71 replies to this topic

[Dave Burrell]

Article in yesterdays Telegraph:

Power struggle becomes public
City tries to extinguish fight between chief and firefighters’ union

By: Raheem Hosseini
Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:52 PM PDT

The effort to oust Folsom Fire Chief Eric Dutton five months before he retires has forced city and department officials to address what was once a private matter in a public forum.

With Local 522, the union representing the Folsom Fire Department, citing leadership issues as the primary reason for removing the fire chief and Dutton suggesting other motivations, the city finds itself straddling the line somewhere in between.

"Eric Dutton has been a dedicated city employee for many, many years and continues to be," said Mayor Andy Morin. "Through all the dissatisfaction ... every one of our firefighters continues to give everything they got to the department."

That "dissatisfaction" has been apparent for a couple of years, says Morin. "We know there was a high level of dissatisfaction on a number of issues."

Some of those issues are too sensitive to name, he adds, though union president Brian Rice has no problem going down the list of grievances.

"My issue with Chief Dutton ... is solely leadership," he told the Telegraph. Rice has cited issues like a high turnover rate, slow emergency response times and money wasted on ineffective studies and misguided equipment purchases.

Dutton said there has been "various unsubstantiated accusations about things" and "little incidents of disagreements for years."

The "ineffective study" cited by the union is a standards of cover study presented in March by Citygate Associates LLC. Its findings helped lead to the decision that another fire station is needed in the Empire Ranch area, something the department is currently pursuing.

Dutton said the $42,000 spent on that study "was a mere pittance and a very good investment."

At the beginning of 1998 when the department did its first ever city service plan, Dutton says it was hard to determine what was going to happen in Empire Ranch.

As for other complaints, Dutton says the department's recently concluded budget negotiations with the city netted a $2.6 million increase to $15.3 million, much of which will go to salary and benefits.

A list of department needs is submitted with the budget in order that fire personnel can make recommendations, says Dutton. Whatever isn't covered must be pursued through state and federal grants, like the recently acquired water rescue boat, or else it must wait until the next fiscal year.

"It's really, really expensive stuff," Dutton said of the equipment. "They're just nitpicking and there has to be some reason to it."

As for what it is, Dutton says his ascent to chief while other contemporaries have remained in current capacities may have rubbed some the wrong way.

Another reason that's been suggested is the union is trying to leverage its way into the Sacramento Metropolitan Fire District.

Morin says there might be some truth to the rumors, but the city's focus has to be addressing the complaints without being distracted by "conspiracy theories."

"For me, that's speculative. I don't get a strong feeling one way or another," said Morin.

"That is not on the table right now," Rice stressed. But a potential Sac Metro merger "brings out interesting possibilities and benefits that people would be (foolish) not to consider."

"There are certainly differences (between the city and Sac Metro)," Dutton said.

The latter currently pays a bit more with comparable benefits, he says, but an access to greater resources isn't wholly accurate. "We function like one big fire department in this county already," he said. In fact, Dutton says the rescue boat the department recently acquired for its water rescue program will probably be loaned out on occasion to Sac Metro. "Everybody shares."

Asked his position on a possible merger, Dutton replied, "We want our own fire department. There is no other position to take."

The chief says the autonomy and flexibility the department would trade away to merge with the fire district wouldn't be worth the limited benefits, drawing comparisons to Citrus Heights and Elk Grove, which have started their own police departments rather than continue accepting service from the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office.

http://www.folsomtel.../02struggle.txt

[truth.com]

Being a public servant is different, especially if you work in front-line public service (as opposed to behind the scenes). Some people are devoted to their careers and to the quality of the service they provide. It is difficult to be managed by people who have no to little experience with the public service aspect of the job. Maybe the library staff, for instance, feel committed to protecting the best interest of the public.
Sounds like, from this thread, both the fire and the library employees tried going through channels first, tried to work within the system to promote beneficial changes, tried to make their voices heard. I find it near impossible to believe that either the fire or library staff would risk their job security to challenge the status quo just for the sake of causing disruption.

Being a public servant is different, especially if you work in front-line public service (as opposed to behind the scenes). Some people are devoted to their careers and to the quality of the service they provide. It is difficult to be managed by people who have no to little experience with the public service aspect of the job. Maybe the library staff, for instance, feel committed to protecting the best interest of the public.
Sounds like, from this thread, both the fire and the library employees tried going through channels first, tried to work within the system to promote beneficial changes, tried to make their voices heard. I find it near impossible to believe that either the fire or library staff would risk their job security to challenge the status quo just for the sake of causing disruption.

[Robert Giacometti]

Article in yesterdays Telegraph:

Power struggle becomes public
City tries to extinguish fight between chief and firefighters’ union

By: Raheem Hosseini
Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:52 PM PDT

The effort to oust Folsom Fire Chief Eric Dutton five months before he retires has forced city and department officials to address what was once a private matter in a public forum.

With Local 522, the union representing the Folsom Fire Department, citing leadership issues as the primary reason for removing the fire chief and Dutton suggesting other motivations, the city finds itself straddling the line somewhere in between.

"Eric Dutton has been a dedicated city employee for many, many years and continues to be," said Mayor Andy Morin. "Through all the dissatisfaction ... every one of our firefighters continues to give everything they got to the department."

That "dissatisfaction" has been apparent for a couple of years, says Morin. "We know there was a high level of dissatisfaction on a number of issues."

Some of those issues are too sensitive to name, he adds, though union president Brian Rice has no problem going down the list of grievances.

"My issue with Chief Dutton ... is solely leadership," he told the Telegraph. Rice has cited issues like a high turnover rate, slow emergency response times and money wasted on ineffective studies and misguided equipment purchases.

Dutton said there has been "various unsubstantiated accusations about things" and "little incidents of disagreements for years."

The "ineffective study" cited by the union is a standards of cover study presented in March by Citygate Associates LLC. Its findings helped lead to the decision that another fire station is needed in the Empire Ranch area, something the department is currently pursuing.

Dutton said the $42,000 spent on that study "was a mere pittance and a very good investment."

At the beginning of 1998 when the department did its first ever city service plan, Dutton says it was hard to determine what was going to happen in Empire Ranch.

As for other complaints, Dutton says the department's recently concluded budget negotiations with the city netted a $2.6 million increase to $15.3 million, much of which will go to salary and benefits.

A list of department needs is submitted with the budget in order that fire personnel can make recommendations, says Dutton. Whatever isn't covered must be pursued through state and federal grants, like the recently acquired water rescue boat, or else it must wait until the next fiscal year.

"It's really, really expensive stuff," Dutton said of the equipment. "They're just nitpicking and there has to be some reason to it."

As for what it is, Dutton says his ascent to chief while other contemporaries have remained in current capacities may have rubbed some the wrong way.

Another reason that's been suggested is the union is trying to leverage its way into the Sacramento Metropolitan Fire District.

Morin says there might be some truth to the rumors, but the city's focus has to be addressing the complaints without being distracted by "conspiracy theories."

"For me, that's speculative. I don't get a strong feeling one way or another," said Morin.

"That is not on the table right now," Rice stressed. But a potential Sac Metro merger "brings out interesting possibilities and benefits that people would be (foolish) not to consider."

"There are certainly differences (between the city and Sac Metro)," Dutton said.

The latter currently pays a bit more with comparable benefits, he says, but an access to greater resources isn't wholly accurate. "We function like one big fire department in this county already," he said. In fact, Dutton says the rescue boat the department recently acquired for its water rescue program will probably be loaned out on occasion to Sac Metro. "Everybody shares."

Asked his position on a possible merger, Dutton replied, "We want our own fire department. There is no other position to take."

The chief says the autonomy and flexibility the department would trade away to merge with the fire district wouldn't be worth the limited benefits, drawing comparisons to Citrus Heights and Elk Grove, which have started their own police departments rather than continue accepting service from the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office.

http://www.folsomtel.../02struggle.txt

Interesting!

I like Mayor Andy, I think he is a geniune nice person, does good things in community and I believe he is trying to do what is right for the city. I voted for Andy in the last election.

I like Eric Dutton, he is always friendly & polite with me. He generally jokes around and returns phone calls promptly. However, I don't work for him, so I don't know about his management abilities.

As I recall the discussions regarding the building the two new fire stations I remember it being said that by building these two new stations it would "Improve response times and Eliminate the need to build that additional station" ( Naturally, I'm always skeptical when I hear Government claim by spending millions of dollars they are going to save tax dollars).

Now I'm angry and frustrated because the station that was built was designed incorrectly and the equipment that was supposed to be housed there can't be!

WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT? Why aren't the City Council members upset and demanding answers about the claims of " Improving response times and eliminating the need for another station"....were wrong!

No One on the council seems to care that these mistakes are wasting OUR tax dollars! Why can't council hold those accountable for their performance or lack of it? I gotta believe if anyone of the council members were paying for these issues out of their own pockets they be screaming and refusing to do so.....yet since its tax dollars....they want everyone to hold hands and sing....cum-by-aye!

I don't blame the City employees one bit..... they see first hand the hypocracy and BS on a day to day basis and they know their performance is being judged on a different standard than those who are judging them!

Mayor Andy, contacted council member Jeff Starskey seeking to get his support to get rid of the City Manger. Then after she resigns and he not only votes to give her a $140,000 no bid consulting contract for work she hasn't preformed before....then he tells us he had to " plead with her to take the contract"

Kerri writes an article in the paper praising the former city mangers preformance....citing the completion of the new Fire Stations ( including the one that designed incorrectly) as an accomplishment. Kerri has also indicated she was highly respected by staff, yet knowing full well that there were major dissatisfaction amongst departments and staff.

Are there any council members who have any integrity left?

[truth.com]

As the article in the Telegraph and the Bee pointed out, the Chief seems to want the public to believe that only a handfull of employees are behind the issues now being brought out to the public. There is an easy way to put an end to this opinion, take a confidential vote of no confidence. Let the numbers speak for themselves. Then we citizens would know the truth. And if it comes out in favor of the Chief, let the union stand down. But if it comes out that the Chief really is behind all of these terrible things, and the employees have "no confidence" in his leadership, then have him step down for the good of the city. Seems simple enough. I want to know that the people that are here to save my family are thinking about that, not how unhappy they are because our city leaders can not make a right decision. And to Roberts post, you bring up the fact that we get rid of a city manager, only to give her a "no bid" contract to keep her. This has happened in the past in this city with golden handshakes and such. It has been my conclusion that if you want to keep someone from telling all, give them a big check and all is well. Lets look at the metro section of the Bee where the brother of the metro fire service guy was fired for giving his brother "no bid" contracts to put roofs on fire stations. Let's follow that lead and do the right thing? Just a thought!!!

[Kerri Howell]

As is often the case Robert, you have taken little tid bits of what is factual, a whole bunch of misinformation that is not factual (even though much of the misinformation has already been explained to you either on this website or in personal emails that I sent you) and morphed it into a complete misrepresentation of the truth - speaking of integrity - or lack thereof. I stand by my comments in the paper, and what I have explained or clarified on this website. How dare you accuse me of a lack of integrity - get the facts right - for a change, before you go spouting off!

[Robert Giacometti]

As is often the case Robert, you have taken little tid bits of what is factual, a whole bunch of misinformation that is not factual (even though much of the misinformation has already been explained to you either on this website or in personal emails that I sent you) and morphed it into a complete misrepresentation of the truth - speaking of integrity - or lack thereof. I stand by my comments in the paper, and what I have explained or clarified on this website. How dare you accuse me of a lack of integrity - get the facts right - for a change, before you go spouting off!

You are dam right I'm challenging your integrity!

Kerri, tell us where I am misrepresenting something?

Did the Library Staff present a petition to the council regarding concerns about management? How long have they had these concerns and how long have you known about them?

Aren't the Fireman upset about the Management? Can the fire equipment that was supposed to be housed in the new fire station fit in or not? Who was/is responsible for this?

Why don't you tell the citizens the real reason why Mr. Rudolph ( former city attorney) left the city and why did he leave so quickly?

Did you not write an article in the Sac Bee neighbors section listing an accomplishment of the former city manager of building 2 new fire stations all along knowing one was designed incorrectly?

Did you NOT submit an article under the post of City manager Leaving ( post #25 to be exact) indicating the city manager was " widely respected" at city hall? By who? The Library staff? The Fireman? I have heard from countless staff, current & former, thanking me for speaking out about the consulting contract for the former City Manager. I have YET to find ONE who shares your opinion.

How many years have I been asking you "Who was responsible for making sure we were in compliance regarding affordable housing when the DA's where reopened in the late 90's"? Remember, as a city council person your comments at meetings are taped and if I you want maybe we can post those meetings about affordable housing and compare your comments then....to your recent ones. Its been quite interesting watching this response evolve.

I think doing this would pretty much answer anyone's doubt about my questioning your integrity!

I do owe Mr. King & Mr. Miklos an apology for questioning their integrity....regarding the issue of the City manager leaving. They did NOT vote for the consulting contract for the former City Manager as they weren't there that night the vote was taken. I have NOT heard either one make a comment supporting this. ( I kinda suspect we won't). My last sentence in my previous post should have excluded both of them and I am sorry that I did not do that and I do want to clarify my comments.

The citizens of Folsom are owed the Truth!

Did a majority of the city council reach a decision that it was time to move in a new direction regarding the city manager? Was/is there an agreement in place indicating that if the City Manager would leave they would get some sort of compensation..... ie " consulting contract"? Is there any agreement in place limiting what council members can say about the former city manager?

I want the truth!

[Gwyneth]

As the article in the Telegraph and the Bee pointed out, the Chief seems to want the public to believe that only a handfull of employees are behind the issues now being brought out to the public.

This seems to be the same thing that happened with the library situation. The management seems to have had some success convincing people that only a couple of employees are responsible for the discontent, despite the fact that every career employee (who is not exempt) has signed a statement or statements at some point in the last year testifying to their dissatisfaction with library organization and the failure of existing leadership.

There is an easy way to put an end to this opinion, take a confidential vote of no confidence. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Wish that could be done with the library as well. But who would initiate such a vote? Certainly not the management. There is nothing worse than working in an environment where no one has confidence in the leadership, where the leadership in place is more injurious than no leadership at all. Well, maybe not having a job would be worse. Interesting to note that any employee daring to speak the truth in either the Fire Dept. or the library is possibly putting their job on the line. That's an indication how serious the complaints are, and the city should take heed.

[Gwyneth]

Did the Library Staff present a petition to the council regarding concerns about management? How long have they had these concerns and how long have you known about them?

In all fairness to Vice Mayor Howell and the other councilmembers, they probably had no idea there were serious problems at the library until they received the staff petition last month. City management knew, however, as early as fall last year. The two-fold administrative strategy was to try to placate, or, alternatively, intimidate the staff. There were definite reprisals against individual employees. The staff saw through all of this, understood that no meaningful changes were being made, and were dismayed to realize that things were actually getting worse. After a number of efforts to go through channels, staff finally took the rather extreme action of submitting the petition to the Mayor and the council.

The library Commission became involved around the same time the petition came to light. The Commission called a special meeting on a Friday night, specifically to address the library leadership issue, and encouraged staff to attend. Staff did attend, as well as former staff and interested members of the public, including Friends of the Library supporters. It was based on the "testimony" of attendees at that special meeting that the Commission voted five to one to submit a recommendation to the Mayor and the council. This recommendation, presented to council at the final hearing for FY 06/07, requested that the budget be revised to eliminate a proposed additional library supervisor position and to reinstate instead the position of library director that has been vacant for almost three years.

Council's reaction was to decline to micromanage departmental staffing patterns, but to direct the Commission and city "staff" to come up with a plan that would incorporate the recommendations regarding professional leadership for the library. "Staff" does not refer to library employees, but rather to upper-level administration. The library commission met July 3 despite the holiday, which prevented many people from attending, and the next regularly scheduled meeting for August has apparently been cancelled. One wonders what role the commission plays in monitoring programs and services at the library, and whether anyone with true concern or experience in library matters has any meaningful involvement in its future at this point.

Let's hope that the Mayor, Vice Mayor Howell, the other councilmembers, and interim city management understand that the concerns of the library staff and the citizens are legitimate, widespread, and sincere. To do this, they will have to work hard to see clearly through the thick spin projected by people with a vested interest in defending the past, and carefully weigh motivations. Let's hope they take this opportunity to forget the past, move forward, and decide on the right action to provide the best possible future library direction and services to the Folsom community.

[daveman]

How long have they had these concerns and how long have you known about them?

Because of all the goings on at the library I have gotten to know a few of the employees better and just got off the phone with one. This employee had made contact with Kerri Howell in January explaining that 13 staff members had written letters to Evert Palmer the Director of Administrative Services (at his request) of issues that were present in the library. Although I have yet to read the letters or the petition it just seems more and more that the staff has tried to take on this issue, prior to the petition. It also seems that the library, fire department heads want to make it out to be a few employees that are disgruntled, when it may just be one of the cities precious executive manager.

[truth.com]

Alexa, get off the soap box and learn if you are going to have an opinion, make sure it is yours and not your neighbors. Though your neighbor may have once worked for our beloved city, he has chosen to leave for what ever reasons. Now does this make him an expert on current issues? does he really know all the facts? do you? be a good investigator. talk to people that work there now and can give you the straight story. then voice your "educated" opinion. my neighbor says that all of our council members are crooks and liars. you dont hear me on hear spouting that. when I investigate and find this to be true, then i may post an opinion. since i do not know this to be true, even though i trust my neighbor, i dont take his word for this. rent the movie "tommy boy". there is a quote you may want to pay attention to. something about how i could stick my head up a cows arse to check out my steak, but i choose to let the butcher tell me what is the best. sounds like your neighbor may not be as much of an expert as you give him credit for? now thats my opinion!!

[Robert Giacometti]

Because of all the goings on at the library I have gotten to know a few of the employees better and just got off the phone with one. This employee had made contact with Kerri Howell in January explaining that 13 staff members had written letters to Evert Palmer the Director of Administrative Services (at his request) of issues that were present in the library. Although I have yet to read the letters or the petition it just seems more and more that the staff has tried to take on this issue, prior to the petition. It also seems that the library, fire department heads want to make it out to be a few employees that are disgruntled, when it may just be one of the cities precious executive manager.

Interesting.

We have had a significant number department managers leave and if you ask around and talk to people who know more than what is being said.....you sure get different reasons why they left and it sure isn't what some council person keeps telling us.

Now we have 2 separate departments unhappy with the leadership of their departments and recognition that a council member was made aware of a situation.

Who was in charge of all this?

Could it be the same person who recently left and was given a $140,000 consulting contract for something they had NOT done before, without getting any bids. Didn't they also get another contract to provide consulting services for the Budget process? How much was that for?

The more one looks into this whole charade....the clearer the picture becomes.

[tallon]

Because of all the goings on at the library I have gotten to know a few of the employees better and just got off the phone with one. This employee had made contact with Kerri Howell in January explaining that 13 staff members had written letters to Evert Palmer the Director of Administrative Services (at his request) of issues that were present in the library. Although I have yet to read the letters or the petition it just seems more and more that the staff has tried to take on this issue, prior to the petition. It also seems that the library, fire department heads want to make it out to be a few employees that are disgruntled, when it may just be one of the cities precious executive manager.

That's funny. After reading your post I remembered an email I sent to the Mayor and the city council on May 16th last year. I had forgotten about this and checked my email account to see if I had the message. I did, hence the reason I had the exact date. I was in the library at some point in time and had overheard staff members speaking about the library director being a man and that he was unqualified, this disturbed me so I sent an email. At the time I did not know who this person was but I believe it to be the Evert Palmer, that is mentioned in some of the post. I will post my email. The only response I received was from Eric King that said the acting director of the Library is a woman, and just chalked it up to a misunderstanding of what I was overhearing. I forgot about since it seemed unimportant, but with everything going on it worries me that no one acted. I guess the saying is true, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Or is it the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. Oh well.



Dear Esteemed Mayor and Council Members,

I am new to the area, and by new I have lived here for
about two years now, yet I am not very active in our
community. On occasion I will visit the local library
to read the newspaper or browse the shelves. I grew
up being a listener, reader and learner so I will tell
you what I have learned. I am pleased to report that
the staff are wonderful people and that they truly
care how the library is ran. They probably are not
aware of who I am but I do not mind that as I like to
stay quite and just enjoy life but something bothered
me recently.

While looking at the free magazines I happened to
overhear some of the staff discussing their director
which was not uncommon, but the ladies were talking
about how he ( I am not sure of the name as I did not
catch it), was unfit for the job as he had zero
library experience. Well to me this seemed quite
wrong that the director of the library had zero
experience. The ladies went on to talk about more and
I am sure I could relate more to you, but I will not.
I am sure they only speak of him in such a manner
because they want to see the library ran to its
fullest potential, that is how the discussion sounded.

I have less confidence in this City knowing that the
person who is in charge of the Library has zero
experience in what he is actually in charge of.
Now I am not the members of the Council nor am I the
Mayor, yet I feel that this should be questioned.
Most Libraries are ran by someone that at least holds a
Masters in Library Science, for obvious reasons, they
should know what they are doing. I do hope that this
is not a ploy to decrease spending or secure that the
Library gets built (mind you I am a supporter of the
new library), the library is currently staffed with
confident respectful people, but to have the highest
ranking staff member lack any real library experience
is a shame to the city and the staff that actually run
the library. I do not see much coming from this email
I would like to just release some frustration toward
yet another potential bureaucratic decision that
overlooked what was good for the sake of the
community.

This was sent to city council members and the mayor on may 16, 2005.

[Gwyneth]

Now we have 2 separate departments unhappy with the leadership of their departments ...
Who was in charge of all this?

Who made the decision not to replace the library director three years ago when the previous guy left? Does anyone even remember his name? He lasted barely a year, left suddenly under questionnable circumstances in fall 2003.

It's been suggested the reason the city decided not to replace the director at that time was because it got burned with the previous guy. Was he really so bad, or was it the waste of the hefty fees the city paid a head-hunting firm (two different times to the tune of around $20,000 (?) a pop), only to end up with no director and a fiasco instead?

Whatever the reasons, instead of hiring a new director, the city put the library under the jurisdiction of the administrative services director, and promoted someone from inhouse to be manager without recruiting or interviewing for the position. This person had little experience outside the Folsom library, and had just recently received her librarian degree through distance learning. What does this say about the value the administration places on professional knowledge and experience? Yet this person's salary doubled in a three year period so that she is now making substantially more than many library directors in similar jobs.

Who knows how much the former city manager influenced these decisions? If she was not personally responsible, at least one of her assistant city managers and the administrative services director were directly involved. The former has walked off with another substantial chunk of change in his departure from service to Folsom, and the latter has been recently been appointed to the former's previous job.

Why should it be a surprise that this group places little importance on whether the people running the library have appropriate experience, skills, education, or training? Other posts here have described how the former city manager scored the highest salary in the region for equivalent positions despite having no previous experience or training. Likewise the administrative services director has no college degree, yet also rakes in six figures. Can we assume his recent promotion to asst. city manager included a raise?

What exactly are the city's priorities or criteria for rewarding employees? What is the relationship between compensation and the value of service to the community? No one wants the situations at the library or the fire dept. to reflect badly upon the city, but if we don't have honesty and values, we have nothing.

[truth.com]

Gwyneth:

How right you are in your comments about what is going on in the city. You would be amazed at what top jobs were offered to a friend and not put out for bid. Such as martha's new job with the new bridge. Lets see, from asst. city attorney to city manager to bridge expert. And where did all the training and experience come from? This is where the blank space goes!! And as far as Roberts comments goes, I am not sure you take half truths and facts and come to your own conclusions as Kerry Howell would like the people to believe. Everything thing you have posted on here I have checked on and have found is factual. Kerry would like us to believe otherwise, but you keep on telling the truth. This is the only way the public will stay informed. Then, only the public can demand change, if they will get off their butt and do it. When is Kerry up for re-election anyhow? To many people in this town are so busy that they just do not care any more. That is why our city can be run into the ground and we are forced to use a forum like this to attempt change. I believe that the only way to get this message out is for the people to call city hall and other council members who have ethics, and demand change. If this does not work, contact the media. The Bee, the Telegraph, and the local news. If enough people ask for an investigation, we may get someones attention. But if we sit back and just type away, we will get nothing. Only using this form is like "peeing into the wind". And our city knows this. That is why nothing has happened with the library and the fire chief. Remember when the most qualified person received the job? That does not happen here. It is a popularity contest and who you know. Time for change. And yes, I have friends at the fire department who I have talked to about the chief issue. I found out that there are several employees that have been to the city manager and council with the issue posted, and many more. SPEAK OUT NOW!!! You have our attention so give it up. Let your voices be heard. Now thats my opinion.

[Terry]

Lets SPEAK OUT NOW!!! You have our attention so give it up. Let your voices be heard. Now thats my opinion.

I would expect to see several of the posters here to be on the ballot for the fall's election for vacant City Council seats since there seem to be so many interested in really making changes and making their voices heard.