62 replies to this topic

[ducky]

It sounds like he came to believe that American activities in Afghanistan were causing more deaths of innocent Afghans--like when the child was run over by the tank. Something along the lines of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" (at least unless there is a greater good) probably weighed heavily on his mind.

What this soldier did was wrong and irresponsible-- his disconnect from the real world made him not foresee that his choice would endanger others. (Not to mention himself--did he really believe it would be all flowers and chocolates when he ran into some Afghans and Taliban??)

However, I will defend a person's right--obligation, actually--to consult their own conscience even in the most difficult times. That's why we all read the dystopia books like 1984, Animal Farm, The Giver, etc. - to remind us that it's not okay to just "go along" with higher authorities! Remember the psych experiments (done at Stanford, I believe) where ordinary people were willing to administer extreme electric shocks to "patients" because a man in a white doctor coat was telling them to do so.

I think this kid was stupid, naïve, idealistic, living in a fantasy/adventure world, and his upbringing left something to be desired. I do not believe he is evil.

 

Of course seeing a child being hit by a vehicle is a terrible thing to see - no matter where it happens it is a tragedy.  How many children were hit by vehicles in the U.S. while he was away?  Is there some allegation that what he saw was done purposely, or was it just an unfortunate accident?  How many children have been strapped with explosives by the Taliban and used as human bombs?

 

I agree with you that people should follow their conscience if they think something is truly wrong or they are asked to do something that is wrong, but it's not sounding like that was the case here.  He was just asked to stand at his post.

[bordercolliefan]

I agree with you that people should follow their conscience if they think something is truly wrong or they are asked to do something that is wrong, but it's not sounding like that was the case here.  He was just asked to stand at his post.

Well, why do you think he abandoned his platoon? Are you saying it was not a decision of his conscience?

I am not arguing with you, I'm just trying to understand whether you believe: (1) he was likely motivated by his conscience, but you disagree with his moral reasoning because in fact the American mission in Afghanistan was morally commendable, or (2)this was not a decision of conscience, he was just lazy or didn't feel like being in the Army anymore. Or...??

[TruthSeeker]

Well, why do you think he abandoned his platoon? Are you saying it was not a decision of his conscience?

I am not arguing with you, I'm just trying to understand whether you believe: (1) he was likely motivated by his conscience, but you disagree with his moral reasoning because in fact the American mission in Afghanistan was morally commendable, or (2)this was not a decision of conscience, he was just lazy or didn't feel like being in the Army anymore. Or...??

 

Some reports from his fellow soldiers are indicating he wanted to join the Taliban and that's why he walked off.

 

Based on his father's islamic prayer at his meeting with the president, and his twitter post saying "I am still working to free all Guantanimo prisoners.  God will repay for the death of every Afghan child, ameen!"  I view him and his son as complete traitors to our country - they are consorting with the enemy and worshiping pure evil with them.

 

Extreme Islamists are evil, they can shove their religious laws of hatred, murder and oppression up their behinds, we owe them NOTHING!

 

Screw that jerk and his dad - OUR God is still repaying for the three thousand+ deaths of every man woman and child who were burned alive or forced to jump to their deaths in the two world trade towers and the pentagon.  

 

It's a major step backward for our country now that our president illegally bypassed congress and acted like a dictator helping and  negotiating with the very same evil people who bombed the towers and pentagon and killed our people.

 

How many Americans are supposed to die for the Taliban cause? How many more people is Obama going to give up - just last week he gave up the name of our top CIA operative in the area. He's a guaranteed dead man now, thanks for that Obama!

 

Do you all realize that now the Taliban will starting kidnapping a lot of soldiers - they're getting a good deal, 5 hardcore murderers freed for 1 soldier - they will start doing this a lot more now that our president is willing to negotiate with them and cave in every time to their demands.

[Chris]

"It sounds like he came to believe that American activities in Afghanistan were causing more deaths of innocent Afghans--like when the child was run over by the tank. Something along the lines of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" (at least unless there is a greater good) probably weighed heavily on his mind."

 

 

You mean like these kids of a peaceful religion throwing grenades....?

 

I'd run over them if they were tossing grenades at me................

 

https://video.search...pe=sbc_dsl&tt=b

 

http://indiatoday.in...r/1/211866.html

[bordercolliefan]

I feel sorry for our soldiers stationed in Afghanistan. From what I've read, quite a few of them came to believe that our mission there was thankless, impossible, and doomed to failure. It began as a necessary and "good" war--to root out terrorists--but then became a morass since the Afghans themselves were corrupt, really had no interest in Western-style democracy, and as time went on vacillated between supporting the Taliban and wanting the Americans to get rid of them.

I have huge respect for our soldiers and feel sorry that their lives have been put on the line for this mess.

We all agree that what Bowe did was irresponsible, immature, and wrong. I think it was a perfect storm of upbringing (isolated and too much "do your own thing"), immature idealism, and (according to the RS article) being put in a unit where morale was in the toilet, making it all the easier for him to conclude that what he was doing had no value.

[ducky]

I feel sorry for our soldiers stationed in Afghanistan. From what I've read, quite a few of them came to believe that our mission there was thankless, impossible, and doomed to failure. It began as a necessary and "good" war--to root out terrorists--but then became a morass since the Afghans themselves were corrupt, really had no interest in Western-style democracy, and as time went on vacillated between supporting the Taliban and wanting the Americans to get rid of them.

I have huge respect for our soldiers and feel sorry that their lives have been put on the line for this mess.

We all agree that what Bowe did was irresponsible, immature, and wrong. I think it was a perfect storm of upbringing (isolated and too much "do your own thing"), immature idealism, and (according to the RS article) being put in a unit where morale was in the toilet, making it all the easier for him to conclude that what he was doing had no value.

 

This is a great post, bordercolliefan.

 

In answer to your other post, based on the information thus far, no, I don't believe he was following his conscience.  I think he was being selfish.

[Homer]

 

This is a great post, bordercolliefan.

 

In answer to your other post, based on the information thus far, no, I don't believe he was following his conscience.  I think he was being selfish.

 

 

 

You posted what i was thinking, Bergdahl was not acting out of conscience, He was acting out based on his own narcissism, He had other options available to him other then going AWOL  Unfortunately his act of extreme narcissism cost at least six good people their lives and led to 5 really evil people being released. At this point it really doesn't matter what his motivations were that led to him going AWOL and getting six other soldiers killed, It only matters that justice is served for his victims and that he accepts the consequences for what he has done.  

[bordercolliefan]

In answer to your other post, based on the information thus far, no, I don't believe he was following his conscience.  I think he was being selfish.

Ah, I see. You may be right.

One other theme one might draw out of the RS article is that his upbringing was very "rugged individualist" -- he was homeschooled and there wasn't much evidence of experience with "team" endeavors--it was all about him against nature, alone against the elements like Bear Grylls. That may be the worst type of individual for the army. It's possible that concepts like team loyalty, having each other's back, and "we're all in this together" were completely foreign to him.

I don't know what more to say. It is a fascinating psychological study, and you can see how this kid joining the army was a train wreck waiting to happen.

[camay2327]

He could have become a Conscientious Objector.  Read below.

 

Conscientious Objection Fact Sheet

 

Conscientious Objection Discharge

 

Everyone has a conscience. Few people wrestle with their conscience as much as members of the military, especially those in combat. Counselors with the GI Rights Hotline talk with military personnel every day who are questioning the morality of the orders they have received or jobs they are expected to perform.

 

If you are one of those people, you came to the right place. You should know that you are not alone. In fact, every year hundreds of military personnel apply for conscientious objector status. Conscientious objectors have been with us as long as there have been wars.

Contents

• Definition of Conscientious Objection
• If You Are Facing Deployment
• The Guide for COs in the Military
• The Written Application
• The Process
• The Decision
• See related regulations and commentary

// go to link below //

 

http://girightshotli...ction-discharge

[bordercolliefan]

Thanks for that info, Camay. Very interesting.

[supermom]

He should die. And as long as he is alive; there will be people watching him. Wondering if he will be a traitor again. I can't believe anyone near him allows him to breathe

[supermom]

He could have become a Conscientious Objector.  Read below.

 

Conscientious Objection Fact Sheet

 

Conscientious Objection Discharge

 

Everyone has a conscience. Few people wrestle with their conscience as much as members of the military, especially those in combat. Counselors with the GI Rights Hotline talk with military personnel every day who are questioning the morality of the orders they have received or jobs they are expected to perform.

 

If you are one of those people, you came to the right place. You should know that you are not alone. In fact, every year hundreds of military personnel apply for conscientious objector status. Conscientious objectors have been with us as long as there have been wars.

Contents

• Definition of Conscientious Objection
• If You Are Facing Deployment
• The Guide for COs in the Military
• The Written Application
• The Process
• The Decision
• See related regulations and commentary

// go to link below //

 

http://girightshotli...ction-discharge

It is against UCMJ to become a conscientious objector once you have been informed what that is and you sign a contract called an enlistment paper. At any point after that, however; you can refuse deployment and after 30 days you would be considered awolee and subject to loss of rank - stripped of uniform and then released as a civilian. However, once you deploy into a "hot zone" if you refuse orders or leave your duty station without authorization or break general order #1 you are subject to full UCMJ action to include charges of treason or desertion. As soon as he dies, I will travel there and dance on his burial site.

[The Average Joe]

Update.  The report on whether he deserted or not has been complete for weeks. The GAO already concluded that Obama acted illegally in releasing the terrorists. Unfortunately, we don't get to find out until AFTER the elections on Tuesday what is in the report. No coincidence there folks.

 

My prediction for after Tuesday? He will face court marshal, gas prices will jump back up, Obama will use executive orders to make illegals de facto legal, the mainstream press will continue to ignore the actions of this administration, and America will continue the slide toward Idiocracy.

 

http://www.washingto...gdahl-surprise/

[Chris]

Well, from what I read in Soldier of Fortune magazine, one of the best news sources for this kind of stuff, he was a turd of a soldier and walked off base to be with the enemy.......   In WW2 they shoot you for that within ten days..........!   Under Obummer you are a hero and the story is buried for doing this, abandoning your unit....  This leaves our behinds open as we should never negotiate with the enemy, we only kill them, no words, no prisoners exchanged, even if it is my own son.....!      Also when your mom wears a muslim head scarf and your Dad learns Pashtu and grows a jihadi  beard for favor to these turds on Youtube that makes your family all the more a scumbag and a traitor.........!    Shoot all three of them I say.......!   Sorry if that is harsh but that is the way this war will go in the end, his whole family is an embarrassment to those of us who have relatives buried in Europe and the South Pacific from WW2 like I do......!   Way more better soldiers dead and buried from this war you will never know their names.......!  So sad we know this traitors name, and all the work of this administration, this is who they think are heroes.......!  Sad the left keeps this turd of an American in the news and forgets the real heroes.....!   Chris

[The Average Joe]

So now Bergdahl will be tried for desertion. Great. We get a deserter in trade for 5 terrorist leaders. WTG Obama. So let's see. Before the trade, Bergdahl was a prisoner and 5 terrorists were in prison. Now Bergdahl will be in jail, and 5 terrorists will be free. Remember all the bs that surrounded this? Overview at the link.  Obama, making amateur hour a 24/7 occupation.

 

 

http://townhall.com/...policy-n1948873