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In response to Ms. Holderness, I guess you can overlook that the "replacement" fields are clear across town. As far as the new field the city is building a block away, where exactly is that and will it be lit and have restroom facilities? I also notice that you never call the field by its proper name, Farley Memorial Stadium just like the scoreboard reads. I don't think when a community dedicates a field to a slain veteran that it should be so easily undone, so your analogy to the parks dedicated in the names of others really isn't appropriate since the entire park is not named after Marshall Farley.
My comment about the space in the library being reduced comes directly from a newspaper article in the Bee:
"To preserve open space, architects compressed the adult and children's wings to prevent them from sticking out too far into the park, Ross said."
If the fire station site was so substandard, then why weren't there any protests then? There was a sign out front for over a year. There certainly wasn't any controversy. Another quote from a newspaper article referring to the fire stations site circa 11/7/01:
"It's a wonderful site and will indeed complete the municipal complex of the city." Also, "The four acre site chosen by the council, the current site of the fire station on Natoma Street, was also the unanimous preferred alternative of the commission."
I don't know why the bond didn't pass although I do think it was close. Perhaps if this idea of building in the park were threatened, then maybe it would have.
I don't think we should be slamming members of a service organization because they oppose this site. Ironically I found my copy of the first issue of the Friends of the Folsom Library from 1993 the other day in which the Friends were thanking the Lions Club for their generous $10,000 donation.
The Lions have been good to this community and I think when we dedicate something like a park in their name it should have more endurance and commitment than a Britney Spears marriage.
The Folsom City Library
Started by
Nina Phillips
, Feb 13 2004 05:52 AM
380 replies to this topic
#47
Linda Holderness
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Posted 24 February 2004 - 04:32 PM
Karen: Thank you for your response.
First, I have never, ever slammed the Lions Club, nor would I. In another posting (under "recall," I believe), I complimented them. They have been a fabulous and contributing community citizen – as they were in my childhood home clear across the country. I have nothing but respect for the Lions Club. But that doesn't translate into giving them control over a park that is named for them. And, of course, I don't agree with some members' stand on this library issue or their recall effort.
When I referred to the park names in my previous post, I meant park names. No one is suggesting that Folsom City Lions Park be un-named.
I believe the Lions Club will ultimately be a proud asset to our new libraries.
The quote in the Bee, unfortunately, was misleading. The wings were "compressed" in length, but the square-footage was compensated for by widening them. It was an issue of design, not size.
I was not on the Library Commission when the fire station site was selected, but I recall the four acres were not entirely usable or were so oddly shaped as to make a library design difficult.
As I recall, the bond received something like 59 percent, but 67 percent was needed. I thought it was a pretty good endorsement for a library, but it wasn't enough. The most common complaint I heard was that the fire station building was being wasted.
Your energy and efforts and obvious passion for this community are much appreciated. They give us all a public forum to work out this issue, and others, and that is a good thing. We're all better off for that in the end.
First, I have never, ever slammed the Lions Club, nor would I. In another posting (under "recall," I believe), I complimented them. They have been a fabulous and contributing community citizen – as they were in my childhood home clear across the country. I have nothing but respect for the Lions Club. But that doesn't translate into giving them control over a park that is named for them. And, of course, I don't agree with some members' stand on this library issue or their recall effort.
When I referred to the park names in my previous post, I meant park names. No one is suggesting that Folsom City Lions Park be un-named.
I believe the Lions Club will ultimately be a proud asset to our new libraries.
The quote in the Bee, unfortunately, was misleading. The wings were "compressed" in length, but the square-footage was compensated for by widening them. It was an issue of design, not size.
I was not on the Library Commission when the fire station site was selected, but I recall the four acres were not entirely usable or were so oddly shaped as to make a library design difficult.
As I recall, the bond received something like 59 percent, but 67 percent was needed. I thought it was a pretty good endorsement for a library, but it wasn't enough. The most common complaint I heard was that the fire station building was being wasted.
Your energy and efforts and obvious passion for this community are much appreciated. They give us all a public forum to work out this issue, and others, and that is a good thing. We're all better off for that in the end.
#48
Candy Apple
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Posted 24 February 2004 - 04:46 PM
Thank you again Linda. As usual you address facts in calm polite manner. I wonder how anyone who has lived here for a long time could be so mis-informed about Ernie Sheldon and the true facts?
#49
parklady
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Posted 25 February 2004 - 08:04 PM
Thanks again to Linda for a thorough and rational summary of all of this. We should all get behind joint use libraries in these economic times for Folsom as well as for all of Sacramento County. It's a magnificent, cost effective and logical pairing - schools and libraries working together to meet the educational needs of the community.
#50
Cincinnatus
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 08:12 AM
Stephen,
You asked for a history of the library site. Here it is (any mistakes are my own, I did this from my memory which has been known to fail me):
About 10 years ago (1994) the City of Folsom, needed a library. Because funds were not available at the time, the Friends of the Folsom Library and other Folsom residents found a 7,000 sq ft fire station to TEMPORARILY house the library so funds could be made available to build a new library. The city paid for operations and Folsom had a library. When residents helped to remodel and repaint that building the intent was always that the library would be a temporary site.
As the millenium came, the population of grew and the demographic changed. It was clear that the 7,000 sq ft. library was not going to meet the needs of the community. Besides the size, the building, flooded during hard rains requiring sand bags to be placed around the entrance, the staff area consists of a utility sink a bathroom and a tight work space, the upper level of the library is not ADA compliant and children are turned away from reading time because there is not enough room. Despite all of this the library quickly became one of the most used amenities in the City and is currently one of the most used libraries in Sacramento County.
In 2000, California residents passed Prop 14 a library construction and remodel bond. Cities that met "very specific" requirements were able to apply for bond money. The City determined that it would apply for the bond and hired a consultant to write a needs assessment (required for the bond application). The needs assessment revealed that with the population of Folsom the city would eventually require a 30,000 sq. ft. library with some specific functions that the current library does not have.
Also, as part of the bond process the Library Commission and City Staff was tasked with assessing possible locations. City Staff presented the commission with approximately 20 sites in public commission meeting at the Library and at City Council Chambers. During these meetings the pros and cons of all sites were presented and public input was encourages. Frankly, the people that showed up to voice their opinions were the same faces we have seen supporting the library from day one. The friends of the Folsom Library. Through this process and several presentations the Commission narrowed the sites down to 4 possibilities then to 2. Keep in mind that the criteria used to determine the sites was based on the bond requirements. In reality, one site that may have been a great location may not be chosen because it is too far from schools or does not provide an effective level of visibility. It would be a waste of time to choose a site that would result in a failed bond submittal.
In the end the site that was recommended by the Library Commission was the fire station next to City Hall. Although the property would not allow the architectural creativity that other sites allowed (because it needed to fit in with the neighboring buildings) it was the best choice to obtain the bond funds. The Commission approved the site and the bond application was prepared. Throughout this process surveys were performed to determine the support for a library, about 80% of the residents felt that the city needed a new library and they would support it financially.
The one problem in the process was the city had to come up with approximately 40% of the money for the library (the bond provided 60%). Because the firestation is in a redevelopment district, some of the 40% would come from the property itself. The then city budget director felt that a bond would raise the difference. The bond would cost each household about $25 (the cost of two books) a year for a period of time (15 years I think). Because the school construction bond was up for vote a second time the city determined to wait until the next opportunity to have a city wide proposition vote on the library bond. Meanwhile, the first wave of applications for Prop 14 were submitted. The city could not send an application until it showed it could come up with the 40% match. The vote took place (requiring 66% of the vote) and fell just short as 61% voted for the library bond. The Library Commission and the City Council faced a turning point...... I'll continue later....
You asked for a history of the library site. Here it is (any mistakes are my own, I did this from my memory which has been known to fail me):
About 10 years ago (1994) the City of Folsom, needed a library. Because funds were not available at the time, the Friends of the Folsom Library and other Folsom residents found a 7,000 sq ft fire station to TEMPORARILY house the library so funds could be made available to build a new library. The city paid for operations and Folsom had a library. When residents helped to remodel and repaint that building the intent was always that the library would be a temporary site.
As the millenium came, the population of grew and the demographic changed. It was clear that the 7,000 sq ft. library was not going to meet the needs of the community. Besides the size, the building, flooded during hard rains requiring sand bags to be placed around the entrance, the staff area consists of a utility sink a bathroom and a tight work space, the upper level of the library is not ADA compliant and children are turned away from reading time because there is not enough room. Despite all of this the library quickly became one of the most used amenities in the City and is currently one of the most used libraries in Sacramento County.
In 2000, California residents passed Prop 14 a library construction and remodel bond. Cities that met "very specific" requirements were able to apply for bond money. The City determined that it would apply for the bond and hired a consultant to write a needs assessment (required for the bond application). The needs assessment revealed that with the population of Folsom the city would eventually require a 30,000 sq. ft. library with some specific functions that the current library does not have.
Also, as part of the bond process the Library Commission and City Staff was tasked with assessing possible locations. City Staff presented the commission with approximately 20 sites in public commission meeting at the Library and at City Council Chambers. During these meetings the pros and cons of all sites were presented and public input was encourages. Frankly, the people that showed up to voice their opinions were the same faces we have seen supporting the library from day one. The friends of the Folsom Library. Through this process and several presentations the Commission narrowed the sites down to 4 possibilities then to 2. Keep in mind that the criteria used to determine the sites was based on the bond requirements. In reality, one site that may have been a great location may not be chosen because it is too far from schools or does not provide an effective level of visibility. It would be a waste of time to choose a site that would result in a failed bond submittal.
In the end the site that was recommended by the Library Commission was the fire station next to City Hall. Although the property would not allow the architectural creativity that other sites allowed (because it needed to fit in with the neighboring buildings) it was the best choice to obtain the bond funds. The Commission approved the site and the bond application was prepared. Throughout this process surveys were performed to determine the support for a library, about 80% of the residents felt that the city needed a new library and they would support it financially.
The one problem in the process was the city had to come up with approximately 40% of the money for the library (the bond provided 60%). Because the firestation is in a redevelopment district, some of the 40% would come from the property itself. The then city budget director felt that a bond would raise the difference. The bond would cost each household about $25 (the cost of two books) a year for a period of time (15 years I think). Because the school construction bond was up for vote a second time the city determined to wait until the next opportunity to have a city wide proposition vote on the library bond. Meanwhile, the first wave of applications for Prop 14 were submitted. The city could not send an application until it showed it could come up with the 40% match. The vote took place (requiring 66% of the vote) and fell just short as 61% voted for the library bond. The Library Commission and the City Council faced a turning point...... I'll continue later....
#51
camay2327
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 08:35 AM
Cincinnatus, thanks for your input. I will wait for the rest.
A VETERAN
Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life".
That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
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#52
Cincinnatus
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 09:02 AM
Linda thanks for your words. I concur.
It is interesting that when we finally have the opportunity to do something right there is so much opposition. People surrounding the park say that those who are in "the inner circle" forced a library on them. None of those opposed to the current site were in any of the meetings when the 20 park sites were discussed initially. The opportunity for the park site came up when the City had few other options.
To continue the history....after the ballot measure for the city library funding bond failed, it was determined not to pursue the Prop 14 funds. The city would fund the library on its own. During that same time (about a year ago) some residents voiced opposition to the fire station site when they realized we would have to demolish the building to build a new library. Since the Prop 14 requirements were no longer a constraint the city began to look at other alternative sites (Linda also mentioned in detail the shape of the fire stations site, which besides the architectural constraints I mentioned in my last post was a problem). The Commission considered a library/conference center at Kmart, but Khol's exercised its option to remodel the building and open a store there. In response to the growing opposition to tearing down the fire station the Parks Commission proposed swapping the fire station site with the softball field for a location that provides the opportunity to do something architecturally unique and work the library into a more suitable setting building upon the park and the zoo. The Commission considered the pros and cons of the site and held several public meetings regarding the site. The city sent out flyers to residents that may be impacted and Ernie Sheldon met personally with the Lion's to tell them of the Park's commission plan. THERE WAS NO OPPOSITION and none of the local residents attended any of the public meetings. As such, the Commission recommended the plan to the Commission who supported the site unanamously. The next step was funding, the city chose to begin to put General Fund money $350,000 a year into the library construction fund, this is the cost of ongoing operations so the city just budgeted operations now instead of after the library is built. All of a sudden (after some opposing editorials), when the city council voted on moving this general fund money into the library construction fund the Folsom Lion's came to the council meeting (many of whom are not Folsom residents) and voiced strong opposition to the library site. Many, including myself, were baffled by the Lion's opposition since the library will actually make the park more usable and revitalize a park that is rarely used with the exception of the rodeo and concert's in the park. The only Council member to vote against the transfer of funds was Kerri Howell. We all know what has happened since that vote. Sooo...that's the history.
Most of those who oppose building on the softball field have never played on it. I have played softball on that field and I'll tell you from experience that the field is in bad shape, especially the outfield. Also, because of the way the field and the parking is situated. I have never played in a softball game where a car was not hit by a foul ball. I understand that the field is dedicated to Marshall Farley. I am grateful for the veterens that fought for our freedom's especially those from Folsom. We will (as we should) honor Marshall Farley in a way that the granite rock next to a softball field could never honor him. Additionally, his only known relative (his brother) who now lives in Kansas is in support of putting the library where the softball field now stands.
I have listened to those that oppose the library and many of them make very valid arguments. What about the zoo? Will the library close during the rodeo? Is there enough parking? Do lots of trees need to be removed? What about the gazebo and train tracks? All of these issues should be addressed and all are great questions that the Library Commission has concerned itself with. A small group of those in opposition have taken a much darker form of opposition by having a non-resident apply for a recall and stating things that are not factual has in fact resulted in a sad commentary on that group. Sadly, those who have chosen these means of opposition look and sound pathetic, especially since they have NEVER shown up at a Library Commission meeting. When valid arguments are discussed in a public forum. Please, if you want to influence the library in any way come to the meetings and join the Friends of the Folsom Library. If you want to make a difference make it. It's time we start working together voicing our opinions and working toward what is best for FOLSOM residents. When we turn over the dirt with the gold shovels and cut the ribbon we should have a monument to our youth, the seniors who have fought for 10 years for a library, and the veterens who valiantly fought for our freedom.
It is interesting that when we finally have the opportunity to do something right there is so much opposition. People surrounding the park say that those who are in "the inner circle" forced a library on them. None of those opposed to the current site were in any of the meetings when the 20 park sites were discussed initially. The opportunity for the park site came up when the City had few other options.
To continue the history....after the ballot measure for the city library funding bond failed, it was determined not to pursue the Prop 14 funds. The city would fund the library on its own. During that same time (about a year ago) some residents voiced opposition to the fire station site when they realized we would have to demolish the building to build a new library. Since the Prop 14 requirements were no longer a constraint the city began to look at other alternative sites (Linda also mentioned in detail the shape of the fire stations site, which besides the architectural constraints I mentioned in my last post was a problem). The Commission considered a library/conference center at Kmart, but Khol's exercised its option to remodel the building and open a store there. In response to the growing opposition to tearing down the fire station the Parks Commission proposed swapping the fire station site with the softball field for a location that provides the opportunity to do something architecturally unique and work the library into a more suitable setting building upon the park and the zoo. The Commission considered the pros and cons of the site and held several public meetings regarding the site. The city sent out flyers to residents that may be impacted and Ernie Sheldon met personally with the Lion's to tell them of the Park's commission plan. THERE WAS NO OPPOSITION and none of the local residents attended any of the public meetings. As such, the Commission recommended the plan to the Commission who supported the site unanamously. The next step was funding, the city chose to begin to put General Fund money $350,000 a year into the library construction fund, this is the cost of ongoing operations so the city just budgeted operations now instead of after the library is built. All of a sudden (after some opposing editorials), when the city council voted on moving this general fund money into the library construction fund the Folsom Lion's came to the council meeting (many of whom are not Folsom residents) and voiced strong opposition to the library site. Many, including myself, were baffled by the Lion's opposition since the library will actually make the park more usable and revitalize a park that is rarely used with the exception of the rodeo and concert's in the park. The only Council member to vote against the transfer of funds was Kerri Howell. We all know what has happened since that vote. Sooo...that's the history.
Most of those who oppose building on the softball field have never played on it. I have played softball on that field and I'll tell you from experience that the field is in bad shape, especially the outfield. Also, because of the way the field and the parking is situated. I have never played in a softball game where a car was not hit by a foul ball. I understand that the field is dedicated to Marshall Farley. I am grateful for the veterens that fought for our freedom's especially those from Folsom. We will (as we should) honor Marshall Farley in a way that the granite rock next to a softball field could never honor him. Additionally, his only known relative (his brother) who now lives in Kansas is in support of putting the library where the softball field now stands.
I have listened to those that oppose the library and many of them make very valid arguments. What about the zoo? Will the library close during the rodeo? Is there enough parking? Do lots of trees need to be removed? What about the gazebo and train tracks? All of these issues should be addressed and all are great questions that the Library Commission has concerned itself with. A small group of those in opposition have taken a much darker form of opposition by having a non-resident apply for a recall and stating things that are not factual has in fact resulted in a sad commentary on that group. Sadly, those who have chosen these means of opposition look and sound pathetic, especially since they have NEVER shown up at a Library Commission meeting. When valid arguments are discussed in a public forum. Please, if you want to influence the library in any way come to the meetings and join the Friends of the Folsom Library. If you want to make a difference make it. It's time we start working together voicing our opinions and working toward what is best for FOLSOM residents. When we turn over the dirt with the gold shovels and cut the ribbon we should have a monument to our youth, the seniors who have fought for 10 years for a library, and the veterens who valiantly fought for our freedom.
#53
TreeHuggingLiberal
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 11:23 AM
Cincinnatus - Thank you for your wonderfully, informed posts.
When I was growing up I remember spending many hours a week at the library. Hardly a week would go by that I didn't visit the local branch. Folsom's currently library is anything but inviting and an embarassment to the City.
I can not wait until we have a beautiful new library that we can all be proud of. Maybe then I can stop wasting my hard earned dollars at Borders! Although, I will miss reading with my "cup o' joe"! If only they would put a coffee cart in the new library.
When I was growing up I remember spending many hours a week at the library. Hardly a week would go by that I didn't visit the local branch. Folsom's currently library is anything but inviting and an embarassment to the City.
I can not wait until we have a beautiful new library that we can all be proud of. Maybe then I can stop wasting my hard earned dollars at Borders! Although, I will miss reading with my "cup o' joe"! If only they would put a coffee cart in the new library.
#54
Prairie Oaks Agitator
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 01:02 PM
I attended Tuesday's 2/24 City Council meeting at which the Library Design was presented & the Council approved the resolution moving forward with the EIR process for the Park site. I have been frankly skeptical that all aspects of this badly needed project are the absolute best we could ever have, but I was impressed with the overall design of the New Library.
TreeHuggingLiberal, I will be pleased to buy you a cup of coffee in the Coffee Bar that is part of the design! And I think you will also enjoy the Adult Reading Room in front of the fireplace, while the kids are off in the Children's Wing at story time. The Library plans for meeting rooms, computer center, etc etc which I believe address the needs of Library patrons and the city's image quite nicely. And I think the constraints of the location have been considered in the design & placement of the structure. Overall, the building is like a central cylinder with 2 diagonal wings. Parking & entry/egress are reconfigured to separate Library from Zoo from the Kuntz Little League ball field (which remains in place and also upgraded). Only "a few" of the wonderful park trees will be removed, but the larger tree groves stay. I hug trees too, so I'm happy about that!
Somewhere I hope this presentation gets made widely available---maybe the City will put it on the website---in the meantime, I encourage everyone to try and catch the TV Replays of the meeting. The Library stuff was on around 8:30-9:30pm if I recall correctly.
And just prior to that was the presentation by the Ad Hoc Veteran's Memorial/Honor Committee that was formed in conjunction with the Library Plan to make sure our Veterans were properly considered. Everybody should see that---it was outstanding!
This group of Folsom vets has done all vets proud with its ideas, which were most enthusiastically received by the Council and the audience. A couple highlights: (1) Flag Court in the Library West entrance area (2) Exhibit space in the Library design for Vet Memorials & related info. And (3) another totally cool proposal not related to the Library: "Gold Star" street signs. Many of Folsom's residential streets are named for Folsom Veterans, and those street signs get gold stars so everyone can see & remember. I love this idea, and so did the Council.
TreeHuggingLiberal, I will be pleased to buy you a cup of coffee in the Coffee Bar that is part of the design! And I think you will also enjoy the Adult Reading Room in front of the fireplace, while the kids are off in the Children's Wing at story time. The Library plans for meeting rooms, computer center, etc etc which I believe address the needs of Library patrons and the city's image quite nicely. And I think the constraints of the location have been considered in the design & placement of the structure. Overall, the building is like a central cylinder with 2 diagonal wings. Parking & entry/egress are reconfigured to separate Library from Zoo from the Kuntz Little League ball field (which remains in place and also upgraded). Only "a few" of the wonderful park trees will be removed, but the larger tree groves stay. I hug trees too, so I'm happy about that!
Somewhere I hope this presentation gets made widely available---maybe the City will put it on the website---in the meantime, I encourage everyone to try and catch the TV Replays of the meeting. The Library stuff was on around 8:30-9:30pm if I recall correctly.
And just prior to that was the presentation by the Ad Hoc Veteran's Memorial/Honor Committee that was formed in conjunction with the Library Plan to make sure our Veterans were properly considered. Everybody should see that---it was outstanding!
This group of Folsom vets has done all vets proud with its ideas, which were most enthusiastically received by the Council and the audience. A couple highlights: (1) Flag Court in the Library West entrance area (2) Exhibit space in the Library design for Vet Memorials & related info. And (3) another totally cool proposal not related to the Library: "Gold Star" street signs. Many of Folsom's residential streets are named for Folsom Veterans, and those street signs get gold stars so everyone can see & remember. I love this idea, and so did the Council.
#55
Candy Apple
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 05:50 PM
Thank you Prarie Oaks Agitator (I hope I got that right!) I was there also. The Ad Hoc Vets committee did an outstanding job and the gold star street signs are going to be a fantastic memorial to each individual absent Vet who has a street!
I imagine the final plans will be published in the papers, and I imagine there will be a model eventually in City Hall.
There will be a copy of the floor plan and probably the site plan also in the Friends of The Folsom Library newsletter which will be sent out soon after March 6, 2004. There will be copies of the newsletter in the library.
Maybe they plan drawings could be posted on Folsom Forums also if we ask John nicely!!??
I imagine the final plans will be published in the papers, and I imagine there will be a model eventually in City Hall.
There will be a copy of the floor plan and probably the site plan also in the Friends of The Folsom Library newsletter which will be sent out soon after March 6, 2004. There will be copies of the newsletter in the library.
Maybe they plan drawings could be posted on Folsom Forums also if we ask John nicely!!??
#56
Linda Holderness
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Posted 26 February 2004 - 08:19 PM
I will buy you a cup of coffee, too, TreeHuggingLiberal. There is, indeed, going to be a coffee shop as part of the new library.
#57
Candy Apple
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Posted 27 February 2004 - 08:18 AM
Many, many, thanks to Cincinnatus, and to Treehuggingliberal, and Prarie Oaks Agitator, and Linda for your postings which truly give the facts about the library, and support the efforts of so many.
Hopefully, all the supporters of those efforts can raise a "toast" in the library coffee room to all those who have worked so hard to bring Folsom it's shining jewel!!!!
Hopefully, all the supporters of those efforts can raise a "toast" in the library coffee room to all those who have worked so hard to bring Folsom it's shining jewel!!!!
#58
Terry
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Posted 27 February 2004 - 09:11 AM
To add the library history, prior to its current location in the old fire station on Persifer and Coloma, it was part of the Sacramento County library system and located in the corner of the building behind KFC on Wales and East Bidwell.
#59
Linda Holderness
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Posted 28 February 2004 - 08:11 AM
I can't wait for that party, Candy Apple!
#60
melloguy
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Posted 28 February 2004 - 12:35 PM
cincinnatus - I sent a PM to you two days asking you to edit two errors in your post, one which involves me. I would appreciate if you could just edit your post so I do not need to post a reply.
Joe Mello
Joe Mello
"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is three-fold: its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." -- Joseph Stalin, former dictator of the Soviet Union
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