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Sutter Street Makeover


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Poll: Sutter Street Makeover (90 member(s) have cast votes)

How would you like Sutter Street changed?

  1. Remove medians, covered awnings, and extend sidewalks (28 votes [31.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.11%

  2. Re-do/repair medians, repair covered awnings (40 votes [44.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.44%

  3. Keep medians, lose coverings (2 votes [2.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.22%

  4. Keep coverings, lose medians (5 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  5. Do nothing (15 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

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#61 Steve Heard

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE(davburr @ Oct 15 2007, 12:04 PM) View Post
BTW, there are some folks out collecting signatures to oppose the city's spending of $115 million dollars for this effort to make old town new. They were out in front of Trader Joe's yesterday


You think that removing shed roofs and medians, widening the sidewalks, planting trees, installing lighting and the other improvements will cost $115 million? Where the heck did you get that figure? Whoever gave you that quote number must not have been at the meetings, and may have pulled the figure from a dark place. We are talking about the cost to remove medians and shed roofs, widening sidewalks, making the streets ADA compliant, adding seating, new landscaping and lighting.

$115 million? I believe the figure is closer to $1.5 million. In comparison, the new bridge will cost $110 Million, Palladio mall is expected to cost $80 million, Mondavi Center cost $52 million.

Another rumor resulting from misinformation.


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#62 jagayman

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:11 PM

Haven't been around these parts lately, but after reading this thread, I figured it was time to chime in for something important.

I've only been a Folsom resident for 8 years -- and working in Folsom two years before then. I have bought many of the historic books on Folsom and looked at pictures of Sutter St. from a hundred years back and appreciate the look today over then -- when sutter street had utility poles and one wide dirt road. Even if the historic street is only 50 years old, that's older than many of us, and it's older than most facades in the area -- so I'm calling that historic.

When I drive through older towns, it is easy to tell old facades from revitalized facades. Honestly, I don't care about revitalized areas. They don't make me stop and appreciate the work and sweat that went into the town decades ago.

I can't imagine anyone going through sutter street today would say, "wow, this street is not historically accurate." But, I can imagine after the improvements people will wonder why Folsom modernized Sutter St. and turned it into a European city with striped awnings and outdoor cafes.

If I had a plan, I'd would:
1. Rip out the concrete sidewalks and extend the wooden decking the full length of sutter street -- treated to look aged -- and add ramp areas for ADA requirements. The deck would have to be elevated, however. I'm not concerned about the curb requirements to the street except at the intersections. Why encourage jaywalking? Plus, wouldn't a lowered sidewalk have step-ups to the building entrances that have to be ramped for ADA?
2. Replace older trees. Why pull them out? An arborist can tell which trees need to be replaced and semi-mature trees can be installed in their place. The shade is sorely needed and if trees didn't take decades to mature and horses would trample over them while they tried to grow, historic Sutter St. could have benefitted from them as well.
3. Replace the shed overhangs that are in danger of collapse with historic wooden overhangs. I can only think of two types of building fronts when I see 100-year old photos -- wooden overhangs or none at all. I think none is not a desired outcome -- especially if the trees are going to be ripped out. Also, if the buildings are bare and are treated to make them look "better" after being exposed, what history is left? Imagine painting the old Wells Fargo facade on the museum or the Power House with a nice coat of exterior latex. And no right-minded settler would have used canvas for a permanent overhang -- except the canvas top on their automobile (i.e. wagon).
4. Make the street brick. Alright, this one is right out of touch with Sutter St's history, but it looks better than asphault and lasts much longer.

Now, for an idea of how this would look, go to Old Sacramento. Now clearly the decking and overhangs are not historic, but they fit in with the gold rush/train town image. Basically, it has to be wood. There is no other alternative to reconditioning a gold town.

Alright. I'm done with my ramblings. I'll be back in a few months. BTW, I would love to attend the meeting on the 23rd except that I'm in Davis on Tuesday nights for classes sad.gif

Jason
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#63 cw68

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:21 PM

QUOTE(jagayman @ Oct 16 2007, 12:11 AM) View Post
1. Rip out the concrete sidewalks and extend the wooden decking the full length of sutter street -- treated to look aged -- and add ramp areas for ADA requirements. The deck would have to be elevated, however. I'm not concerned about the curb requirements to the street except at the intersections. Why encourage jaywalking? Plus, wouldn't a lowered sidewalk have step-ups to the building entrances that have to be ramped for ADA?

Now, for an idea of how this would look, go to Old Sacramento. Now clearly the decking and overhangs are not historic, but they fit in with the gold rush/train town image. Basically, it has to be wood. There is no other alternative to reconditioning a gold town.

Hate the wooden sidewalks, they are a pain with strollers or wheelchairs. When my kids were young and we lived within biking distance of Old Sac, a leisurely stroll with the kids when colicky or napping was out of the question. Raised smooth sidewalks, that's OK.

#64 ChipShot

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:16 AM

I find it comical that nobody can offer-up the SPECIFIC $$ amount for this "revitalization", even people who allegedly were a part of the process. Why the secrecy?? What does it cost, and does any of it come from the general fund?? Feels a little fishy to me.... fishing.gif
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#65 Dave Burrell

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:24 AM

QUOTE(jagayman @ Oct 16 2007, 12:11 AM) View Post
Haven't been around these parts lately, but after reading this thread, I figured it was time to chime in for something important.

I've only been a Folsom resident for 8 years -- and working in Folsom two years before then. I have bought many of the historic books on Folsom and looked at pictures of Sutter St. from a hundred years back and appreciate the look today over then -- when sutter street had utility poles and one wide dirt road. Even if the historic street is only 50 years old, that's older than many of us, and it's older than most facades in the area -- so I'm calling that historic.

When I drive through older towns, it is easy to tell old facades from revitalized facades. Honestly, I don't care about revitalized areas. They don't make me stop and appreciate the work and sweat that went into the town decades ago.

I can't imagine anyone going through sutter street today would say, "wow, this street is not historically accurate." But, I can imagine after the improvements people will wonder why Folsom modernized Sutter St. and turned it into a European city with striped awnings and outdoor cafes.

If I had a plan, I'd would:
1. Rip out the concrete sidewalks and extend the wooden decking the full length of sutter street -- treated to look aged -- and add ramp areas for ADA requirements. The deck would have to be elevated, however. I'm not concerned about the curb requirements to the street except at the intersections. Why encourage jaywalking? Plus, wouldn't a lowered sidewalk have step-ups to the building entrances that have to be ramped for ADA?
2. Replace older trees. Why pull them out? An arborist can tell which trees need to be replaced and semi-mature trees can be installed in their place. The shade is sorely needed and if trees didn't take decades to mature and horses would trample over them while they tried to grow, historic Sutter St. could have benefitted from them as well.
3. Replace the shed overhangs that are in danger of collapse with historic wooden overhangs. I can only think of two types of building fronts when I see 100-year old photos -- wooden overhangs or none at all. I think none is not a desired outcome -- especially if the trees are going to be ripped out. Also, if the buildings are bare and are treated to make them look "better" after being exposed, what history is left? Imagine painting the old Wells Fargo facade on the museum or the Power House with a nice coat of exterior latex. And no right-minded settler would have used canvas for a permanent overhang -- except the canvas top on their automobile (i.e. wagon).
4. Make the street brick. Alright, this one is right out of touch with Sutter St's history, but it looks better than asphault and lasts much longer.

Now, for an idea of how this would look, go to Old Sacramento. Now clearly the decking and overhangs are not historic, but they fit in with the gold rush/train town image. Basically, it has to be wood. There is no other alternative to reconditioning a gold town.

Alright. I'm done with my ramblings. I'll be back in a few months. BTW, I would love to attend the meeting on the 23rd except that I'm in Davis on Tuesday nights for classes sad.gif

Jason


+1 - well said

It'd be nice if we could keep the historic district - well, historic. Just like old town Sacramento is with their wooden sidewalks and coverings. In fact thats an idea right there - use old town Sacto as a benchmark when considering ideas and changes.

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#66 Dave Burrell

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:36 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Oct 16 2007, 07:16 AM) View Post
I find it comical that nobody can offer-up the SPECIFIC $$ amount for this "revitalization", even people who allegedly were a part of the process. Why the secrecy?? What does it cost, and does any of it come from the general fund?? Feels a little fishy to me.... fishing.gif


To answer Steve, I got that number from the folks with the petition who were opposing the changes, they didn't seem like crackpots pulling numbers out of the sky.... but it is the first time I heard about the stuff they were telling us.

To Chip - maybe Steve can provide the correct dollar amount or we can contact Jeff and find out more.

I plan to attend all future meetings - if anyone wants to join me, perhaps have some discussions before and/or after the meetings too, PM me.


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#67 ChipShot

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:40 AM

QUOTE(davburr @ Oct 16 2007, 07:36 AM) View Post
To Chip - maybe Steve can provide the correct dollar amount

That would be nice. There is alot of info on this thread, EXCEPT FOR COSTS....Not sure why that tiny, little detail would be overlooked/swept under the rug ?? Oh well....Politics ??
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#68 Dave Burrell

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 06:43 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Oct 16 2007, 07:40 AM) View Post
That would be nice. There is alot of info on this thread, EXCEPT FOR COSTS....Not sure why that tiny, little detail would be overlooked/swept under the rug ?? Oh well....Politics ??


Lets attend the meetings and find out in person - I also emailed Jeff and asked.

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#69 cw68

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:11 AM

Has anyone looked through the deliverables on the website provided earlier for specifics? I downloaded it, but haven't yet had time to look through it. Those people waiting for someone on MyFolsom to provide you with information need to change tactics. 1) find the answers to your questions and 2) who's to say that the numbers provided here are accurate? (Dave's quoting the petition people as an example.)

And, no Old Sacramento. That place is a joke.

#70 ChipShot

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:15 AM

QUOTE(cw68 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:11 AM) View Post
1) find the answers to your questions

Hey, the answers DON'T EXIST !!! That's what I'm tryin' to tell ya !!!! Sheeesh.......
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#71 john

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:50 AM

What's wrong with Old Sacramento? Personally, I think they did everything right. With the exception of the on-street parking, it's a great vision.


#72 cw68

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:54 AM

QUOTE(john @ Oct 16 2007, 08:50 AM) View Post
What's wrong with Old Sacramento? Personally, I think they did everything right. With the exception of the on-street parking, it's a great vision.

I hate Old Sacramento. Hate the wooden sidewalks, the assortments of shops and the general cheese factor that permeates the area. I realize it's a big step up from its previous life, but feel like it's an empty shell. Looks OK but has no soul, no substance. The restaurants aren't good, the shops are generally tacky and except for the train museum, there's not much reason for locals to visit again and again.

#73 bordercolliefan

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 07:58 AM

At first I didn't want them to touch Sutter Street -- but I must say I LOVE the artist's drawing. The notion of a real, vibrant downtown -- kind of like downtown Palo Alto or Davis -- with shops, cafes, bookstores that you actually want to go to... it sounds fantastic.

#74 Chad Vander Veen

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE(cw68 @ Oct 16 2007, 08:54 AM) View Post
I hate Old Sacramento. Hate the wooden sidewalks, the assortments of shops and the general cheese factor that permeates the area. I realize it's a big step up from its previous life, but feel like it's an empty shell. Looks OK but has no soul, no substance. The restaurants aren't good, the shops are generally tacky and except for the train museum, there's not much reason for locals to visit again and again.


Rio City Cafe is good
Fat's is good
The Firehouse is excellent
Joe's Crab Shack is good for what it is meant to be
Laughs Unlimited is a fine comedy club
O'Malley's is great dive bar
Fannie Anne's has great character/history



#75 cw68

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:03 AM

QUOTE(c_vanderveen @ Oct 16 2007, 09:00 AM) View Post
Rio City Cafe is good
Fat's is good
The Firehouse is excellent
Joe's Crab Shack is good for what it is meant to be
Laughs Unlimited is a fine comedy club
O'Malley's is great dive bar
Fannie Anne's has great character/history

Rio City Cafe is not that good. Just has a good location.
Fat's is fine.
I found the Firehouse to be way overrated and I so wanted it to be good. Tried it a couple of times in hopes of just that.
Joe's Crab Shack fits the soulless vibe.
True, good comedy club.
Don't get to hang at dive bars anymore. sad.gif
Don't know about Fannie Anne's.




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