76 replies to this topic

[Bill Z]

the vaccine is not here yet for h1n1 unless it is nasal mist and your mom is under 49>
I am confused. Is the injectable form out and if so what facility did she get it from?

My husband works at Sutter and they do not have it.


Could you elaborate of this for us.

Thanks

Hi mary56,

I think Dave already elaborated on this. His mom "lives in the boonies in the desert", so she doesn't live here, she lives somewhere else, not everyplace gets the vaccine delivered at the same time, we obviously aren't one of the first places to receive it.

[ducky]

Bottom line is that some parents are GAMBLING with their kids. The CDC and the WHO and all the State and Health Departments are extremely concerned about this as they are encouraging parents to vaccinate their kids.

So the question is, do feel like gambling mood? Will you say screw you to OVERWHELMING scientific community supporting the vaccine in favor of junk science at best?????

Maybe this article will help you understand how getting the vaccine could also be viewed as a gamble. Please note the number of cases of GB in this short period of time.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ogdbfrom=pubmed

Guillain-Barre syndrome following vaccination in the National Influenza Immunization Program, United States, 1976--1977.Schonberger LB, Bregman DJ, Sullivan-Bolyai JZ, Keenlyside RA, Ziegler DW, Retailliau HF, Eddins DL, Bryan JA.

Because of an increase in the number of reports of Guillian-Barre syndrome (GBS) following A/New Jersey influenza vaccination, the National Influenza Immunization Program was suspended December 16, 1976 and nationwide surveillance for GBS was begun. This surveillance uncovered a total of 1098 patients with onset of GBS from October 1, 1976, to January 31, 1977, from all 50 states, District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. A total of 532 patients had recently received an A/New Jersey influenza vaccination prior to their onset of GBS (vaccinated cases), and 15 patients received a vaccination after their onset of GBS. Five hundred forty-three patients had not been recently vaccinated with A/New Jersey influenza vaccine and the vaccination status for 8 was unknown. Epidemiologic evidence indicated that many cases of GBS were related to vaccination. When compared to the unvaccinated population, the vaccinated population had a significantly elevated attack rate in every adult age group. The estimated attributable risk of vaccine-related GBS in the adult population was just under one case per 100,000 vaccinations. The period of increased risk was concentrated primarily within the 5-week period after vaccination, although it lasted for approximately 9 or 10 weeks.

[bordercolliefan]

Maybe this article will help you understand how getting the vaccine could also be viewed as a gamble. Please note the number of cases of GB in this short period of time.

That was a terrible event, but the CDC has said that this flu vaccine is not comparable to the 1976 vaccine. This flu vaccine is made following the protocol of the ordinary flu vaccine, which has been judged safe for many years now.

Nonetheless, I agree with you in principle that I would not be comfortable being one of the very first people vaccinated. I figure we "normal risk" people will have to wait 3-4 more weeks anyway, and by then any unusual side effects will be manifest.

I had the same feeling with the cervical cancer vaccine. I was glad my daughters were only about 6 or 7 when it came out. I knew they could wait 6 or 7 more years before getting the vaccine, during which time its safety would be more clear (they still have several years to wait).

[ducky]

That was a terrible event, but the CDC has said that this flu vaccine is not comparable to the 1976 vaccine. This flu vaccine is made following the protocol of the ordinary flu vaccine, which has been judged safe for many years now.

Nonetheless, I agree with you in principle that I would not be comfortable being one of the very first people vaccinated. I figure we "normal risk" people will have to wait 3-4 more weeks anyway, and by then any unusual side effects will be manifest.

I had the same feeling with the cervical cancer vaccine. I was glad my daughters were only about 6 or 7 when it came out. I knew they could wait 6 or 7 more years before getting the vaccine, during which time its safety would be more clear (they still have several years to wait).

Bordercolliefan, you have obviously given this a lot of thought and I agree with your rationale. I'm thinking the wait-and-see approach is best.

[mary56]

Hi mary56,

I think Dave already elaborated on this. His mom "lives in the boonies in the desert", so she doesn't live here, she lives somewhere else, not everyplace gets the vaccine delivered at the same time, we obviously aren't one of the first places to receive it.

THERE IS NO VACCINE INJECTABLE ANYWHERE ESPECIALLY 2 WEEKS AGO. THE BIG CITIES WOULD GET IT ANYWAY. I DO ALOT OF RESEARCH. DO IT YOURSELF. THERE IS ONLY NASAL VACCINE FOR PEOPLE UNDER 49. THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS DO NOT HAVE IT. HERE IS THE DEAL THIS ALLEGED INCIDENT ALSO STATED THAT THE MD HAD BEEN SEEING THIS ALOT............ SO SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE

[mary56]

Bordercolliefan, you have obviously given this a lot of thought and I agree with your rationale. I'm thinking the wait-and-see approach is best.

I AGREE, WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. THERE IS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INVESTED ON THIS. NO DO YOU NOT ALL THINK IT IS STRANGE THAT OTHER COUNTRIES THAT HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS IN THE SPRING, LIKE CANADA, ENGLAND AND GERMANY, ARE HAVING NOTHING AS NEAR AS THE US. PEOPLE DO YOUR HOMEWORK. NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU DUCKY.

WAIT AND SEE THE BEST APPROACH, BUT BE CAUTIOUS.

[Bill Z]

THERE IS NO VACCINE INJECTABLE ANYWHERE ESPECIALLY 2 WEEKS AGO. THE BIG CITIES WOULD GET IT ANYWAY. I DO ALOT OF RESEARCH. DO IT YOURSELF. THERE IS ONLY NASAL VACCINE FOR PEOPLE UNDER 49. THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS DO NOT HAVE IT. HERE IS THE DEAL THIS ALLEGED INCIDENT ALSO STATED THAT THE MD HAD BEEN SEEING THIS ALOT............ SO SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT HERE

Please stop yelling at me and at BCF. We haven't yelled at you or called you names or anything else to warrant your outburst.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

Sorry I do not watch foxnews as I may I have missed some world renowned doctors and researchers from the CDC and WHO publicly blast the safety of this vaccine as they encouraged parents not to participate in this program.

Deb, I am dissapointed that of all the people, you, have failed to to provide any evidence as you hide behind the shroud of "I am busy gal....." argument. I have a lot of respect for your meticulous knack for evidence on these boards as you have been very helpful to me and others by finding amazing articles and evidence based arguments.

My deepest apologies to you and anyone that is offended by my tone, but IF I see a child suffer because of WILLFUL crime by adults, I can't sit silent. I have to speak my mind.

These parents might as well purchase super violent video games for their kids for XMAS and choose not to buckle them in because the evidence on those fronts may be questionable as well.

I do not watch Fox Noise, nor do I listen to Rush or read National Enquirer -- and I have no idea why you assume that doctors who are expressing caution regarding this vaccine only air those opinions in those venues.

As I said, I've seen or heard these interviews from doctors in several countries for several months. It never occurred to me to write down their names, and I'm generally not good at remembering names I don't think I'm going to need again.

I'm always perturbed when a member of this forum puts the responsibility to do research on another member; nothing is stopping you from researching the concern side of this issue. I don't need to or have the time do this research for you to prove that even within the medical community there is concern over whether this vaccine has been rushed to market with insufficient testing. Whether it is safe remains to be seen. If you're disappointed because I'm not doing your homework... well, I guess you'll have to be disappointed.

Back to my projects........................

[mary56]

Please stop yelling at me and at BCF. We haven't yelled at you or called you names or anything else to warrant your outburst.

I did not know that BOLD letters meant yelling. I just found that out. I was just trying to get my point across, not yelling. I apologize.

[palango]

I do not watch Fox Noise, nor do I listen to Rush or read National Enquirer -- and I have no idea why you assume that doctors who are expressing caution regarding this vaccine only air those opinions in those venues.

As I said, I've seen or heard these interviews from doctors in several countries for several months. It never occurred to me to write down their names, and I'm generally not good at remembering names I don't think I'm going to need again.

I'm always perturbed when a member of this forum puts the responsibility to do research on another member; nothing is stopping you from researching the concern side of this issue. I don't need to or have the time do this research for you to prove that even within the medical community there is concern over whether this vaccine has been rushed to market with insufficient testing. Whether it is safe remains to be seen. If you're disappointed because I'm not doing your homework... well, I guess you'll have to be disappointed.

Back to my projects........................

Let me UNperturb you for a second because I know you are super busy. Your fisrt response was that you have heard various media sources about concerns from physicians (not crazy parents because that is a fact) regarding the safety of this H1N1 vaccine. Subsequently, you failed to provide any evidence. So, to help you out, I conduct a google and yahoo search for these concerns via the following:

http://www.google.co...u...mp;oq=&aqi=

and

http://search.yahoo....mp;fr=yfp-t-701

Funny thing happened. I could not find actual PRACTICING physicians that would RISK their license and a possible lawsuit by coming out in the media and encouraging folks to go against the CDC, the WHO, and the overwhelming majority of the scientific ciommunity.

These IRRATIONAL parents are risking their kids lives based on urban legend and junk science should talk to the parents of the 19 kids that died LAST week to see if they would recomment vaccine or not.

here are some facts per CDC:

Thirty-seven states are reporting widespread influenza activity at this time. They are: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. Any reports of widespread influenza activity in September and October are very unusual.


Total influenza hospitalization rates for laboratory-confirmed influenza are higher than expected for this time of year for adults and children. And for children 5-17 and adults 18-49 years of age, hospitalization rates from April – October 2009 exceed average flu season rates (for October through April).

And parents will still GAMBLE. Please read these FAQs and Myths:

http://www.flu.gov/myths/index.html

[ducky]

Maybe it's just me, but I remember that in the beginning of the school year children would always get sick just from being in a classroom together, especially in the younger grades, so I don't think it is that unusual for children to get sick in September and October. I always thought that preschool and kindergarten teachers must have mega immune systems if they make it to Christmas without getting sick.

It sounds like they don't have enough vaccines to go around right now, so I'd rather forego it so it's available for people in high-risk groups.

Does anyone know if you got the vaccine back in '76 and managed not to get GB if you are already covered for this strain of H1N1?

[harrmill]

It sounds like they don't have enough vaccines to go around right now, so I'd rather forego it so it's available for people in high-risk groups.

I concur with this approach for me and my family, for the same reason. Additionally, I think the fears about side-effects of a new vaccine are warranted. We will probably get the vaccine, but not right away. Me, wife and kids have never gotten a flu shot, but this one does give us pause, and we will likely act when the time is right (for us). I am not passing judgement on anyone for chosing a different course.

It is regrettable that this discussion has taken a negative tone in some areas. I was only curious about people's opinions on getting the vaccine. I was not intending to get people all riled up about this - that is for the politics forum.

Thanks for all the views and opinions!

[mary56]

Maybe it's just me, but I remember that in the beginning of the school year children would always get sick just from being in a classroom together, especially in the younger grades, so I don't think it is that unusual for children to get sick in September and October. I always thought that preschool and kindergarten teachers must have mega immune systems if they make it to Christmas without getting sick.

It sounds like they don't have enough vaccines to go around right now, so I'd rather forego it so it's available for people in high-risk groups.

Does anyone know if you got the vaccine back in '76 and managed not to get GB if you are already covered for this strain of H1N1?

From what my understanding is no you are not covered by the 76 vaccine for this particular strain. I see the media is really jumping on this. Funny, they did not say anything about all the kids deaths until the vaccines came out!!!!!!

[mary56]

I concur with this approach for me and my family, for the same reason. Additionally, I think the fears about side-effects of a new vaccine are warranted. We will probably get the vaccine, but not right away. Me, wife and kids have never gotten a flu shot, but this one does give us pause, and we will likely act when the time is right (for us). I am not passing judgement on anyone for chosing a different course.

It is regrettable that this discussion has taken a negative tone in some areas. I was only curious about people's opinions on getting the vaccine. I was not intending to get people all riled up about this - that is for the politics forum.

Thanks for all the views and opinions!

Yes, this did get out of control. Palango should apologize and not be so rude. I apologized, as I am so computer dumb and did not know capital letters meant you were screaming.
I am with you, I am taking a wait and see attitude too. I think I had in April anyway. If not, oh well, time to go, then so be it.

[palango]

Yes, this did get out of control. Palango should apologize and not be so rude. I apologized, as I am so computer dumb and did not know capital letters meant you were screaming.
I am with you, I am taking a wait and see attitude too. I think I had in April anyway. If not, oh well, time to go, then so be it.

Apologize for what?? For these irrational parents that will gamble with their kids lives based on urban legend and junk science? For asking ANYONE to show me some CREDIBLE evidence of actual physicians asking parents in the media NOT to vaccinate?

Like I said, 19 kids died last week and these selfish parents trying to justify their UFO reasons need to be locked in a room with the grieving parents so they can wake up to the reality.

For the record, yesterday @ 4:17 Pm (if you check out my earlier post), I did apologize. I get very upset when parents utilize completely irrational reasoning or unscientific research to put their kids in harms way. They might as well blow smoke puffs in their kids face because the evidence of second hand smoking is overblow too per some crazy conspiracies theories out there.