343 replies to this topic

[Robert Giacometti]

There is no proof that such an assertion is true. Merely a hearsay claim. The only witness to the fight was a 13 year old boy who said it was too dark to see who was on the ground and he never saw a second person.
[/b]

I wasn't asking for any proof or refering to any incident. It was a simple hypothetical question that no one has answered. It has nothing to do with race or clothing or age or President Obama bowling score.

I was asking IF ( hypothetically) someone was banging your head off the concrete and you were afraid you might die, would use shoot the person to save your own life? Its a simple yes or no question.

Why is it when someone asks you a simple yes or no question, you can't answer it?

The point that I was trying to make in this incident is simply did the shooter have justifiable cause to believe his life was in danger when he shot Martin? How many skittles Martin had, his race, wether he was wearing a hoodie, wether he was armed or unarmed or if the President feels like he could look like his son are all irrelevant!

IMO, we as a society have become so dysfunctional that so many look at all kinds of ancillary things instead of focusing on the fundamental issue, was the shooter justified in shooting Martin at the time he did, becasue he felt his life was in danger? Society has establised laws and a system in place to determine if the shooters actions were justified.

[old soldier]

Don't tell me that I need to shut the hell up, or that I need to stop speculating, and don't compare me to the black panthers who voice violence for attrocities committed against black people in our country.

Not once have I suggested a racial motivation that would link me to the black panther group!

There is a definite reason why people "speculate" on how a crime was committed. There are times when you can flesh out the how-then you can flesh out the why, and then you can know what the reasoning behind and action was all about.

first of all I am old soldier, not old goose. was that an accident or should I take it as a blow to my old self esteem. reading your long posts about what happened makes me think you have got some inside sources in florida and you are sharing these goodies with your my folsom pals. If you are just speculating you have a talent and you might think about being a mystery write, or do scripts for tv shows.

as old soldier (not goose) has said, his experience makes him able to see like an eagle by day and like an owl in the dark and this zimmerman case has him confused..

bottom line though I best folks like my speculation better than yours

[Priscilla]

Take your own advice and stop speculating on what you want to believe I'm doing. I am not advocating violence or racism. Do not back pedal now. You know you attacked me without provocation to further not your objection to my message; but rather to further your own statement of objection to a message you perceive in the actions of people who aren't even posting on this forum.

Chill out. And next time you want to object to al sharpton, don't tag my quotes! Just hit the reply button and fire away all about your issues with an egotistical politician that you obviously do not like.

Perhaps you did not read my post thoroughly before you got tied up in self-sanctimonious sour apple war head flavored pretzels? I specifically said : this is merely supposition on my part. Later I specifically said: In my opinion.

I'm not guessing. I am basing these actions on fights that have occurred before which created the environment for a lethal action to take place.


And again, one can not learn to stop violence if one does not explore the manner, reasoning, wherewithal, personal histories, mentalities, emotions, financial motivations, etc. Conversing and speculating is the first step in scientific theory.

LOL!

[Carl G]

As I watched Angela Corey's (special prosecutor) news conference I was a bit happy to see her really pushing hard for the maximum degree available to her. Then it struck me that this is likely why there are so many minorities in jail - prosecutors over charging people who don't have the monetary resources to pay for a proper defense. I guess it is ok when that type of thing happens to a person we don't particularly care for.

[supermom]

I wasn't asking for any proof or refering to any incident. It was a simple hypothetical question that no one has answered. It has nothing to do with race or clothing or age or President Obama bowling score.

I was asking IF ( hypothetically) someone was banging your head off the concrete and you were afraid you might die, would use shoot the person to save your own life? Its a simple yes or no question.

Why is it when someone asks you a simple yes or no question, you can't answer it?

The point that I was trying to make in this incident is simply did the shooter have justifiable cause to believe his life was in danger when he shot Martin? How many skittles Martin had, his race, wether he was wearing a hoodie, wether he was armed or unarmed or if the President feels like he could look like his son are all irrelevant!

IMO, we as a society have become so dysfunctional that so many look at all kinds of ancillary things instead of focusing on the fundamental issue, was the shooter justified in shooting Martin at the time he did, becasue he felt his life was in danger? Society has establised laws and a system in place to determine if the shooters actions were justified.

I responded to you. go back and re-read the point I made about concrete meeting head.

Why do you constantly try to piss people off be claiing they are hiding away from responding to them? Read, man, read. Stop and soak it in.

[supermom]

first of all I am old soldier, not old goose. was that an accident or should I take it as a blow to my old self esteem. reading your long posts about what happened makes me think you have got some inside sources in florida and you are sharing these goodies with your my folsom pals. If you are just speculating you have a talent and you might think about being a mystery write, or do scripts for tv shows.

as old soldier (not goose) has said, his experience makes him able to see like an eagle by day and like an owl in the dark and this zimmerman case has him confused..

bottom line though I best folks like my speculation better than yours

Sorry old soldier---the goose comment was not meant in a negative light.

I imagine the truth in what happened is probably somewhere between your opinion and mine.

I do not think it is far fetched to believe that the actions of the aggressor or the victim were necessarily above reproach. But, as I have said before-I don't believe there has been enough evidence given to the general public for me to believe it was race motivated, nor to believe that that boy has to die in order for that full grown man to feel safe.

[Robert Giacometti]

I responded to you. go back and re-read the point I made about concrete meeting head.

Why do you constantly try to piss people off be claiing they are hiding away from responding to them? Read, man, read. Stop and soak it in.

It was a yes or no answer. I'm sorry I didn't see it in your 9 paragraphs of speculation of what happened, in your response to my one sentence question.

Can you possible answer a simple question with yes or no answer and nothing else?

IF ( hypothetically speaking) someone was banging your head off the concrete and you thought you were going to die, would you shoot them to save yourself?

If you don't understand the question I'll gladly answer anything you don't understand or explain myself better if need be. Maybe I could even draw you a picture if that will help you?

[ducky]

I wasn't asking for any proof or refering to any incident. It was a simple hypothetical question that no one has answered. It has nothing to do with race or clothing or age or President Obama bowling score.

I was asking IF ( hypothetically) someone was banging your head off the concrete and you were afraid you might die, would use shoot the person to save your own life? Its a simple yes or no question.

Why is it when someone asks you a simple yes or no question, you can't answer it?

The point that I was trying to make in this incident is simply did the shooter have justifiable cause to believe his life was in danger when he shot Martin? How many skittles Martin had, his race, wether he was wearing a hoodie, wether he was armed or unarmed or if the President feels like he could look like his son are all irrelevant!

IMO, we as a society have become so dysfunctional that so many look at all kinds of ancillary things instead of focusing on the fundamental issue, was the shooter justified in shooting Martin at the time he did, becasue he felt his life was in danger? Society has establised laws and a system in place to determine if the shooters actions were justified.

Robert, it really isn't a simple yes or no question. Your hypothetical has no foundation, calls for speculation, and is over broad.

Case in point. Let's say I'm walking home from Walgreens at night and a guy was following me in a car yelling at me asking me what I'm doing there. I first try to ignore him and finally yell back at him to leave me the eff alone. Not very polite and ladylike, but maybe it's been a bad day.

He then gets out and accosts me and tries to grab me by the shoulder when I try to run. I try to defend myself by whatever means possible. I have no idea who this guy is and don't really care. I just want to get away. During the struggle I realize he's got a gun, which takes this to a new level. It's now a fight for my life and I'm doing everything I can to either get the gun from him or make sure he's unable to use it. I lose and he shoots me. Was he justified, Robert? It's a simple yes or no question.

The way the media has behaved in this whole thing is inexcusable. Let's not be like them and let the legal system do its job.

[supermom]

Robert there is no simple answer to your question because A) I don't believe his head was slammed into the concrete.
B) I don't believe that if the man's head had been slammed into the concrete that he would have physical, or mentally been able to retrieve his gun and aim and shoot to kill anyone.

When one of my children was less than a year old, she was toddling about in the car port and bent over to pick up a big rubber ball. unfortunately for her: when she bent over she was top heavy and just could not stop her momemtum. She popped her head onto the concrete sidewalk and gave herself a hairline fracture in her frontal lobe.

The doctors said they were stunned because it was not a hard fall, from a great distance, with much force and she still had baby cartilage there. In short--she was not developed enough physically for a break--yet it happened.

Fast forward to this fat, overweight, 28 year old man being forcefully thrown down on the ground, then while in a fight for his life, while forcefully trying to get away from a kid 100 pounds lighter than him, he gets his head slammed into the concrete and sustains only minor lacerations?

You have not really analyzed that statement if you believe it.

your hypothetical question has no bearing on what I believe happened that day. There is a disconnect between the fact of the injury and the statement of actions given by the person who has the injury.

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert, it really isn't a simple yes or no question. Your hypothetical has no foundation, calls for speculation, and is over broad.

Case in point. Let's say I'm walking home from Walgreens at night and a guy was following me in a car yelling at me asking me what I'm doing there. I first try to ignore him and finally yell back at him to leave me the eff alone. Not very polite and ladylike, but maybe it's been a bad day.

He then gets out and accosts me and tries to grab me by the shoulder when I try to run. I try to defend myself by whatever means possible. I have no idea who this guy is and don't really care. I just want to get away. During the struggle I realize he's got a gun, which takes this to a new level. It's now a fight for my life and I'm doing everything I can to either get the gun from him or make sure he's unable to use it. I lose and he shoots me. Was he justified, Robert? It's a simple yes or no question.

The way the media has behaved in this whole thing is inexcusable. Let's not be like them and let the legal system do its job.

I didn't ask that question. You've changed the scenario! I didn't ask if they were justified or not, I only asked if they would shoot to save themselves or not?

I asked if YOU had the gun and were having your head bounced off the concrete and were afraid you were about to die would you shoot the other person to save yourself?

In the scenario you described, I'd say NO. Its NOT that hard to answer a yes or no question.

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert there is no simple answer to your question because A) I don't believe his head was slammed into the concrete.
B) I don't believe that if the man's head had been slammed into the concrete that he would have physical, or mentally been able to retrieve his gun and aim and shoot to kill anyone.

I see now, you don't understand my question.

I'm NOT asking about what might have happened in the Martin shooting. PLEASE remove any connection to the Martin shooting before answering my question. My question to you ISN'T about the Martin case

So, IF you were having your head bounced off the concrete and you were afraid you might be killed, would you shoot the person doing it to save yourself?

[supermom]

No, you don't understand the point I am making at all! You are being stubborn and refusing to give merit to my point.

If I was attacked and my head was "bounced" or slammed into a concrete sidewalk I would be unable to be scared, or act in any manner to attempt to save my own life.

Its call a TBI.

Look it up.

[ducky]

I see now, you don't understand my question.

I'm NOT asking about what might have happened in the Martin shooting. PLEASE remove any connection to the Martin shooting before answering my question. My question to you ISN'T about the Martin case

So, IF you were having your head bounced off the concrete and you were afraid you might be killed, would you shoot the person doing it to save yourself?

So you're asking that question in a vacuum to me personally having no knowledge of my training or experience in ground fighting or that a gun is meant to be used as a range weapon?

[The Average Joe]

Doesn't it bother anybody that the prosecutor declined to file charges until the media hyped up the racial aspect and political pressure became ENORMOUS. I know I don't want to live in a country where people are prosecuted for political reasons rather than factual ones.

[Robert Giacometti]

So you're asking that question in a vacuum to me personally having no knowledge of my training or experience in ground fighting or that a gun is meant to be used as a range weapon?

I figured you'd be the best person to answer what you would do, rather than someone else. Again, I don't understand why its so hard for people to answer a simple question on what they would do?