182 replies to this topic

[EDF]

I think better transparency in regards to the choices regarding where the budget reductions could be applied may have helped understand the choices the school board was making. I'm sure there were other areas that were being considered for cuts instead of libraries and class size reduction that could have used more in-depth discussions. Maybe some of those could have been funded or sponsored by private contributions. I've seen that happen for school athletic fields, music program, etc... in other school districts. While I realize the obstacles in trying to split the district into 2, we should be able to find ways for Folsom and Rancho corporations and individuals to invest and contribute to their local schools.

Why shouldn't we have our own schools... just because the educrats don't think it would be a good idea...?

These people.. "the educrats" are the ones that run the state's schools.. It's not like they are doing such a great job for all the stinking money that they get... ONE HALF THE STATE'S BUDGET... !!!!

So.... if you want to listen to every stinking reason why, such as, "it's just not feasable" for us to have our own school district from these stinking "self serving" education establishment types... go ahead....

I personally know they are full of SH*T...

And yea... I know I'm being a little strong... why...? Because I know I'm right...

You go ahead and listen to every little thing they tell you... get impressed by all power point presentations they put up... listen to them complain about all the mandates... yada yada yada....

Some of these parents on this forum just need to take their kids out of public schools... if they want a smaller class size... and if you want a leaner beauracracy.. then split the district... share some of the same resources with the city and quit letting the turf battles between the school district and city get in the way of saving some taxpayer $$$...

Oh yea... it just might be a little "inconvenient" for the educrats when "parents" get in the way...

Because the dirty little secret....? IS..... The Education Establishment is really afraid of Parents... because if the parents really got organized...? the educrats might just have some competition... and isn't competition good....?

Rant Over.... bring on some "A" game....

[stacycam]

Sorry, but that's not doing it for me. Yes, Folsom High is a great school, but based on what you just said, so is BV. Folsom is somewhat higher on test scores, but it does not blow BV out of the water. Great about the music. I'll give them that. I don't think anyone will argue that Folsom is not a great school. I never said it wasn't great.

I STILL don't see how our district is that much better, especially at the elementary school level.

[jen]

As for the CSR, I'm sorry to be dense, but that explanation still does not make sense to me. I'll accept that there are "CSR funds" that a school gets if they have 20 (though then one wonders why the school wouldn't keep the class size at 20 in order to keep those funds). So, then the school has a choice of going to, say, 25 kids or 32 kids. At our school, that amounts to one extra classroom. The school district could have elected to go to 25 (thereby keeping that one classroom) and made compensating cuts elsewhere to cover that teacher's salary. But they chose not to do that; they just let 3rd grade take the whole brunt.

I guess I'm supposed to be glad that while my 3rd grader may not be able to multiply and divide by the end of the year, at least my 4th grader will still be able to blast our ears out with the recorder.

That music question is interesting. I'd guess it's because there are maybe one or two roving music teachers so that wouoldn't offset the cost of CSR.

The state CSR money doesn't pay for CSR. If they get that $500 per kid from the state it costs about $800 (made up numbers by the way, but you can get the point).

So if they add back one teachyer per school like you suggest and it costs $45000-75000 for salary and benefits x however many schools there are AND they don't get the state mone3y to offset costs, then there is no budget reduction.

Looked it up and there's about 21 elementaries. If an average teacher costs $45000 that's $945,000 but they listed the reduction at $600,000 by changing to 32 kids per class. So they would be spending 50% more to have 25 students instead of cutting anything.

[EDF]

2 points:

1. The teachers are saying that other school districts used their reserve funds to preserve CSR. If that's true, then it is incorrect that those funds are "untouchable" for an exigency like this.

2. I agree that there is a lot of emotion around what has happened. I certainly feel it -- I almost cried last night as my child's teacher described the challenges of teaching 32 seven year-olds (I shouldn't call them all seven -- some are eight), and all the things she will not be able to do with them this year.

I think one reason there is so much emotion is because those of us who have seven year-olds feel that a line has been crossed to a point where it has become substantially less likely that our child can have a successful 3rd grade year. The "stars" of the class won't feel it; it's the average kid who sometimes struggles to master a concept "just in time." 3rd grade is a pivotal year in terms of mastering the math operations. If kids don't conquer these 100% in 3rd grade, they can't hope to be successful in 4th grade. Yesterday, I checked my daughter's math folder and saw that several of her problems had been marked wrong. I asked her if the teacher had gone over them with her. "No, she doesn't talk to each kid about their paper; she just gives the papers back." Sure enough, that evening, the teacher confirmed that she is struggling just to correct 32 papers; she can't circulate among the children to help them one-on-one. --How can I describe what it is like as a parent to be told by the teacher that she has little hope about what she'll be able to accomplish this year? She told us parents that she prides herself on her creative, interactive teaching methods... and that she has cried many tears realizing that she won't be able to do them with such a large class.

I also think we've crossed a line in terms of what is generally viewed as the acceptable "norm" for a 3rd grade class. When you have educators from other states telling you that they have never heard of a class of 32 at the 3rd grade level, you start to get the idea that your child is receiving a sub-standard education. My father's new wife, an education professor with decades of public school experience in Massachusetts, was flabbergasted by the class size and politely asked if we lived in an "economically disadvantaged town."

Oh Please..... please...

Did it ever occur to you to "correct" the problems yourself and maybe if you went over the math with your little darling... she might learn something from you....

go get some flash cards... do what ever it takes....

Public schools suck and if your little beastie is falling behind.. who's fault is that...? it ain't the teacher's... it's yours...!!!

and Massachusetts... god what a commie socialist state that is... I thought taxes were high here...

what are their "test scores" in relation to our standing in the rest of the world... are their scores overall so much higher than ours...?

go and get the comparable "demographics" from where he taught and compare with it with Folsom... then get back to us....

[Jolene]

Sorry, but that's not doing it for me. Yes, Folsom High is a great school, but based on what you just said, so is BV. Folsom is somewhat higher on test scores, but it does not blow BV out of the water. Great about the music. I'll give them that. I don't think anyone will argue that Folsom is not a great school. I never said it wasn't great.

I agree! And for my mind, the difference in test scores is made up by the fact that BV has ONE THOUSAND less students on its campus. This is good information to have. REALLY good information.

[abcdmom]

Is your son or daughter not doing well in our schools? San Juan made lots of cuts and has closed schools and doesn't have nearly the internationally reknowned music program our district does. Its API for the district was 767 compared to Folsom Cordova's of 805. Kids are graduating and going on to really good colleges and private universities. There are two national blue ribbon schools in Folsom and other California distinguished schools. They cut counselors and summer school enrichment classes. They cut janitors and vice principals. I don't think they've had busses for a long time. I can't find it but I thought they were near bankrupt because of contract agreements giving lifetime benefits (or maybe that was Elk Grove).

Anyway, do you love San Juan district more than Folsom? Some areas of Folsom have an automatic right to attend SJ schools. You could transfer. But you wohn't because you like FCUSD.

Jen - You know so much, you must be a school board member or a district employee in disguise on this board. You sure seem able to twist facts like they do.

San Juan closed schools because of a declining population. Folslm has a growing population. The music reputation was in place years ago, way before they made cuts. Most of the students in the GATE program or Honors classes in Folsom end up going to Mira Loma High School in San Juan. Because Folsom does not have classes high enough for them.

[EDF]

Jen - You know so much, you must be a school board member or a district employee in disguise on this board. You sure seem able to twist facts like they do.

San Juan closed schools because of a declining population. Folslm has a growing population. The music reputation was in place years ago, way before they made cuts. Most of the students in the GATE program or Honors classes in Folsom end up going to Mira Loma High School in San Juan. Because Folsom does not have classes high enough for them.

Huh...? I had a brat in the "honors" program and he's a "gate" kid.... he graduated in 2001... so when did this start that we here in Folsom don't have the classe high enough...?

[rightwingknot]

Huh...? I had a brat in the "honors" program and he's a "gate" kid.... he graduated in 2001... so when did this start that we here in Folsom don't have the classe high enough...?
....These people.. "the educrats" are the ones that run the state's schools.. It's not like they are doing such a great job for all the stinking money that they get... ONE HALF THE STATE'S BUDGET... !!!!
....Because the dirty little secret....? IS..... The Education Establishment is really afraid of Parents... because if the parents really got organized...? the educrats might just have some competition... and isn't competition good....?

EDF...I admit I am new to this 'board' thing, but your posts lead me to believe you are an intriguingly bitter figure (i.e. referring to your own child as a "brat"). You seem to bring nothing new to the table except complaints, innuendo, and sarcasm, which I guess, at its most basic level, is what boards are for. That notwithstadning, it would seem that you attempt to bring a braoder ideological argument to the table for this issue that is clearly a local one. That is specifically why local elections are supposed to be non-partisan.

The parents that you refer to that would "get in the way" are exactly the same ones who, for the last two years, fought very hard to keep worth while programs AND teachers in our schools. They picketed, attended school board meetings, met with principals and district administrators, etc. When you talk about choice, I agree choice is good. I believe that the parents, fully armed with accurate information are capable of making the right choices for the children in our district.

Stacycam still wants to know, though, "how our district is that much better, especially at the elementary school level." The answer is simple: because teachers and parents work hard to make it so, and the children respond. They use what little they are given, and produce small miracles, each and every day.

So, that's a small "a" game from me for today.

[bordercolliefan]

Stacycam still wants to know, though, "how our district is that much better, especially at the elementary school level." The answer is simple: because teachers and parents work hard to make it so, and the children respond. They use what little they are given, and produce small miracles, each and every day.

So, that's a small "a" game from me for today.

Nicely put. I think you are exactly right.

We have loved every single teacher we've had at Natoma Station. They are committed, creative, and skilled. Most of them have a ton of experience.

I also think Folsom parents are, on the whole, more involved than you will find in most locales. There are an unusually high number of stay-at-home moms in Folsom -- something you just won't find in a more working class community. These moms spend a lot of time in the schools. Many working parents also find time to be in the classroom. Most of us parents spend an hour or more each day with our child proctoring reading and homework.

Imagine what these teachers and parents could accomplish if they were actually given basics like enough paper to last the year and a reasonable size class.

[jen]

Jen - You know so much, you must be a school board member or a district employee in disguise on this board. You sure seem able to twist facts like they do.

San Juan closed schools because of a declining population. Folslm has a growing population. The music reputation was in place years ago, way before they made cuts. Most of the students in the GATE program or Honors classes in Folsom end up going to Mira Loma High School in San Juan. Because Folsom does not have classes high enough for them.

Google is an amazing thing. When one person used BV as a comparison, all I had to do is google both schools and came up with lots of interesting info. Then when it showed that FHS Is a good school she switched to a comparison of elementaries. Well, I don't have the google time today so I'll leave that to Stacycam.

But speaking of claiming to know things where do you get your info about "most of the studnets in GATE or Honors" end up going to Mira Loma? There couldn't possbily be nearly 3000 students at FHS if that was true. To Jolene: those stats were before the new high school opened i think.

[stacycam]

Google is an amazing thing. When one person used BV as a comparison, all I had to do is google both schools and came up with lots of interesting info. Then when it showed that FHS Is a good school she switched to a comparison of elementaries. Well, I don't have the google time today so I'll leave that to Stacycam.

WHAT are you talking about?! I think it's pretty obvious that I was referring to the elementary level all along, considering my daughter is in 3rd grade and I was concerned with AR (Accelerated Reading) and the elementary libraries. You stated that one of the reasons FCUSD is a good district is because kids graduate and go to good colleges. I brought up that BV is nearby and I'm guessing the kids get into good colleges there, too. I also think that BV is a good comparison to Folsom, on the high school level. I NEVER said Folsom HS was a bad school. I always said it was a great school. Your condescension is wasted on me.

I wanted to know what makes FCUSD a good DISTRICT. YOU did not answer that question sufficiently. Sadly, rightwingknot did. Their answer was what I knew - that there isn't much great about the district itself - it's the parents and the teachers. So instead of thanking our school board that chooses to sacrifice our elementary students' education, I will thank the fabulous parents and teachers we have.

[EDF]

EDF...I admit I am new to this 'board' thing, but your posts lead me to believe you are an intriguingly bitter figure (i.e. referring to your own child as a "brat"). You seem to bring nothing new to the table except complaints, innuendo, and sarcasm, which I guess, at its most basic level, is what boards are for. That notwithstadning, it would seem that you attempt to bring a braoder ideological argument to the table for this issue that is clearly a local one. That is specifically why local elections are supposed to be non-partisan.

The parents that you refer to that would "get in the way" are exactly the same ones who, for the last two years, fought very hard to keep worth while programs AND teachers in our schools. They picketed, attended school board meetings, met with principals and district administrators, etc. When you talk about choice, I agree choice is good. I believe that the parents, fully armed with accurate information are capable of making the right choices for the children in our district.

Stacycam still wants to know, though, "how our district is that much better, especially at the elementary school level." The answer is simple: because teachers and parents work hard to make it so, and the children respond. They use what little they are given, and produce small miracles, each and every day.

So, that's a small "a" game from me for today.

Hey.. If want to call my boys "stink wads" and "brats" it's a "term of endearment".. because it's said with a smile...

You have no idea of who I am or about me being "bitter"... I'm not bitter... because I wake up each day just happy to be alive.. and I go to bed the same way...

What I don't like to see on this issue of schools for the "little darlings" is a BUNCH OF WHINY PEOPLE....!!

They whine about the class sizes... they whine about all this crap when in fact they are respsonsible for the education of their kids.. not the schools.... so quit whining...

The reason these schools in Folsom do so well is because of, not in spite of, the "participation" of the parents in this community.

Hey if you want to fight for CSR for your little stink wad and you lose...? so what...? my little stinkers did just great... one's in construction and making a great living at it... and the other is a computer geek that graduated from CalPoly... so don't tell me that kids can't do well in classes larger than 20 brats... there's a lot to learn and they will... but if you want your kid in a public school... this is what you get... you might have to go the extra mile... and by the way... at your expense... because after all these are your little brats...

Oh... and I'm not just a talker.. I'm a doer.. I did get involved in my kids education especially in the elementary grades... I did all the things you parents do now... except go to the PTA meetings which in my opinion are nothing but a bunch of "teacher wannabe's"... so "politically correct"... although we did give some $$ when they did the fund raisers...

and I also volunterred my time to help in the classroom....

Rant Over... from a "seasoned" parent of two great young men... who will always be "beasties" to me....

by the way... neither one of them is a "whiner"...

[Barb J]

Bordercollie:

I'm not sure what school your child attends, but it is very disturbing to me to hear that the teacher said what she did on Back to School Night. I don't that that was appropriate, not would it be very confidence inspiring to hear. If that were my daughter's teacher I would be in the principal's office the next day asking to be moved. If she is so creative, why is it that she can't figure out how to adjust her curriculum like every other 3rd grade teacher in the district is doing to adjust for the extra kids? She is setting herself up for a difficult year. Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Yes, elimination of CSR sucks. It just does and if my daughter were in 3rd grade this year I would be majorly disappointed. Were I on the board I would not have voted to eliminate CSR. But it is what it is. What can we do now? Parents can volunteer in the classroom so the teacher can have more opportunities to give that one on one time to the students - help her grade those 32 papers so she has time to work with the kids.

My daughter was in a third grade class last year with 20 kids, 2 of which had special needs. You wouldn't believe the time that was taken away from the class because of it. So we worked with her ALOT at home. She is very bright and capable and was therefore lost in the shuffle because it was assumed that she could take care of herself and knew what was going on. Luckily, she did, but we worked alot on Math with her at home - that's the key whether there is 20 kids or 32 in my opinion.

Barb

[Revolutionist]

I did all the things you parents do now... except go to the PTA meetings which in my opinion are nothing but a bunch of "teacher wannabe's"... so "politically correct"... although we did give some $ when they did the fund raisers...

things have changed a bit. At least my PTA has

mwahaahaaa!

[bordercolliefan]

I'm not sure what school your child attends, but it is very disturbing to me to hear that the teacher said what she did on Back to School Night. I don't that that was appropriate, not would it be very confidence inspiring to hear. If that were my daughter's teacher I would be in the principal's office the next day asking to be moved. If she is so creative, why is it that she can't figure out how to adjust her curriculum like every other 3rd grade teacher in the district is doing to adjust for the extra kids? She is setting herself up for a difficult year. Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Yes, elimination of CSR sucks. It just does and if my daughter were in 3rd grade this year I would be majorly disappointed. Were I on the board I would not have voted to eliminate CSR. But it is what it is. What can we do now? Parents can volunteer in the classroom so the teacher can have more opportunities to give that one on one time to the students - help her grade those 32 papers so she has time to work with the kids.

My daughter was in a third grade class last year with 20 kids, 2 of which had special needs. You wouldn't believe the time that was taken away from the class because of it. So we worked with her ALOT at home. She is very bright and capable and was therefore lost in the shuffle because it was assumed that she could take care of herself and knew what was going on. Luckily, she did, but we worked alot on Math with her at home - that's the key whether there is 20 kids or 32 in my opinion.

I agree with you about the volunteering. I've already told my daughter's teacher that we parents are there for her -- she can use us to teach small groups, teach reading, whatever she needs.

I am hardly going to go into the principal's office and complain about the two 3rd grade teachers who described how the huge class will hinder their efforts. You know, when someone is as upset as these teachers are, I don't run to report them and get them in trouble. That doesn't sound like a very compassionate response. I try to understand where they are coming from. What I hear is teachers who feel betrayed, who pride themselves on doing an excellent job, and who have a huge fear that they will not be able to meet the standard to which they hold themselves. --Kind of like when your boss does something that makes it impossible for you to do at A+ job at work... it is very demoralizing.

BTW, I think my older daughter might have been in the class you are talking about, last year (though I suppose that dynamic is not uncommon). If so, THAT teacher was in tears last year, too, feeling that she was failing the rest of the students because one high-need kid was demanding ALL of her attention all day long. All the parents agreed that the kid should have had an aide or been taken out of the mainstream classroom, but... maybe there's no money for that, either?? I don't know.

It's tough to see teachers with this level of frustration.