182 replies to this topic

[Michael Hughes]

Light rail in Folsom is awesome.

I just wish it ran more often and that there were better bus connections to EDH and Folsom.

[Bill Z]

next time I get jury duty, I plan on using light rail to get to downtown, other than that, maybe go for a joy ride with my son, as he loves trains. You know, ride it to Rancho & back, maybe walk to a restuarant while in Rancho

[Andrea V]

I heard they are extending the light rail hours on New Years eve to midnight.... so you can get downtown to party, but you can't get home.... ?

[cw68]

I've heard rumors that in some countries people actually prefer to ride the trains around the cities. My wife says that the trains in Paris, Prague, and Rome are pretty good, but in Venice, not so good.

In Chicago, living by an "L" station, or a train station is a plus. Even in the suburbs! Yikes! I used to take the train into downtown Chicago from my hometown suburb. I loved it. Coffee and the newspaper in the morning to ease into my day and then a mile walk to my office to wake me up. The best! Then the ride home was relaxing. Sometimes a nap (though I did sleep past my stop once), but often I'd hang with the same people in the same car each day. Pull out some cards, have a little bookclub meeting and a beer on Fridays.

The "L" wasn't as relaxing, but it was quick and had more stops so you were closer to your destination (nice in the winter). You could use it 24/7 and not just for work. I loved that it was at my disposal whenever I needed it. But it was more regulated than the trains here. I still don't understand why they don't have the stations gated and you can only get in with a ticket or payment. That keeps people from riding for free and actually bringing in money.

[Robert Giacometti]

Our region does NOT have the population base or the density of jobs in an area to make light rail or public transportation work efficiently. Light rail may be a good system for a few, but until we change our land use planning decisions, its never going to be cost effective and will need substantial public subsidy.

Maybe in the future, when gas gets to $5.00 per gallon or the region's population grows substantially and we do a better job of planning, will light rail rail ever get to be cost effective.

RT is talking about making cuts to balance budgets, this is NOT a good sign. You can't get citizens to try public transportation buy making reducing service.

Also, given the huge budget deficit facing our state there is no way to increase funding for public transportation, until the politicians cut other programs that encourage more citizens to rely on public assistance for survival.

Some day some people will figure this out.

[Warren G]

Our region does NOT have the population base or the density of jobs in an area to make light rail or public transportation work efficiently.

I am very glad I don't live in an area with population density like Chicago and other big cities.

One look at the freeways will show where the area's jobs are concentrated.

One look at where homes are being built will show where the population "base" is growing. There are, or will be trains serving those areas.

During commute hours the trains to and from Folsom are FULL from Sunrise and west of there. More cars or trains are needed. I'd say that's as much useage as anyone could reasonably expect.

[Robert Giacometti]

I am very glad I don't live in an area with population density like Chicago and other big cities.

One look at the freeways will show where the area's jobs are concentrated.

One look at where homes are being built will show where the population "base" is growing. There are, or will be trains serving those areas.

During commute hours the trains to and from Folsom are FULL from Sunrise and west of there. More cars or trains are needed. I'd say that's as much useage as anyone could reasonably expect.

Warren, Even with full trains leaving Folsom in the morning, RT is running at a deficit. The State is in no position to offer any additional funding, in fact they are cutting funding, which will lead to additional deficits at RT.

How do you propose solving the RT deficit, cutting service or raising fares?

[DrKoz23]

I used to take the train into downtown Chicago from my hometown suburb. I loved it. Coffee and the newspaper in the morning to ease into my day and then a mile walk to my office to wake me up. The best!

Unfortunately the RT board doesn't think Sacramento area residents are competent enough to bring coffee or food on board. I am fairly sure it is banned from the trains.

[DrKoz23]

During commute hours the trains to and from Folsom are FULL from Sunrise and west of there. More cars or trains are needed. I'd say that's as much useage as anyone could reasonably expect.

I wonder what the percentage of riders are using passes that are subsidized by local or state governments. Also... those on jury duty are given free passes to ride the train to get to the courthouse downtown.

The ridership may be artificially inflated because the taxpayer is actually paying for them to ride the train. How many of them would still be riding the train if the local or state governments did pay for their passes.

[DrKoz23]

Warren, Even with full trains leaving Folsom in the morning, RT is running at a deficit. The State is in no position to offer any additional funding, in fact they are cutting funding, which will lead to additional deficits at RT.

How do you propose solving the RT deficit, cutting service or raising fares?

Robert...

I totally agree with your past two posts. This region isn't large enough to support a mass transit train system. How much more cost effective would it be to run express buses from Folsom to downtown Sacramento? These buses wouldn't have to be tied to a specific route either. You can't move the train tracks... but you can sure adjust where buses would go.

With RT running deficits every year... I don't really know what to do. They want to expand to the airport... and it may help ridership a bit... but probably not enough to re-coup the costs to build it there. Most cities of Sacramento's size that have light rail also see massive subsidizing of the system. It is not self sufficient. The only cities that rail service really is cost effective are those that have a high population density. It probably would have been better if RT would have stuck solely with buses... with the ability to make adjustments.

[Warren G]

So that we could adequately assess the value of the trains and busses, please provide ridership data for each of the bus lines and train lines within commute hours, and outside of commute hours. Since there are several people here speaking against the trains and busses, let's see the complete data that supports your suggestion.

Let's see now, make cuts to a lightly-used bus line that provides lower income folks their only means to get to work and elsewhere, or cut the train services even though the trains are full?

I see those train station parking lots with THOUSANDS of cars in them every weekday and think that it's nice that all of those cars aren't on the freeways and on the surface streets were jobs are located. Less parking lot spaces needed downtown too.

[DrKoz23]

So that we could adequately assess the value of the trains and busses, please provide ridership data for each of the bus lines and train lines within commute hours, and outside of commute hours. Since there are several people here speaking against the trains and busses, let's see the complete data that supports your suggestion.

Let's see now, make cuts to a lightly-used bus line that provides lower income folks their only means to get to work and elsewhere, or cut the train services even though the trains are full?

I see those train station parking lots with THOUSANDS of cars in them every weekday and think that it's nice that all of those cars aren't on the freeways and on the surface streets were jobs are located. Less parking lot spaces needed downtown too.

Ridership data is available through RT.

Here is the latest...

Light rail ridership... 50,000 trips per week (represents both Gold and Blue line)
Bus ridership... 58,052 trips per week

Parking spots for entire system... 7482
- Folsom Historic... 102
- Glenn... 165
- Iron Point... 216
- Hazel... 432
- Sunrise... 487

Source: Sac RT Website
(http://www.sacrt.com)

There are just over 1000 spots for the 50 corridor near Folsom... not thousands. I don't drive past each of these stations each day... so I can't comment on how full they are.

There are approximately 155,000 cars that travel Highway 50 per day. Say all spots from Folsom to Sunrise are filled... that is a reduction of only .7 percent each day! Not a significant dent at all.

Source: SacBee
(http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/137998.html)

The cost to build the Folsom extension and the downtown train station extension was estimated to cost $255M... but we all know they came in over budget after several delays. The estimated distance of this extension was 10 miles. That's approx $25M per mile! I don't have exact figures on how much it costs to operate a bus line every year... but I don't think express buses to downtown Sacramento would have cost this much. Plus... schedules and routes can be altered when demand is needed. So far it has been impossible to change the light rail schedules to Folsom.

Source: Sacramento TMA (http://www.sacramento-tma.org/nwslttr_LightRailExpansion.htm#Update_on_RT_financing_light_rail_extensions)

As stated previously... RT is subsidized quite a bit... and with budgets coming up short decisions are being made on which bus routes to eliminate. Was it really wise to spend all that money on light rail when RT couldn't support its current system?

[Warren G]

Light rail ridership... 50,000 trips per week

Excellent!

There are just over 1000 spots for the 50 corridor near Folsom... not thousands.

Butterfield is huge as is the lot near Watt Avenue. Like I said, thousands of cars.

There are approximately 155,000 cars that travel Highway 50 per day. Say all spots from Folsom to Sunrise are filled... that is a reduction of only .7 percent each day! Not a significant dent at all.

The dent is during the commute hours. Like the 300 or so fewer cars getting on the Freeway in Folsom, and then getting off in Folsom.

Was it really wise to spend all that money on light rail when RT couldn't support its current system?

Light rail is getting a higher density of riders than the busses.
How much of the cost for light rail was borne by local funding? How much was state and federal funding?

"Express busses" aren't as safe or comfortable or amiable as trains, nor can they travel as fast as the trains during commute hours, so their appeal would be much, much lower than for the trains.

[supermom]

I have ridden the light rail 2 times in the last 4 years. Once for jury duty from Glenn down to sac and once from sunrise to old town ( because Glenn would be closed on the way back so I had to park at the closest station.)

Down to sac there was no issues but I was surprised at the lack of ticket checking.

The route to old town I was dismayed by the filth on the train. Newspapers and drink cups and food wrappers on the floor. They fluttered and slid up and down the aisles.
A guy gets on the train next to us and is drinking from a BK cup. He's underclothed for the weather and filthy and starts to fall asleep. At some point he finishes his drink and throws it down on the floor. I mean he stood up and slammed it down on the floor like the cup needed to be punished. He mutters and murmurs and falls back to sleep. On the way back a guy was drunk when he got on ( and handicapped ) and he tries to get into a conversation with me about the 49ers. But another passengers gets angry and tells him to bleep off and that the 9ers won't go anywhere. They start yelling at other.
Then the drunk handicapped guy starts trying to preach to my daughter about the values of staying away from drugs ( WTH ? Right? ) So, while I'm trying to move up the aisle a big guy sits down in a chair next to a woman he came on board with and starts necking her. Then he raises his fist to her and yells when she turns her face. Then he grabs her and pulls her off the train at the next station.

No offense, but what the heck is wrong with these people?

And I don't think the trains are getting paid by all the riders. If they want to make money--they should be checking the tickets more diligently.

[Dave Burrell]

I have ridden the light rail 2 times in the last 4 years. Once for jury duty from Glenn down to sac and once from sunrise to old town ( because Glenn would be closed on the way back so I had to park at the closest station.)

Down to sac there was no issues but I was surprised at the lack of ticket checking.

The route to old town I was dismayed by the filth on the train. Newspapers and drink cups and food wrappers on the floor. They fluttered and slid up and down the aisles.
A guy gets on the train next to us and is drinking from a BK cup. He's underclothed for the weather and filthy and starts to fall asleep. At some point he finishes his drink and throws it down on the floor. I mean he stood up and slammed it down on the floor like the cup needed to be punished. He mutters and murmurs and falls back to sleep. On the way back a guy was drunk when he got on ( and handicapped ) and he tries to get into a conversation with me about the 49ers. But another passengers gets angry and tells him to bleep off and that the 9ers won't go anywhere. They start yelling at other.
Then the drunk handicapped guy starts trying to preach to my daughter about the values of staying away from drugs ( WTH ? Right? ) So, while I'm trying to move up the aisle a big guy sits down in a chair next to a woman he came on board with and starts necking her. Then he raises his fist to her and yells when she turns her face. Then he grabs her and pulls her off the train at the next station.

No offense, but what the heck is wrong with these people?

And I don't think the trains are getting paid by all the riders. If they want to make money--they should be checking the tickets more diligently.

sounds like its time to get some cops to sit on board a few of the trains to keep the animals in check - and keep them from hassling other passengers

I gotta give this train a ride someday - I'd love to get into it with some of these dirtbags and throw them off the train myself - all these stories I keep hearing are killing the good that the train is intended for - its time to clean up the riff raff