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Waste Connections Says, "good Bye, Folsom"


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#46 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

Where did your $2m figure come from? The WM CEO barely makes more than that (2.48m), so I think you are shooting way too high with that figure. That is not realistic for the average employee, even at the corporate headquarters. If the CEO was moving by himself, then it would make since.

For the average employee, if all other taxes were the same from state, then your hypothesis would be almost correct. The first problem is your figure is based on the gross tax rate and not the effective tax rate. If the employee pays federal income taxes, then their burden would be somewhat lower. That is not a big deal though. The main problem are property tax rates are 2-4x higher than California. People typically spend the same amount on housing despite price differences from region to region. (aka: Someone selling a home in CA would likely spend the same amount on a home in TX based on the same amount of income.)

The difference in tax burden for a family of three making $150,000 is $8,909 or 5.9% lower in Texas vs California, NOT taking into account increased property taxes. That part sounds great, except that incomes are 8% lower for the same positions in Texas. In the future, Waste Management gets to look forward to paying their corporate employees, on average, 8% less than here in California. That is a 2% pay cut. This may not apply to the current employees, but it would most certainly factor into COL increases and new hires from employee attrition. The corporation WINS and the employees LOSE.

P.S. My figure above for incomes being 8% lower is the most conservative figure I could find. Quite a few others pointed towards 30% lower, which would skew even further into the corporations favor and screw the employees more.


I randomly picked a number to show hypothetically how much one could save in State Income taxes if they moved to a state that doesn't have State income taxes. Those of us who are middle class wouldn't see a big enough savings to relocate, but those who have significant incomes, would see a substantial savings on their taxes to make this move.

I see where some on this forum are advocating boycotting certain businesses based upon criteria they feel is important. If they have these beliefs why can't others have the same opportunity to boycott paying state income taxes based upon the cumulative effect of that states politicians passing laws, that some are adamently opposed too and where their tax dollars are being used to pay for programs they are opposed too?

Its mind boggling to me that certain segement of our population think that they can pass laws and force philosophies onto everyone without there being reactions, while they advocate boycotts on certain businesses. In other words, they have the right to take action, but others don't have that same right.

Given the number of Propositions in the works that will all be raising taxes on the wealthy and given the collective recent legislation that has been passed on issues where there are some extremely passionate beliefs on both sides, we should expect to see more and more of the wealthy taking their money and leaving this state!

How will this lost revenue be made up for Government programs? The people who are leaving AREN'T the ones using Government services, they are the ones paying for it!

I read in the Bee recently where it said something to the effect that 50% of the States revenue comes from about 144,000 people. If 10% of these people decide they have had enough and leave the State, the resulting loss in revenue will sink us!

I don't want to demean or belittle my friends on the left, but how do you propose solving this?

#47 withappens

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 01:54 PM

Are you sure about those education claims? Maybe Texas as a whole doesn't compare, but one of the place that seems to be picking up companies from California is Austin, Texas, and they seem to be doing fine education-wise as the link below shows. They are a vibrant city with music festivals and, frankly, I expect we will be losing a lot of our university graduates, including those Cal Grant recipients, to jobs there and elsewhere unless something changes.

http://www.bestplaces.net/city/default.aspx?cat=EDUCATE&city=Sacramento_CA&ccity=Austin_TX&p=0664000&op=4805000


I have been to Austin and Houston many times on business trips and frankly it is not what everyone makes it out to be. Of course folks have their own preferences of where they live and their life styles. Excuses like sales tax - BS Texas has their own high sales tax that is equivalent to ours. Of course property is much cheaper, but there are pockets of those big 15,000 square foot mansions next to trailer parks. Weather stinks there - especially in Houston, 100 degrees and 90% humidity most of the summer, people are miserable.

Another comment that was made was business center and how Sacramento does not have good airline connections. Yes Houston is much better with two major airports and a hub for Continental - but when people compare Sacramento and Austin airports, they are exactly the same as for connections. You either get their thru Phoenix, Houston, DFW or Denver, ....

Texas is being touted as the next mecca in the US with Austin as its shining star - and that is fine with me. When you see Disneyland relocating to Texas then you know that the buddies in the capital have ran us in the ground. I think there is a lot of propaganda being driven by the state of Texas to increase their population/business center and the lemmings are listening.

#48 ducky

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:15 PM

I have been to Austin and Houston many times on business trips and frankly it is not what everyone makes it out to be. Of course folks have their own preferences of where they live and their life styles. Excuses like sales tax - BS Texas has their own high sales tax that is equivalent to ours. Of course property is much cheaper, but there are pockets of those big 15,000 square foot mansions next to trailer parks. Weather stinks there - especially in Houston, 100 degrees and 90% humidity most of the summer, people are miserable.

Another comment that was made was business center and how Sacramento does not have good airline connections. Yes Houston is much better with two major airports and a hub for Continental - but when people compare Sacramento and Austin airports, they are exactly the same as for connections. You either get their thru Phoenix, Houston, DFW or Denver, ....

Texas is being touted as the next mecca in the US with Austin as its shining star - and that is fine with me. When you see Disneyland relocating to Texas then you know that the buddies in the capital have ran us in the ground. I think there is a lot of propaganda being driven by the state of Texas to increase their population/business center and the lemmings are listening.



Hey, don't get me wrong. I love our weather and would love to stay here. It's just getting harder and harder when customers and jobs are leaving.

#49 Darth Lefty

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 07:28 AM

...but there are pockets of those big 15,000 square foot mansions next to trailer parks.

The castle needs to be in the center of the hovels so that when the barbarians invade, the populace can retreat behind the fortifications.
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#50 Thinkingoutloud

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 07:38 AM

Here's another good article on how corporations are dodging taxes. http://www.sfgate.co...MCI25.DTL&tsp=1

#51 andy

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:30 AM

Hey, don't get me wrong. I love our weather and would love to stay here. It's just getting harder and harder when customers and jobs are leaving.


That may be true, but what irks a lot of us is the simplistic crap that passes for explanations of why. A little intellectual rigor helps everyone.

The reasons for leaving or staying are complex and individuals make them for specific personal reasons, not idealogical ones (at leat smart people do).

Two years ago Nevada was touted as paradise and it's in worse shape than California and has nowhere near the diversity in assets to see recovery. Texas is now paradise but its budget deficit is actually worse than California's; its tide may turn, too.

Besides, the weather sucks there and it's too darn flat.

#52 bordercolliefan

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:04 AM

Texas is now paradise but its budget deficit is actually worse than California's;


Interesting post. Is this really true??

#53 (The Dude)

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:22 AM

Two years ago Nevada was touted as paradise

Texas is now paradise

Besides, the weather sucks there and it's too darn flat.


How can Nevada and Texas be considered paradise? I'm with you, their weather sucks and its too darn flat.

No amount of money would be worth moving there.

There comes a point in life when we must weigh the pros and cons of chasing the almighty dollar vs enjoying a quality of life, even if it means bad gov't and higher taxes here.

#54 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:53 AM

How can Nevada and Texas be considered paradise? I'm with you, their weather sucks and its too darn flat.

No amount of money would be worth moving there.

There comes a point in life when we must weigh the pros and cons of chasing the almighty dollar vs enjoying a quality of life, even if it means bad gov't and higher taxes here.


The wealthy can afford to relocate to Nevada or Texas and still keep a second home in California and avoid paying state income taxes to support programs they are opposed too. They get to have their cake and eat it too! Most importantly they are doing this, despite the denials of many. The undeniable proof is in California's tax revenues and growing costs to operate its State Government

The affluent DON'T need as much government services, so they don't care if they don't get services in Nevada, Texas or California as long as they aren't being forced to pay for the waste and programs they are opposed too!

The idealouges in California are killing the Golden Goose and they just can't see the big picture of reality because of their idealism.

#55 rpo

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:55 AM

Interesting post. Is this really true??


Yes. It was all over the news when they were going through their biannual budget problems. California's seems worse since we get to deal with it annually.

#56 ducky

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:32 PM

That may be true, but what irks a lot of us is the simplistic crap that passes for explanations of why. A little intellectual rigor helps everyone.

The reasons for leaving or staying are complex and individuals make them for specific personal reasons, not idealogical ones (at leat smart people do).

Two years ago Nevada was touted as paradise and it's in worse shape than California and has nowhere near the diversity in assets to see recovery. Texas is now paradise but its budget deficit is actually worse than California's; its tide may turn, too.

Besides, the weather sucks there and it's too darn flat.


Well, unless something changes here and we figure out how to stop scaring jobs and business away, I guess I'll have plenty of time to do mental gymnastics and enjoy the fantastic weather while I'm pushing a shopping cart around asking for spare change.




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