71 replies to this topic

[4thgenFolsomite]

Ok, so I have a little history book published by the Folsom Historical Society, "Images of America, Folsom, Ca." I see reference (p. 61) that the name "Negro Bar" has been around at least since 1851 when Father Ingoldsby conducted church services there. On page 56, there is a picture of the Picker building, now under Folsom Lake, but previously located on Mormon Island. It says, "other towns that once thrived in this area were known by these colorful names: Jenny Lind Flat, Negro Hill, Condemned Bar, Elephant Flat, Rattlesnake Bar, Red Bank, Maple Ridge, Poker Bar and Salmon Falls."

It sounds like Negro Bar was not very big, per the Folsom History Museum, it was "little more than a cluster of tents and shacks." According to other sources ( http://files.usgwarchives.net/ca/eldorado/cemeteries/mormon-island.txt ) the graves were taken from a variety of cemeteries.

actually Negro Bar, which was located just below the corporation yard here in Folsom was about two blocks long and included many framed buildings, including at least two two-story buildings. There were hotels, stores, a doctor, etc. It existed from 1849 to 1855, when the whole town relocated up to what is now the Sutter Street area after the arrival of the railroad.

Negro Hill and "N-word" Hill were located in the area now inundated by Folsom Lake. And it was during the gold rush known by the N-word. There was even a ditch with the same name. So it is an accurate historic word, even if it is offensive.

[MikeinFolsom]

Why does everyone have such a problem with this "N Word"? Black guys call other black guys that name all the time. It's when someone not black uses the word, the world falls apart? Gimme a break. The things were made over 50 years ago when that word was used pretty regularly, although not in a positive manner. So was the word 'slave'. We still use that a lot too. Grow a thick skin and quit being a big baby about the whole deal. So someone disagrees with someone else on the forum. Big whoopdeedoo. You want to quit the forum....quit the forum. Are you looking for an ego-builder to see how many people are going to sing your praises and hope that you come back to the forum? Wow....I guess if you need that kinda thing in your life.......

[Steve Heard]

Why does everyone have such a problem with this "N Word"? Black guys call other black guys that name all the time. It's when someone not black uses the word, the world falls apart? Gimme a break. The things were made over 50 years ago when that word was used pretty regularly, although not in a positive manner. So was the word 'slave'. We still use that a lot too. Grow a thick skin and quit being a big baby about the whole deal. So someone disagrees with someone else on the forum. Big whoopdeedoo. You want to quit the forum....quit the forum. Are you looking for an ego-builder to see how many people are going to sing your praises and hope that you come back to the forum? Wow....I guess if you need that kinda thing in your life.......

Lots of ways we can look at this scenario.

I am a black guy and I do not use it all the time, although I know that there are many who do, and according to my two daughters who were raised here, so do a lot of white kids. I once asked one of my daughters how often she hears it, and she said, 'all the time. It's how they refer to black people (and strangely, some of the white kid refer to each other with that word). It doesn't make it right.

The 'they did it too' argument has never been a successful defense, has it?

You can make any word derogatory, including 'slave' but be real, the 'n-word' has never been used by whites as complimentary.

I wish people would use common decency and respect themselves and each other, and treat the 'n' word as we do the 'f' word. We sure wouldn't want that on grave stones, or written in public places, even if someone wrote it a long time ago and hey, 'people call each other that all the time'.

[4thgenFolsomite]

if people are hurt by the word on the monument, there is no reason to leave it in place if locals have raised the money to replace it. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't serve the same purpose to say, "These graves were relocated from a number of historic cemeteries now under Folsom Lake during the construction of Folsom Dam." Most people would want to know what cemetery they had been buried in though and that would get tricky because it seems like you would want to use the correct historic name of the cemetery the individual body came from. And the historic name was "N***** Hill Cemetery." The people that lived and died there and were buried in that cemetery knew that name and used it themselves. So maybe the larger monument doesn't use the word and the individual ones do? Maybe it will compel people who are curious to do research on the history of blacks in the area because it truely is a very interesting history.

[asbestoshills]

If the black community wants to change it, change it. However, I don't think we need to hear white people's opinions on the matter. After all, white people were the ones who called the black people this derogatory name, so why should they have any say on if the black community wants it changed.

[nomad]

If the black community wants to change it, change it. However, I don't think we need to hear white people's opinions on the matter. After all, white people were the ones who called the black people this derogatory name, so why should they have any say on if the black community wants it changed.

Wow this reply was unexpected....not.

[4thgenFolsomite]

I don't think white people have ever cornered the market on racism. I believe all races have expressed racism against all other races at some point or another.

and, again, we don't know the race of the people who were reintered at the relocation cemetery. They would very easily be Chinese.

[john]

I think for something like this - if the headstones were changed, maybe a plaque or something that explains the original name and maybe a little history of the community. Even though our history is not pretty at times, it's a valuable educational opportunity for our children. We can talk to them about how times have changed and how we don't use this word anymore and why it's not OK to use.

However I agree with most in that we shouldn't just revise history because it's considered offensive today. We can't pretend it didn't happen, but we can certainly learn from it.

[chris v]

I think that's my whole point. History should never be erased no matter how good or bad it is. Without history we can never grow as a society and we possibly could make the same mistakes we made in the past.

[MrsTuffPaws]

Seems to me that censoring an offensive word just gives more power to that word and makes it even more offensive. I never really understood that reasoning.

[asbestoshills]

You are not erasing history, you are giving repect to a deceased relative. There could be a plaque explaining the changes. Like I said, if the family of the deceased or the community feel like they don't want their people called "Ns" anymore, why the hell do you care? Were your people ever enslaved in this country? Hell, on the news today there was a murder of a white supremist in Citrus Heights. When you will see that racism is still a big issue in America. It was just last summer that all of the white kids in an Alabama public pool ran out when the black and hispanic kids went swimming. We have a long way to go. The laws have changed, but there are still many white people that can't stand miniorities and some of them are on this forum.
I don't care who says the "N" word, but I do care about the context it's said in and the intention. However, it's not for me to decide b/c these weren't my ancestors. Let the African AMerican community of Folsom decide what they think it's right.

[asbestoshills]

So what's your logic regarding the massive use of that word today in the rap community?
Are all those guys really white and we just don't know it???

If you have the attention span to handle it - read this link all about the usage of that word in history and today
Won’t You Please Be My N****: Double Standards with a Taboo Word

What does the rap community have to do with changing the "N" word on gravestones? Intention and context are the difference in any derogatory word. Are you really that naive to not know the difference?