122 replies to this topic

[mylo]

I wouldn't ride a IIci at 70mph!

No, but you could ride it from 25MHz 68030's all the way up to 100MHz PowerPC's!

[Ronda]

Late to this party, I know.

I've tried to use Windows, both when Windows 98 came on the scene and again when Windows XP made its debut. Both times, I ended up thinking, "Why am I beating my head against this wall?" And back to my Mac I went.

If you haven't used Mac OS X (of which Leopard is the latest iteration, Mac OS X 10.5), then you really haven't used a Mac as they exist now. Mac OS X is totally different from anything that came before.

Switching? (Or thinking about it?) Get help straight from the horse's mouth at Switch 101 on Apple's site:

http://www.apple.com...port/switch101/

Come on in — the water's fine!

[mylo]

Paddle Faster. I hear Apple folk!

[bishmasterb]

Paddle Faster. I hear Apple folk!

Just drink the OSX Koolaid, step into the reality distortion field, and everything will be fine!

[dansflb]

Just drink the OSX Koolaid, step into the reality distortion field, and everything will be fine!

I definitely don't work for apple and I sell it more than they do, because it's so much better than using a PC. I've got 6 people to switch and buy a new iMac and everyone of them are 100% satisfied and we talk every time we run into each other about how we wish we would have switched sooner.

If someone reads this forum and switches to buy a Mac please let us know what you think, I would bet that everything that has been said will about Macs will be reiterated.

[Bill Z]

PC is my choice.

I used a Mac first. But at work I have a company PC. I like to have the same Operating system & Software at home as I do at work. At work, a PC is mandatory as the circuit simulation software we use is only supported on PC's and Unix workstations. No Mac's at work equals no Mac's at home for me.

[dansflb]

PC is my choice.

I used a Mac first. But at work I have a company PC. I like to have the same Operating system & Software at home as I do at work. At work, a PC is mandatory as the circuit simulation software we use is only supported on PC's and Unix workstations. No Mac's at work equals no Mac's at home for me.

Good point Bill having a compatible computer at home is important, I have a mac at work and a mac at home.

Here's your answer though, if you buy a Mac you can actually run Vista or XP faster on a Mac than you can on a PC! Mac's come with the ability to run windows as a complete operating system, so if there are certain programs that you need to have for work and home just install your preference of windows on your mac, use either boot camp which comes with your mac or parallels and you have the best of both worlds! I think what you will find is that you will use your mac for everything else and you will use your windows side of the mac to run your work programs at home. P.S. In case anyone was wondering, you can't run a mac on a PC but you can run a Windows operating system on a mac. How cool is that!

[Bill Z]

Good point Bill having a compatible computer at home is important, I have a mac at work and a mac at home.

Here's your answer though, if you buy a Mac you can actually run Vista or XP faster on a Mac than you can on a PC! Mac's come with the ability to run windows as a complete operating system, so if there are certain programs that you need to have for work and home just install your preference of windows on your mac, use either boot camp which comes with your mac or parallels and you have the best of both worlds! I think what you will find is that you will use your mac for everything else and you will use your windows side of the mac to run your work programs at home. P.S. In case anyone was wondering, you can't run a mac on a PC but you can run a Windows operating system on a mac. How cool is that!

Who wants to run Vista? Everyone I know that has Vista hates it and are trying to get back to XP.

I wouldn't want to try running Windows on a Mac and all of my other software. Granted, most tech support is pretty lousy anyway, but you won't get any support if you aren't running on the recommended platform. And actually the tech support for the simulation software I run is pretty good, but it ought to be as the company pays dearly for it on an annual basis.

[Ronda]

you won't get any support if you aren't running on the recommended platform.

This is not true with Windows on Mac. You do get tech support. Apple has come out with its own application for Windows on Mac which is NOT emulation. It's called Boot Camp and allows you to set up a Windows boot partition which runs Windows natively. Since Apple went to Intel processors, there is nothing keeping you from running Windows (XP or Vista, your choice) on a Mac.

With Boot Camp, you boot into one OS or the other. Boot Camp is included with Leopard.

With a couple of third-party solutions (Parallels comes to mind), you can run the two OSes side-by-side without rebooting. All it takes is a click to switch from one to the other.

At least one large company has bought a sizeable order of Macs to run Windows exclusively. You bet there is tech support. Apple doesn't care what software you run on its hardware, just like Microsoft doesn't care what hardware you use to run its software.

[LittleMike]

I only lasted about 8 months at HP before I had to leave, I simply couldn't honestly sell PC's to people that I new in my heart should be buying a Mac.

That's golden. You know what someone else should be buying? I love it. I wish I was that elite.

Let me use the example of a vehicle made in two separate factories:

Factory A designs the car from the ground up and specifically build their cars with specific components, some they make themselves and some they have other companies make to their specifications, everything is perfectly matched and quality tested to be 100% compatible with all the other parts in the deign. There are no bottle necks.

Factory B is an assembly plant, they build cars but instead of designing them from the ground up they go out with their shopping cart and pick up a bunch of parts and mix and match them till they end up with a car that works... well kind of. It might have a 300HP motor in it but unfortunately it only has a fuel injection system from a 150HP motor rendering the motor to half of its intended output. The other problem is the electronic ignition system is brand new but the rest of the parts are from last year so most of the features the customer is paying for in the new expensive electronic ignition system are useless. Of course there are other fit and finish problems because in the end it is a really just a Franken-car.

Factory B does not just throw stuff in a box and hope it runs. If you go to Dell or HP they put quality materials in their boxes. Sure, it's not always top of the line but it ain't the mismatched pile of trash you lead other sheep to believe.

Facts about Macs:
1 Macs crash less then PCs (they do crash but very rarely)
2 Macs require very little to no maintenance, you can run a Mac for years and years without reformatting, defraying, reorganizing. Macs use Unix based maintenance scripts that do all this for you.
3 Macs are easier to use.
4 You can get more done on a Mac, spend less time fighting your machine and more time using it.
5 Macs do cost more but give you more back in return and hold significantly more resale value meaning you can sell it and use that money to by your next Mac for about the same price as a PC that is half as good.
6 Macs are very Virus resilient. (I have never run Virus or Spyware software on any of my Macs and have never had a Virus or Spyware incident).
7 Mac people are the most customer loyal bar non, why is this? PC people will buy what ever brand of PC they can get the best deal on.
8 Macs just look cool, any PC that looks even near as good as Mac will set you back just as much if not more then a Mac, it's not just about what is inside.

1. A properly built PC will crash no more or less than a Mac.
2. A properly built PC requires very little to no maintenance...
3. Anyone who thinks a PC is difficult to operate is too effing stupid to own computer.
4. Absolutely not... (see addendum 1)
5. Yeah, they probably hold their value more. Doesn't mean you get more back from them. That has more to do with the loyal sheep buyers than quality. A $15k Harley-Davidson is still a PoS compared to an import bike. Price does not equal quality.
6. A properly built PC is very virus resilient. It might cost you an extra $50 but if you bought a PC you've already saved that much 10x over.
7. Mac people are sheep. They are only concerned with being hip and cool (see addendum 2).
8. Anyone who buys a computer because "it looks cool" is a retard.

Addendum 1: One of the reasons I will never buy a Mac is because you can't get more done on one. I use a PC all day at work and at home. At my night job I use a Macbook Pro. "Boy, it sure does look purty!" Yeah, it's fast. But you know what's missing? KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS! In just about EVERY program written for a PC you can fly through menus and dialog boxes by hitting the ALT key and another key. You can't do it on a Mac. Mac people LOVE their mouse and can't take their hands off it. They are slower, in many respects.

Addendum 2: Why do you think Apple is so successful? Because they cater to the uber-cool. The iPhone is certainly a great little gadget. But, I like to get things done quickly (see addendum 1). I can answer my phone (Treo 700w) and do quite a few things with it while not even looking at it. Why, because it has buttons... buttons that I can feel. I don't need to look at it. For the same reason they are successful with computers. Most people are impressed by the interface. "Boy, it sure does look purty!" It's still a computer inside and those guts rarely do anything significantly quicker or better than a similarly built PC.

That's why I won't buy a Mac.

History: First computer: TRS80. Been working on PCs ever since. Had the displeasure of having to work on a Mac, never being able to let go of the effing mouse, at several different places of employment, including my current "night job" and they are no more easier or difficult to use than any modern PC. And I can get more done faster on the PC.

[Bill Z]

Since Apple went to Intel processors, there is nothing keeping you from running Windows (XP or Vista, your choice) on a Mac.

Well, then, it's not much of Mac anymore if they dropped the Motorola processor for an "Intel Inside" and you run Windows on it.

Sounds like a PC wrapped inside a Mac box so it costs more. And no, Agilent won't provide support for their software even if I can run their software on a Mac that has more in common with a PC than Apple wants to advertise. It's not an approved platform, they won't support it.

[mylo]

Well, then, it's not much of Mac anymore if they dropped the Motorola processor for an "Intel Inside" and you run Windows on it.

Sounds like a PC wrapped inside a Mac box so it costs more. And no, Agilent won't provide support for their software even if I can run their software on a Mac that has more in common with a PC than Apple wants to advertise. It's not an approved platform, they won't support it.

One could say it's not a Macintosh, it's a Mac

I, for one, welcome our Intel powered overlords. Apple made a wise choice going with the Core 2 Duo's. And it shows, as some of the fastest Windows machines are Mac's.

What sort of "support" are you looking for? Microsoft won't help the average user too much no matter what their hardware or virtualization is.

[Carl G]

Who wants to run Vista? Everyone I know that has Vista hates it and are trying to get back to XP.

I run Vista on two machines and I like it.

[Carl G]

OK - Not to through fuel on the fire, but it appears the Mac has many more flaws than Windows.

Also, I'm guessing you will see more and more trojans, malware, etc for the Mac.

[dansflb]

That's golden. You know what someone else should be buying? I love it. I wish I was that elite.
Factory B does not just throw stuff in a box and hope it runs. If you go to Dell or HP they put quality materials in their boxes. Sure, it's not always top of the line but it ain't the mismatched pile of trash you lead other sheep to believe.
1. A properly built PC will crash no more or less than a Mac.
2. A properly built PC requires very little to no maintenance...
3. Anyone who thinks a PC is difficult to operate is too effing stupid to own computer.
4. Absolutely not... (see addendum 1)
5. Yeah, they probably hold their value more. Doesn't mean you get more back from them. That has more to do with the loyal sheep buyers than quality. A $15k Harley-Davidson is still a PoS compared to an import bike. Price does not equal quality.
6. A properly built PC is very virus resilient. It might cost you an extra $50 but if you bought a PC you've already saved that much 10x over.
7. Mac people are sheep. They are only concerned with being hip and cool (see addendum 2).
8. Anyone who buys a computer because "it looks cool" is a retard.

Addendum 1: One of the reasons I will never buy a Mac is because you can't get more done on one. I use a PC all day at work and at home. At my night job I use a Macbook Pro. "Boy, it sure does look purty!" Yeah, it's fast. But you know what's missing? KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS! In just about EVERY program written for a PC you can fly through menus and dialog boxes by hitting the ALT key and another key. You can't do it on a Mac. Mac people LOVE their mouse and can't take their hands off it. They are slower, in many respects.

Addendum 2: Why do you think Apple is so successful? Because they cater to the uber-cool. The iPhone is certainly a great little gadget. But, I like to get things done quickly (see addendum 1). I can answer my phone (Treo 700w) and do quite a few things with it while not even looking at it. Why, because it has buttons... buttons that I can feel. I don't need to look at it. For the same reason they are successful with computers. Most people are impressed by the interface. "Boy, it sure does look purty!" It's still a computer inside and those guts rarely do anything significantly quicker or better than a similarly built PC.

That's why I won't buy a Mac.

History: First computer: TRS80. Been working on PCs ever since. Had the displeasure of having to work on a Mac, never being able to let go of the effing mouse, at several different places of employment, including my current "night job" and they are no more easier or difficult to use than any modern PC. And I can get more done faster on the PC.

Wow I disagree with almost everything you said, I can't see how you really can make this argument. My only conclusion is that you somehow profit from PC's, which even if you did I don't think you would admit it.

It's not Dell or HP that this debate is over it's about Mac vs. PC. Another fun fact if you want to compare apples for apples go to Dell or HP's website and look at the breakdown and compare it to an iMac. In early discussions it was said that Macs cost more but in comparison they don't, they are actually cheaper in some cases. Now granted I won't argue with your home built computer but we are talking about what most people will go out and buy and what people trust. Check out the comparison on the bottom.

As for me I profit in no way from PC sales or Mac sales. I just have worked on PC's my whole life up until 10 months ago when I switched to a Mac and I absolutely think it's the best dam computer ever made hands down. It's not about being hip and cool it's about being able to get the job done and enjoy working on a computer. Yes it's amazing that on an iMac the entire computer fits in the monitor, I bet if you transported your computer like I do you would enjoy that cool feature to not to mention how much space is saved. Can it be done on a PC sure Dell did it, not nearly as nice as a Mac but they did it.

Shortcuts are you kidding me I use more shortcuts on my mac than I ever did on my PC, not to mention search features, it's so much easier to find a file on a mac, even if you deleted it.

The iPhone is the best damn phone ever made, you are just plain in denial. Not only that but it's the 1st version wait until they come out with more updates.

You may have a PC that doesn't crash often and runs fast but you are definitely in the minority when it comes to PC owners. When it comes to Mac owners they all love their macs because whether they are first time users or pros they always work and they don't get viruses, and we don't run anti virus software either. I'm glad a PC works for you though it didn't work for me and every other PC user I know. Keep what works for you and I will continue telling everyone else how a Mac can solve their PC problems, eemmmkay.

Dell.com
Processor/Display
20 inch widescreen display with Intel® Core™2 Duo E6550
Memory
2GB1 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
Video Card
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 Video Card
Hard Drive
320GB4 Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
8X Slot load CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW
Warranty & Service
2Yr In-Home Service,2 Parts Labor, 24x7 Phone Support
Starting Price $1,999


apple.com

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory (In Store upgrade to 2GB for $150)
320GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB memory
Ships: Within 24 hours
Free Shipping
$1,499.00

You add some memory a .Mac account so you can post a website have space to store on the net, have an email address that doesn't tick you off like aol or yahoo, and get one on one procare training and maybe even iWork and your still out the door cheaper than a comparable Dell or HP. Hell if you want you can upgrade to a 24" iMac and be out the door for less money!