82 replies to this topic

[Robert Gary]

According to Wikipedia I was wrong. I think this is even worse for the driver --which it should be.



{The various versions of "driving under the influence" generally constitute a misdemeanor (punishable by up to one year in jail). However, the offense may be elevated to a felony (punishable by a longer term in state prison) if the incident caused serious injury (felony DUI), death (vehicular manslaughter or vehicular homicide), or extensive property damage (a state specified dollar amount) or if the defendant has a designated number of prior DUI convictions within a given time period (commonly, 3 prior convictions within 7 years). California, which is being followed by a growing number of states, now charges second-degree murder where the legal state of mind of malice exists -- that is, where the defendant exhibited a reckless indifference to the lives of others.}


------I suppose that is on;y if the driver succeeds in killing the person, while driving?

That is where it gets harder. Its one thing to ask a jury to determine the person was drunk (based on testing) and then determine they hurt someone. Once you get into higher charges you have to prove more things that are less precise like "reckless disregard", "reasonable person", etc. In addition, it’s always up to the state if they want to go after it as a felony or a misdemeanor. The problem with a misdemeanor is that it can prevent someone from living a normal life after they serve their time. They cannot vote, they cannot get most white collar jobs, get licensed as an attorney, medical doctors, day care provider, etc. Even in cases where a felony is sought the defendant's attorney will always go back to the judge after the time has been served and asked to reduce it. This person did a really bad thing but I just hope people really understand what a felony record does to the rest of a person's life.

BTW: Its a myth that you must have a BAC of .08 to be convicted of DUI. The penal code also allows for a DUI conviction if an individual is "impaired" or is a drug or alcohol addict (even when sober).

-Robert

[camay2327]

I never said it wasn't a crime. I also believe it was a mistake. Should she get off? Should she serve time? I think that's for a court to decide.

The point is that she's a person. She isn't a monster. If it turns out that she's a criminal, well, then she's a person who committed a crime and will do her time for it.
We don't know all of the facts. That is why it should be up to the courts to decide her guilt or innocence and the appropriate penalty -- not a bunch of people on a community forum who have nothing better to do than demonize this person.

Drunk driving is horrible and inexusable, yes. I have two friends who were killed by drunken drivers in two separate incidents. I also know that people DO make mistakes. We all SHOULD know better, but unfortunately, life doesn't always work that way.


Pari.

If she got caught driving drunk here, I am almost sure that she has driven many times before, drunk, and not caught.

[supermom]

If she got caught driving drunk here, I am almost sure that she has driven many times before, drunk, and not caught.

I'm not going to make such a predjudice as this.

My point, though, is that when people say "she made a bad choice"

What they should be saying is "she chose to break the law, and she chose to willfully endanger a persons life"


She does need to be prosecuted for that.

And if that screws up her chances of getting a job later on.....

That was her choice______

[sunnyCA]

I'm not going to make such a predjudice as this.

My point, though, is that when people say "she made a bad choice"

What they should be saying is "she chose to break the law, and she chose to willfully endanger a persons life"


She does need to be prosecuted for that.

And if that screws up her chances of getting a job later on.....

That was her choice______

Yes!...thank you for your concise summary--you said it well. This is exactly what I was saying earlier. Like you, I am not going to demonize this woman and I certainly don't presume to guess what she has or has not done in the past. The bottom line is that if the evidence shows she drove drunk, then she should be punished for that crime.

[Parizienne]

I am not saying she should be exonerated or that she shouldn't pay for any crime she did commit.

I am saying it's not our place to judge her by calling her an idiot, etc.

<sigh>

Not being PC isn't just about defining everything in black & white terms. The novel 1984 term double-speak was all about the use of PC words to change the meaning.

Driving Under the Influence or Driving While Intoxicated are direct violations of the Vehicle Code. If we as a society allow people to get away with "making mistakes", we end up encouraging this behavior. Our society used to be more lax about drinking and driving, but MADD brought about some real changes. But our society still tolerates this behavior far too much, and as long as we tolerate it, it will continue.

[supermom]

I am not saying she should be exonerated or that she shouldn't pay for any crime she did commit.

I am saying it's not our place to judge her by calling her an idiot, etc.

<sigh>

ok---you wanna be nice 'cause she is someone that works with the schools.

fine.

But a drunk is drunk, a murderer a murderer, a thief a thief.

There are always some possibilites that a murderer is not a murderer ( like being framed )
And perhaps the same for a thief.

But a drunk--hitting someone with their car--testing twice over the limit?

That's a double whammy.

Thats a drunk murderer (or attempted murderer)

Which in my book--makes them an idiot, or a psychopath.

Pick one.

[Parizienne]

HOLY COW! You are almost sure? Are you, really?
That's quite a statement, indeed.

If she got caught driving drunk here, I am almost sure that she has driven many times before, drunk, and not caught.

[supermom]

HOLY COW! You are almost sure? Are you, really?
That's quite a statement, indeed.

Sadly--there are studies out there that support his view point.

[Parizienne]

No, not because she works for the school -- because she IS my co-worker. I see her on a daily basis. Are we friends? Not really -- more like acquaintances. It astonishes me to see the judgment of people who do not know anything about this woman except what the media has released. I am so glad that police officer was not killed. She is the sort of person that would not be able to forgive herself for that -- and probably she won't be able to forgive herself for hurting him. We should all have such a conscience.

Yes her BAC was about twice the legal limit.
Is it unlikely she was drunk? No.
Should she have been driving? No.
Do I know why she would get into a car and try to get home in that condition? No.
Will she have to pay for this crime? Yes.

What it all says to me is that there was more to the story. Will it exonerate her? Probably not.

So go ahead and gloat on it. Nothing I can say will change the appetite for blood around here.


Pari.

ok---you wanna be nice 'cause she is someone that works with the schools.

fine.

But a drunk is drunk, a murderer a murderer, a thief a thief.

There are always some possibilites that a murderer is not a murderer ( like being framed )
And perhaps the same for a thief.

But a drunk--hitting someone with their car--testing twice over the limit?

That's a double whammy.

Thats a drunk murderer (or attempted murderer)

Which in my book--makes them an idiot, or a psychopath.

Pick one.

[Bill Z]

I am not saying she should be exonerated or that she shouldn't pay for any crime she did commit.

I am saying it's not our place to judge her by calling her an idiot, etc.

<sigh>

I don't know, I think running into a cop car while drunk is pretty idiotic.
don't you?

[Parizienne]

Yes, I have seen those studies.

I don't think this information applies here.

Pari.

Sadly--there are studies out there that support his view point.

[Parizienne]

Yep. I suppose it is!

Good call!

I don't know, I think running into a cop car while drunk is pretty idiotic.
don't you?

[tsukiji]

Truth in posting...she did not get off scott free and she did not get a year in county jail instead of seven years of prison. She got a year in county jail, five years of probation and the option of going to prison for seven years if she violates her probation after she serves her year.. oh yeah and also having to live with herself for the next 65 or 70 years...

Not taking sides here...but let's at least attempt to get the facts straight.

Fair enough. Technically you are correct. But from my perspective, she basically got off scott free. The punishment, in my mind, does not come close to fitting the crime. Anyway, the point was that it seems that we are very lax with DUI in this area, especially relative to other industrialized countries in the EU and Asia.

[supermom]

No, not because she works for the school -- because she IS my co-worker. I see her on a daily basis. Are we friends? Not really -- more like acquaintances. It astonishes me to see the judgment of people who do not know anything about this woman except what the media has released. I am so glad that police officer was not killed. She is the sort of person that would not be able to forgive herself for that -- and probably she won't be able to forgive herself for hurting him. We should all have such a conscience.

Yes her BAC was about twice the legal limit.
Is it unlikely she was drunk? No.
Should she have been driving? No.
Do I know why she would get into a car and try to get home in that condition? No.
Will she have to pay for this crime? Yes.

What it all says to me is that there was more to the story. Will it exonerate her? Probably not.

So go ahead and gloat on it. Nothing I can say will change the appetite for blood around here.


Pari.

***flinch*** I am not gloating. On the contrary---I am angry, remiss, feel a bit like C_Vanderveen accuses us all of feeling sympathy (because I recognize that she prolly does have kids and a hubby)--I understand the the social, employment, emotional, marital, family. and mental matters of this. I understand because I have known people out there who have been in the same shoes--she finds herself in.

I'm not after her blood, per se.

But Good Garsh--how in the world can you live to be in your 30's, and not be aware that taking in any kind of alcohol requires PRIOR planning?

This was not an accident.

Accidents happen all the time. People accidently press on the gas instead of the break in bad traffic and have a fender bender.

People do not accidently have a drink of alcohol then get behind a moving vehicle and cause harm to another person.

I can't and I won't make excuses or blithely say--oops, she made a bad judgement call.

I can't think of one single country in the world that does not have laws against driving after drinking. This is not a new concept.

But, Pari---don't think I don't have a heart.

I just have one that was once ripped out by a drunk driver.

[bv1016]

I find it odd that her situation even remotely matters.

I was layed off last week, my husand is getting a 10% pay cut starting next month because he is a CO... with no furlough days, my previous employer paid all our benefits, we now have to pick up his, thats another $450 out of our pocket after my layoff and his paycut. AND my 6 year threw a MAJOR tantrum today, in front of friends and family...

None of the above although they ALL suck, are a reason to make a bad choice.

I would love to get drunk and pass out, maybe forget my problems... but instead I will continue to review my bills, create a resume, email, network and so on because that is the right choice.

Just saying we always have choices, thats what I teach my children...

This thread is going in this direction because people even subtly are attempting to make excuses or explanations for choices...

Like I said if in fact she did drink, drive, and hit a car that hit a person... if that is found to be true, Then there can be no more added to the story on her behalf because again regardless of lifes crap, or circumstances if a person... drinks.. drives... hits car... hits person...

then thats all there is. And yes that IS most definitely BLACK and WHITE!