. By the fact that they read and post shows they are interested-even if it differs from someone elses perspective. As for snarky comments- I'm the first to say yeah I do it on occasion-but it doesn't mean someone should choose to follow threads I've commented on and harrass me for it. 3 people now have done so. they claim they don't likemy posts-well ok. Their harrassment just makes them look weak. Weak morals-weak values-weak person. Pathetic really.

I know that there is, has always been, and always will be, punk-arse kids who want to harrass anyone who doesn't fit their group, and I know that swmr was sometimes the target of these bullies. The community as a whole, however, does not seem to be, IMO, anti-gay.

Yes, we are free to post and read anything we want to here, but my comments were in response to swmr's question 'how had I flaunted my sexuality?', and in the same post makes the statement, 'it takes courage to flaunt it in public'. He has questioned why being gay is so offensive to people.

My suggestion is that most people don't care if one is gay or straight, and again, we wouldn't know if he was gay or straight if many if not most of his posts weren't about gay issue, about him being gay, about his boyfriend, etc.

If swmr is gay, I wish him happiness in his gayness, and will not oppose his right to be gay, his right to marry, work, and live in comfort and the quiet enjoyment of his home.

I'm just trying to explain to him that some of the reaction to him may not be hatred, but fatigue.

[Steve Heard]

I think I understand where swmr is coming from. When you perceive an injustice that is hurtful to people, it is hard to just push that aside in your mind. Especially if you are kind of an idealist. I have struggled with that myself.

Instead of rolling our eyes at "another" gay post from swmr, we should try to understand how/why this issue is so deeply important and hurtful to him. Maybe some of us are trying to ignore something that we need to confront.

It is like the pictures of children starving in Africa; sometimes we tend to avert our eyes from the injustice or cruelty in our midst.

I understand that completely, but if I were to take on the cause of my blackness and racism, and I was constantly posting items about it, the message may lose its impact.

Posting that I was discriminated against in housing or employment is a legitimate issue, but if I keep on posting every time a black person faces real or perceived discrimination, I am sure people will get tired of it. 'We get it. You're black and the white man keeps you down', might be the kind of response.

So swmr, please do keep up your cause, but realize the answer to your questions.

[bordercolliefan]

The community as a whole, however, does not seem to be, IMO, anti-gay.

I love that you think this, but I'm starting to wonder if it may be overly optimistic.

Someone I know told me that his church promulgates a frequent and strident anti-gay message. This is a church to which a lot of people here in Folsom belong.

Just the other day at the office, an educated person my age tried to berate me into acknowledging that gay sex is disgusting. (That's a paraphrase).

I guess it depends what circles you travel in. Maybe I could borrow some of your friends and get a different perspective.

[Steve Heard]

I love that you think this, but I'm starting to wonder if it may be overly optimistic.

Someone I know told me that his church promulgates a frequent and strident anti-gay message. This is a church to which a lot of people here in Folsom belong.

Just the other day at the office, an educated person my age tried to berate me into acknowledging that gay sex is disgusting. (That's a paraphrase).

I guess it depends what circles you travel in. Maybe I could borrow some of your friends and get a different perspective.

Out of all of my comments, that's probably the one I'm least sure about. A better way to put it might be, "There have been no assaults on gays reported, as far as I know, and no anti-gay rallies or marches, and people her are generally friendly. "

Whether this is a lot of anti-gay sentiment would be uncovered if we had a Folsom 'Pride' parade.

[swmr545]

From your posts, one would think you define yourself only as gay, and care about only gay issues. I haven't counted them, but other than a few restaurant threads, I can't think of many posts you've made that haven't involved gay issues. It makes it seem like your agenda is to keep gay issues in front of a community in which gays are underrepresented, and in which they are not generally persecuted.

I post about other things...however the ones that get the most attention are the "gay topics". Like you said, I have started restaurant topics, as well as stuff in the gamers section, a few in the open topics about misc. stuff, and other political issues.

In the most recent "gay post" I put two topics into one thread, and the only one talked about is the issue of marriage equality, not about people protesting funerals of our fallen soldiers. I have posted another topic before about burning the flag, not much talk around that.

When it comes to what I post, people tend to read more and have more to say about the "gay" things.

[swmr545]

Fabulous

Such a fun word.

[swmr545]

----Well said Swmr. An interesting note. As strong as my personal beliefs are--I still hold to a stronger value that states all people should be allowed their own beliefs. Your choice to let others see your beliefs or your lifestyle-no one else's. Now those who do not feel comfortable seeing your lifestyle also should have a say- it is after all a free country. The truth though is that sometimes when you see something you don't like- you have to turn your head. Like a kid wearing a mohawk and sporting pink hair. Other times when you see something you don't like you just can't be quiet. No matter how PC the issue. I think I understand Msgt view as well as yours--but I won't tell you your views shouldn't be on this forum. Truthfully I shudder at the thought that one of my kids will end up "that way". I know what a hard road that would be for them. It would also force me to re-analyze some of my own beliefs and values. As a mother I don't think I could ever reject a child because of their sexual orientation. Perhaps many others feel the same way- and this is why there are always such strong reactions to the Gay Community when they are flagrantly out in public. I would be more comfortable with just a parade of normal people chanting for gay rights than to see people dressed in clothing that appears sexually charged.

I hope that people don't see me as someone who doesn't allow people to have their own input on issues pertaining to my life. However, I do realize that I have been (and will remain) defensive when people speak negative about who I am.

I am all for free speech, and I agree that those who disagree with me being gay, Chinese, athiest, athletic (although not so much lately), Japanese, Irish, British, young, odd, honest, and proud (including a whole bunch of other things) have a right to speak out against any one of those things. However, I will not stand by and defend someone who decides to spit on me, hit me, follow me home to harass me, push me, throw rocks/bottles at me, or call me a child molestor/pedophile.

So while my post may have come across a bit on the strong side, I was only responding to someone who disagrees with me and had already stated their beliefs.

As for not wanting your child(ren) to become gay, lesbian, bi, or trans, I hope no parent ever tells that to their child. You never know if they are or aren't, and what you say does affect us whether we show it or not.

In my family, it was never talked about in a positive light, and when I came out, I was afraid of being disowned (also from stories I have heard from friends about what happened to them). I was afraid that I wouldn't be loved anymore by my immediate and extended family, and it hurt me up until I came out to my family to know that in their eyes, I wasn't accepted.

That isn't the case anymore, and my family is as close as ever, but even though parents say they love us regardless, when we hear our family say "oh I wish you never turn out to be gay" or "gay people shouldn't do that" or people remaining silent when an anti-gay comment/joke is being made and you disagree, it hurts us.

And when we have family members that say and do those types of things, it just pushes us away. However, I do understand the fears that come with having a LGB or T child, and I know my parents still have those fears about what my life will be like with the current attitudes of our society. But remember, actions speak louder than words, and you may say you love your child(ren), but when we see you (parents) remain silent when bad things are said/done, we remember.

I'm not a parent, so I don't know the best way of raising children is, but I do know that as an elder teen/young adult (20 in 12 days) I enjoy hearing my mom and dad say "I love you" from time to time...and I also like to hear "we're proud of what you have done with your life".

[MikeinFolsom]

The quote of the day comes from Stevethedad...."I wish him happiness in his gayness"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

[tgianco]

I hope that people don't see me as someone who doesn't allow people to have their own input on issues pertaining to my life.

Actually, why should you want or allow anyone to have input on issues relating to your life, unless you ask, of course.

You're your own man, gay or straight. Good for you that you're proud of who you are, regardless of what ANY one on this forum thinks or a church(es) in town may say.

I agree with Steve's point, though, that there might be some fatigue. I have to admit that I don't read many of these threads since they often feel like "been there, done that."