105 replies to this topic

[mylo]

The main drawback to all that "super" education is these folks (mainly Indian from my experience) are very book smart but are really lacking in creativity and just plain problem solving. At Intel the group in India is very well educated but they are so by the book it really limits them to be efficient and solve problems in a timely manner. Mayber they need to build more Missions or take an Art class.

So, although the stats may look good as to the education level, just cramming tons of math and science into a person doesn't necessarily make them a better problem solver.

Do you think that's an educational issue, pushing booksmarts hard and fast, or simply a cultural difference?

[palango]

The main drawback to all that "super" education is these folks (mainly Indian from my experience) are very book smart but are really lacking in creativity and just plain problem solving. At Intel the group in India is very well educated but they are so by the book it really limits them to be efficient and solve problems in a timely manner. Mayber they need to build more Missions or take an Art class.

So, although the stats may look good as to the education level, just cramming tons of math and science into a person doesn't necessarily make them a better problem solver.

Some of the most brilliant doctors and world renowed researchers in the medical field are Indians. I do agree that maybe the schools out there lack in "art", but let me state that it is by DESIGN. Its Capitalism. If Art paid more, then they would all be artists.

Look at the latest enrollment figures @ medical schools here in the US. Indians, Orientals, and other nationalities. I know that would not be the case if Art and Literature were high in their educational system.

[cw68]

So true. Being able to apply all that book smart is something these people can't do. They can quote stuff and recite equations but can't use it in the real world. I never went to college and work as a mechanical engineer. We have guys at work with full blown degrees that can tell you all about the stuff but when it comes down to designing things they don't have the first clue. It's kind of funny when they come to me for help and then they find out I don't have a degree.

It takes all kinds. IMO, it's good to have people with different viewpoints, strengths and weaknesses.

[palango]

So true. Being able to apply all that book smart is something these people can't do. It's kind of funny when they come to me for help and then they find out I don't have a degree.

The reason why this country is going down the drain academically (k-12) is because of idiotic remarks like that. It is those lazy parents and folks that do not put a premium on college education. While I agree that "street smart", in some instances, are better fitted than book smarts, but I would love to be operated by Dr. Singh that has NO street smarts,English language skills or personality, but he was in the top 1% of New Delhi Medical School and Tufts University here in the US rather than Dr. Anderson that got his degree from the Caribbean, but he is "street smart" and has excellent personality because he took some art classes.

The bottom line is that we as a society have to "toughen" up. We have to STOP rewarding mediocrity and need to make everything a lot more competitive. The reason why India, Japan, Sweden , and others are waaaay ahead (K-12) is because there is some serious competition for grades, etc.

heck, even in Afghanistan (which is not even a 3rd world country because its soo poor) by 9th grade, you are taught Advanced Algebra and Trig.

[palango]

Two words for some of you, "HELICOPTER PARENTS!" Please don't tow the road and "do"most of your child's project...It takes away from your child's competency and creates a standard that is not achievable without buying all the crap at Michaels...How sick is that a corporation actually has a section at their store for 4th grade missions...Maybe we should just have all the stores get the curriculum and provide it for the schools....How bad is Ca. curriculum if every student has to make a mission..Cookie cutter education is the Mcdonaldization of our country...Go anywhere and get the same mono unchallenging educational atmosphere.......Ughh!
BTW, we live . close to INtel and you would think every child could have a laptop supplied by the company at a discount...It seems like only the poor districts get this kind of technology...I recently found out a dirty little secret about school districts...The lower performing schools actually get more funding per student and the students get more academic goodies that you would think communities such as Folsom would receive..In Rancho Cordova, some of the classes have tablets that you write on and it translates the work to a laptop....Nice if you know how to utilize the technology....It's seems like in Sacramento if you do worse on your test scores you get more money per student...WHat about the high achieving schools? Shouldn't they get rewarded for their achievements with some new laptops or some kind of kudos...Just a thought...

Thank you so much for your great great points. I agree with you mostly, but I would have to add, that the best education one receives would be from HOME because the schools here in CA are so broken to begin with. So may I submit an idea without overburdening the workload of the children??? With the explosion of the internet based FREE curriculum, why don't the parents give their children REAL World experience homework and teach them things that will interest them and challenge them? You can pretty much google anything and find FREE articles and assignments that will enhance and improve what they are learning at school. You can pull stuff from BBC online (UK) and CBC (Canada) as well because their educational curriculum is superior for K-12. All this stuff is out there and its FREE. All it takes is a little EFFORT!!!!

[forumreader]

Palango:

Do you homeschool?

[chris v]

The reason why this country is going down the drain academically (k-12) is because of idiotic remarks like that. It is those lazy parents and folks that do not put a premium on college education. While I agree that "street smart", in some instances, are better fitted than book smarts, but I would love to be operated by Dr. Singh that has NO street smarts,English language skills or personality, but he was in the top 1% of New Delhi Medical School and Tufts University here in the US rather than Dr. Anderson that got his degree from the Caribbean, but he is "street smart" and has excellent personality because he took some art classes.

The bottom line is that we as a society have to "toughen" up. We have to STOP rewarding mediocrity and need to make everything a lot more competitive. The reason why India, Japan, Sweden , and others are waaaay ahead (K-12) is because there is some serious competition for grades, etc.

heck, even in Afghanistan (which is not even a 3rd world country because its soo poor) by 9th grade, you are taught Advanced Algebra and Trig.

Thats a pretty bold statement considering you know absolutely nothing about me. I'm not saying what I have done is for everyone. I am very good at what I do, it is in my blood. I have been very creative my whole life and can self teach myself. I don't have a degree but if you ask anyone who knows me they will tell you that I am at the top of my game for what I do.

Why the hell I feel the need to justify myself to you is beyond me. But judging those that have a natural ability for what they do based on not having a degree is exactly what is wrong with society. I'm guessing that in your eyes that since I don't have a stupid piece of paper saying I spent 4+ years of my life in school that I should be working fast food. Whatever... Do what you want... the gov't and many foreign countries are glad that I am doing the work I do. I am changing the world with what I do, even if you don't think I'm worth 2 $hits.

[bordercolliefan]

Chrisv, you are justifiably proud of your accomplishments and no one can take that away from you.

Cw is right: people are different, and different paths will be appropriate depending on their interests and aptitude.

In general, however, we know 2 things are true:

1. The better educated our society is, the better off we will all be technologically, culturally, and financially. It doesn't matter if this education comes through university or self-study; what does matter is that we all place a high value on continuous learning.

2. Nowadays, for the most part, young people will fare better financially if they have a college degree. I believe the current statistic is that new college grads make about double what high school grads make. So, whatever our own path may have been, most of us will probably encourage our kids to go to college (unless the kid is just so turned off by school that it would be a waste).

[Darthvader]

Do you think that's an educational issue, pushing booksmarts hard and fast, or simply a cultural difference?

I've seen both sides of it. For instance, Intel held classes called "Working with India" to help us understand our counterparts over there. OK no problem. Then they tell you one of the philosophical mantra's they live by is "time is free." Now, how motivated to check in that code update do you think they are if they are living the "time is free" lifestyle?!

It was also obvious that only a VERY small % of the population even has a chance at the better universities there but there are so many people they can still produce tons of highly educated folks. Out of that the cream of the crop makes it over here and you get an impression that most of the country is like that. If you ever go there you will see the reality.

They can simply get things done my sheer numbers now (think 4 to 1 engineer salary-wise for the company) and even THEN they still miss most deadlines. I think lack of results is what's causing India to lose jobs to China, Russia, and even Poland.

So, while I've lost track of any point I was trying to make you can still educate a million people but that won't solve all your problems.

[palango]

Palango:

Do you homeschool?

I wish. I really wish, but finances do not permit that. Both parents have to work to make it. I have found out through the years that the smartest and most intellectual of my colleagues were homeschooled for some period of time OR their parents were super invloved.

[palango]

I'm guessing that in your eyes that since I don't have a stupid piece of paper saying I spent 4+ years of my life in school that I should be working fast food.

nope. I am happy that you are creative and do not need any kind of degree to make ends meet and make a good living, but what I take exception to is the fact that you sounded like a 4 year degree does not mean JACK just because YOU did not have it. Good for you if you make a decent enough $$ to take care of your fam, but SOCIETY as a whole needs to toughen up and STOP being lazy and make excuses about more homework or this is hard and that is hard. This is Why CA ( the 8th largest economy in the World) has one of the worst educational systems (k-12) in the world.

We reward Mediocrity as a society. This needs to stop.

[ducky]

nope. I am happy that you are creative and do not need any kind of degree to make ends meet and make a good living, but what I take exception to is the fact that you sounded like a 4 year degree does not mean JACK just because YOU did not have it. Good for you if you make a decent enough $$ to take care of your fam, but SOCIETY as a whole needs to toughen up and STOP being lazy and make excuses about more homework or this is hard and that is hard. This is Why CA ( the 8th largest economy in the World) has one of the worst educational systems (k-12) in the world.

We reward Mediocrity as a society. This needs to stop.

See, I don't think most of the parents here are saying things are too hard. It's more questioning the difference between busy work and actual learning taking place. I personally think requiring a mission report is more important than creating an architecturally accurate reproduction of an Alta California mission with realistic looking fountain water.

Now, if the parents help with the creation of such a mission and that forces them to more time with their children and they both enjoy being creative I can see where that could be a plus. (By the way, supermom, I am not knocking you. You obviously made your project a child-involved project. How about straw or clippings from a broom for the servant quarters roof?)
I don't however like the idea of buying a kit and putting it together. I find it wasteful and kind of missing the point.

Also, I wonder how many of the posters here commenting on the challenges of getting homework done are women and how many that are claiming there is lethargy and laziness are men? Just curious.

Chris V, don't let anyone make you feel less than you are because you don't have a degree. There are many people like you out there who are doing the actualy work while being supervised by a person with a piece of paper that doesn't have a clue.

[palango]

See, I don't think most of the parents here are saying things are too hard. It's more questioning the difference between busy work and actual learning taking place. I personally think requiring a mission report is more important than creating an architecturally accurate reproduction of an Alta California mission with realistic looking fountain water.

Now, if the parents help with the creation of such a mission and that forces them to more time with their children and they both enjoy being creative I can see where that could be a plus. (By the way, supermom, I am not knocking you. You obviously made your project a child-involved project. How about straw or clippings from a broom for the servant quarters roof?)
I don't however like the idea of buying a kit and putting it together. I find it wasteful and kind of missing the point.

Also, I wonder how many of the posters here commenting on the challenges of getting homework done are women and how many that are claiming there is lethargy and laziness are men? Just curious.

Chris V, don't let anyone make you feel less than you are because you don't have a degree. There are many people like you out there who are doing the actualy work while being supervised by a person with a piece of paper that doesn't have a clue.

You have some valid points there, but let me pose you some questions??? If you had the power, the funds $$, and no favors to special interest groups, how would you solve the embarassing school system of CA?? What would you do so radically different to make the young generation much more competitive in this ever increasing global market? how would you make the future generation of Californians Drs, Engineers, and make them more interested in Math and Science??? What type of OVERHAUL of this broken system would you implement rather than the lip service the politicians have promised for the past few decades and nothing to improve?

[chris v]

how would you make the future generation of Californians Drs, Engineers, and make them more interested in Math and Science???

If you are going into those fields and aren't already interested in those subjects than you have no business there.

[ducky]

You have some valid points there, but let me pose you some questions??? If you had the power, the funds $$, and no favors to special interest groups, how would you solve the embarassing school system of CA?? What would you do so radically different to make the young generation much more competitive in this ever increasing global market? how would you make the future generation of Californians Drs, Engineers, and make them more interested in Math and Science??? What type of OVERHAUL of this broken system would you implement rather than the lip service the politicians have promised for the past few decades and nothing to improve?

I don't think it takes funds $$$ or power. I think it takes parent time, dedication, and involvement with their own child and their child's school.

I don't have a clue how to fix this broken system other than to do the best I can to make sure my children get the most out of their education even if that means their father and I have to fill in the gaps.

I'm sorry I can't give you all the answers, palango, but then I guess I shouldn't feel too bad. A lot of supposedly highly intelligent people with fancy degrees can't seem to fix our education system either.