99 replies to this topic

[Folsom Guy]

While I don't recall mandates as being labelled liberal agenda, in general, I believe the majority of those in the upper echelons of the Dept of Education are liberal. But I know all of my posts about mandates have been, get rid of them and the part of the bureaucracy that creates them and get back to funding education and making decisions at the local level.
Not once have I labelled the mandates as liberal, they are a result of excessive government and I can blame both major parties for contributing to excessive government.

Requiring kids to know basic algebra is liberal? I think it is education....

[Folsom Guy]

Missy Pari...

McCain pointed out the Washington DC schools which finally allowed some vouchers and even though they spend the most per brat per year than anywhere else in the nation, they have the lowest performance...

Let's say we introduce voucher system in Folsom...and suppose 25% students go to some pvt school. That would reduce the funds available for Folsom schools. Cuts happen and scores go down.

Folsom would soon become another Ranch Cordova or Elk Grove or Fruitridge.....

How about something new besides throwing money at the problem.

Like what?

By the way... did you know that about 25% of people employed in the public education system don't send their brats to public schools...?

Maybe it's because they know it's a sh*tty deal for their kids... cause they would know... Barry "O" doesn't send his brats to a public school does he...?

That's a lie - my observation is totally different....every Folsom resident who is a teacher in Folsom has his/her kid in FCUSD.

I didn't kno Barry O lives in Folsom...why do you keep getting so confused all the time...this about Folsom schools...our schools...not a national or international agenda....

[Dustyzz]

Well, hows this a liberal agenda/mandate?

I don't think anyone has said "liberal" (or conservative for that matter) in any of the messages regarding mandates in this thread.

[Dustyzz]

Requiring kids to know basic algebra is liberal? I think it is education....

If you would be so kind to read the posted material before you spout off, it would make this thread more valuable... or are you intentionally trying to pollute this thread with mis-information? As for your obsession with the word "liberal", please read my post above this one.

Every kid is already required to take algebra, but it is currently done during their high school tenure... this mandate requires algebra to be completed (passed) by the completion 8th grade. The reasoning behind this mandate is that some study showed that kids are better enabled to do critical thinking after they can comprehend algebra. Unfortunately once again, correlation is NOT causation. Even the teachers union agree's that some young minds are simply not ready or prepared for advanced topics like algebra by the time they start 8th grade... on the flip side some young minds are more than ready. The problem with this mandate is that it attempts to shoehorn every child into the same learning model irrespective of preparedness or ability that they have by the time they begin 8th grade. The cost associated with moving algebra to middle school is estimated to be around 3.2 billion dollars... I don't think this is wise use of taxpayer monies to do a boondoggle social experiment like this... especially during these trying economic times.

[EDF]

I did catch the debate. It's more complicated than just out-spending and underscoring. The scores are like comparing apples to oranges. Other countries report only scores for the kids on the college track -- because they do track students. We don't track kids here anymore ( meaning we don't place kids on the "smart" track from K-12 if they score a high on tests in pre-k or at the end of middle school.) We assess in multiple areas at different times and adjust what instruction and curriculum the student gets according to a variety of indicators. That will bring overall scores down because we report all kids' scores. In some European countries, if you don't score highly enough on your high school entrance exam, you get placed on the vocational track. Those kids don't even get the same curriculum as the ones against whom our scores are compared. Our scores show everyone's achievement - regular, gifted, special ed, vocational, college prep - etc. And the money? Well, that's also a different story. Many children in foreign countries aren't educated in the public system. If you've got money, your kid goes to a private school. If you don't, your kid goes through the underfunded public system -- if it even exists at all. Depends on the country and the politics, naturally. In Europe, I know for a fact that they track and report only the scores of the college-bound kids. Some schools are strictly for profit in Asia. Too bad for you if you're smart and poor (or not so smart and poor).

I do agree that administration at the state and county and some district levels is bloated and needs to be revamped and trimmed. It's a huge waste of money. We need local control back. Prop 13 destroyed that.
Pari

this is why I can't stand "teachers" and their stinking union....


http://michellemalki...ional-marriage/

they are nothing more than "liberal/socialist" commies that are putting their crap in the little mush head minds of the brats in our state....

[Parizienne]

I believe to each his own. HOWEVER, I was pretty frosted upon hearing about this in the Bee. Why is the CTA (and yes, I am a member) footing a $1 million bill for a social issue when teachers' jobs are in jeopardy and class sizes are going to be larger under the financial crisis statewide and nationwide? I am not happy about this. I don't think this should be CTA's battle.

The union does what it does. It's not exactly reflecting every teacher's priorities in this case.


Pari.

this is why I can't stand "teachers" and their stinking union....
http://michellemalki...ional-marriage/

they are nothing more than "liberal/socialist" commies that are putting their crap in the little mush head minds of the brats in our state....

[Folsom Guy]

If you would be so kind to read the posted material before you spout off, it would make this thread more valuable... or are you intentionally trying to pollute this thread with mis-information? As for your obsession with the word "liberal", please read my post above this one.

Every kid is already required to take algebra, but it is currently done during their high school tenure... this mandate requires algebra to be completed (passed) by the completion 8th grade. The reasoning behind this mandate is that some study showed that kids are better enabled to do critical thinking after they can comprehend algebra. Unfortunately once again, correlation is NOT causation. Even the teachers union agree's that some young minds are simply not ready or prepared for advanced topics like algebra by the time they start 8th grade... on the flip side some young minds are more than ready. The problem with this mandate is that it attempts to shoehorn every child into the same learning model irrespective of preparedness or ability that they have by the time they begin 8th grade. The cost associated with moving algebra to middle school is estimated to be around 3.2 billion dollars... I don't think this is wise use of taxpayer monies to do a boondoggle social experiment like this... especially during these trying economic times.

I think you've been using the term special interests and EDF liberal/commy. I likened the two.

As for Algebra, Algebra I is typically taught in 8th grade and Algebra II in 10th. Often, students move on to high school without completing Alg I and have more difficulty with Alg II. So, I don't see any issue with Alg I being required in middle school level. In fact, it will then reduce the distractions in high school - they wouldn't have to offere remedial courses and just focus on next courses....

[Folsom Guy]

this is why I can't stand "teachers" and their stinking union....
http://michellemalki...ional-marriage/

they are nothing more than "liberal/socialist" commies that are putting their crap in the little mush head minds of the brats in our state....

You don't have much to say about Folsom schools...do you...

[tessieca]

As for Algebra, Algebra I is typically taught in 8th grade and Algebra II in 10th.

Not so. When my son was in 8th grade there was a whole One Class at the middle school. While that has changed somewhat, you will find a rare 10th grader taking Algebra II.

In any event, that's just one more mandate added to 38 others that the state requires but then doesn't fund. There are also several federal mandates that aren't fully funded, for example, IDEA and NCLB. The California School Boards Association is suing the state to get funding for the mandates.

"There are 38 laws on the books that will cost schools an estimated $160 million in staff time or resources, said Richard Hamilton, director of the school board association's Education Legal Alliance.

That includes costs associated with administering the High School Exit Exam, keeping immunization records, creating school safety plans and running habitual truant programs, among others."

[Folsom Guy]

Not so. When my son was in 8th grade there was a whole One Class at the middle school. While that has changed somewhat, you will find a rare 10th grader taking Algebra II.

My children graduated from Folsom Middle just recently - and have friends who children graduated from Sutter Middle....most of the 8th graders afre in Alg I class...and then there are some who take Geometry which is typically offered in 9th.

And go to Folsom High or Vista del Lago High....there are relatively fewer students in 11th or higher needing Alg II, implying most get it done by 10th grade.

In any event, that's just one more mandate added to 38 others that the state requires but then doesn't fund. There are also several federal mandates that aren't fully funded, for example, IDEA and NCLB. The California School Boards Association is suing the state to get funding for the mandates.

"There are 38 laws on the books that will cost schools an estimated $160 million in staff time or resources, said Richard Hamilton, director of the school board association's Education Legal Alliance.

That includes costs associated with administering the High School Exit Exam, keeping immunization records, creating school safety plans and running habitual truant programs, among others."

I strongly believe that kids who move ahead in class should be allowed to only if they have mastered the subjects. It is a shame that mandates are required, but, if local boards don't, then am glad someone is expecting standards. As long as mandates remain around academic achievements, I have no issues with it.

Kids should be studing and learning in the class....why should there be additional funding to ensure that they learn...I say, we oughta charge kids and their parents if they don't perform well...'coz if they are not learning in the class, it is highly likely they are making mischief and preventing others from learning. But, I know that cannot happen...was just sayin rhetorically...

[FolsomResident2002]

Show me accountability and then I'll consider an voting for an increase in my taxes. Right now I get taxed enough and don't want any more of my little salary going to the government!!!

[FolsomResident2002]

I agree

AMEN!!!! Throwing more money at this problem WILL NOT FIX IT! True reform is badly needed and it needs to start at the top... we need to clean house with the multiple layers of bureaucrats who do nothing but perpetuate the status quo, stop the never ending stream of special interest mandates, and immediately remove any programs that aren't directly associated with the school systems #1 mission... educating the children.

[FolsomResident2002]

Thanks for the great explanation. Most 8th graders are not ready for the subject. We're teaching algebra in first grade already!

If you would be so kind to read the posted material before you spout off, it would make this thread more valuable... or are you intentionally trying to pollute this thread with mis-information? As for your obsession with the word "liberal", please read my post above this one.

Every kid is already required to take algebra, but it is currently done during their high school tenure... this mandate requires algebra to be completed (passed) by the completion 8th grade. The reasoning behind this mandate is that some study showed that kids are better enabled to do critical thinking after they can comprehend algebra. Unfortunately once again, correlation is NOT causation. Even the teachers union agree's that some young minds are simply not ready or prepared for advanced topics like algebra by the time they start 8th grade... on the flip side some young minds are more than ready. The problem with this mandate is that it attempts to shoehorn every child into the same learning model irrespective of preparedness or ability that they have by the time they begin 8th grade. The cost associated with moving algebra to middle school is estimated to be around 3.2 billion dollars... I don't think this is wise use of taxpayer monies to do a boondoggle social experiment like this... especially during these trying economic times.

[EDF]

You don't have much to say about Folsom schools...do you...

the point of this thread was to get more $$$ to the schools here...

I pointed out why I am against it... and I have several reasons...

one of them is that the stinking teachers and their unions don't really have our kids education as their 1st priority....

their support of Prop 8 is just one example...

Pari while disavowing the CTA's one million dollar contribution to th "no on 8" campaign is a joke... because she said unions do what they do...

Well... she's a member... and she did nothing to stop that... just like all the other teachers I have encountered over the years... they hate their union in a private conversation with you... but nothing changes and they go along.... to get along...

[dori2u]

the point of this thread was to get more $$$ to the schools here...

I pointed out why I am against it... and I have several reasons...

one of them is that the stinking teachers and their unions don't really have our kids education as their 1st priority....

their support of Prop 8 is just one example...

Pari while disavowing the CTA's one million dollar contribution to th "no on 8" campaign is a joke... because she said unions do what they do...

Well... she's a member... and she did nothing to stop that... just like all the other teachers I have encountered over the years... they hate their union in a private conversation with you... but nothing changes and they go along.... to get along...

Special EDF, let's make a wager. I bet I can take the required courses, become a realtor, and sell a house before you can be an ineffective teacher!
Get back to me at Sharks Game