82 replies to this topic

[Dave Burrell]

Davburr-

I feel like you and I went toe to toe on a couple of topics here, but I've also grown to respect what you have to offer this forum and to me personally. Likewise, I'd buy you a beer and have offered up cigar night to others on this forum before.

I very much like Steve, but he's one of only a couple of folks I've actually met in person, although I've talked to a few others in PMs.

I agree with what you're saying. it's just as I've stated int he very recent past. If someone is going to be a keyboard warrior, we'd all be better served if they exercised their right to remain silent!

I don't "dislike" anyone here, but I do think there are some pretty annoying people. Follow grandmas advice and when you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything.

Hey jafount the feeling is mutual and I have learned alot from your posts and look forward to reading them. Wish I couldve made it to streets that nite, we will have to try again soon, it would be cool to meet up for brewhas

[Revolutionist]

Did you used to work with Al Gore?

I wish! Then I could have invented the internet too.
and global warming!

[wrabbit]

I feel we all need to understand and appreciate the work it takes the Moderators and John to run this board. Saying he should do more is not really up to us, because we don't know the demands on his life or the time he has to be on this board, and over see it. He does the best he can, I'm sure. So to demand he do more isn't fair, in my opinion. Since this topic has been brought up more than once, and there wasn't a change to the satisfaction of a few posters, it would seem that little can be done to improve things. I've been to a few other boards that I didn't care for, but rather than complain, I just left. But, I realize I can't always have things to suit me. Maybe that is the deeper message here. I know I couldn't and wouldn't do what he does to keep this board running.

I've often felt that because my opinions weren't liked, some posters took issue with me and posted snide comments, which really served no purpose but to piss me off. I've been attacked in harsh ways and in ways which were politically correct...both hit the same mark and made me feel the same way. I've also been called names by some who consider themselves nice. Go figure.

Some of those posters now feel they are good members of this board and would not really admit they have ever done anything wrong, dishonest or under handed. When in fact, some have been guilty, no doubt, of doing the same things they are now complaining about. Hiding behind an ID is something many here have done before, but it is probably considered by some, to be a way to protect themselves. But like another poster stated, it's the message that is important, not the ID.

I'm not a perfect poster, but I don't hold a grudge like some here do. It's like if you post something they don't like, you are on their list of "posters not to like", and they will argue with you about every opinion you have, just because they don't like you. They will bring up things you have posted in the past and never forget that you were the one who crossed them. That is so small minded and immature.
Just let it go.

I now have one ID on this board and have tried to give input and my opinions as honestly as I can. But, being human, I have a tendency to bite back, when being bitten. So, I am guilty of defending myself when I feel it's necessary. I try not to direct posts to a certain poster unless they direct one at me. I basically post in the same tone as those who reply to mine. So, if you want me to be nice, be nice to me.

I too, have sometimes written a post, only to delete it and move on to another topic. Some posters are just not worth the go round and the back and forth, that will take place when you respond to them. However, some keep hounding you to reply and make you feel you must to defend yourself. Going after a person, I have found, is not really the right thing to do. I have learned, while here, to be a better poster and even a more open minded person. I have some strong opinions, but realize that everyone must do what they feel is right, because they will be the ones living with the consequences later, not me.

Now as to "positive posting"...what is that? Please somebody clarify that term to me so I won't be guilty of violating it. Does it mean I must agree with everyone here? I hope not, because then it would get pretty boring and I'd leave. Maybe everyone should take a vote on who should leave and post it for all to read. If I were to get voted out, it would be no big deal, because I wouldn't want to be where I'm not wanted. There are many boards out there to go to.

I'll leave with a quote I am very fond of...I just wish I knew who said it. Anyone know?

"Be the change you want to see."

[Darthvader]

Yes, I implied that you encouraged censorship with several of the changes/questions that you suggested and asked, respectively, but I never called you a control freak. I'm sorry if I offended you (which I assumed, long ago, I did, because you never responded to my post on this subject), but please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Thanks.

As to the subject, it keeps coming up over and over, and I didn't note who said it, but I feel that whomever it was who said that people responding to the trolls is one of the problems is spot-on. Especially since John has stated that he doesn't have the time nor the inclination to go IP hunting and ban multiple IDs. That's totally his choice and I can understand and respect it completely.

However, the alternative is then the example of someone like Darthvader. We see people getting on Darthvader for his negativity, if everyone stops replying to him, perhaps he'll just quietly go away?

You can't change or control anyone, if you're expecting everyone to act like adults. So, respond to those whom you know are real and honest (despite having met them or not) and ignore the rest.

The cream will rise.

Nope not going to happen, you NEED a devil's advocate here. Otherwise it's all cupcakes, rainbows, and pats on the back. Hardly a reality check which is really needed in this town. But, I appreciate your good thoughts and thanks for thinking about me, I'll do the same for you.

BTW, isn't the cream the spoiled part of the mix?

[wrabbit]

Although many here dislike some of Darth's comments and opinions, I think he adds a great deal to this board by making people think a little harder about what they believe.

Yes, one could say he is the Devil's Advocate! And yes, if posters like him were not around, I don't believe I could tolerate the sugar high coming off this board. Who's right is it to say every post must be to their liking, anyway?

It all goes back to tolerance. If you don't like the thread, go to another. If you don't like the thread but feel the need to post your opinion, stand and fight to the death to be heard...in a respectful way, that is.

I feel some on this board just want it too perfect and can not stand the heat. Maybe a little vacation from the board is in order, once in a while?

And you know what they say about the heat....if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

With all due respect...Dave, many here didn't like the posts that were placed by Spicy, but they tolerated them or ignored them, because they were obnoxious and immature....nothing to take serious. Maybe some felt they were less of a nuisance than you did. It's all perception, isn't it?

[Darthvader]

I'm going to try and take a hard line against the negative posters on the board. ChipShot, as you may have noticed, has been given a 1 week suspension. He wasn't happy about it, but a lot of times the cooling off period works... 99% of the people here contribute in a positive manner... those who don't, won't be welcome.

I have also encouraged mods to edit attacks on the board. We've let it slip too much and it's time to get back to the basics.

"Be cool, or be gone!"

Hmmm..hadn't noticed.

[Dave Burrell]

With all due respect...Dave, many here didn't like the posts that were placed by Spicy, but they tolerated them or ignored them, because they were obnoxious and immature....nothing to take serious. Maybe some felt they were less of a nuisance than you did. It's all perception, isn't it?

You nailed it dude, this thread was created out of my curiosity about some people's mindsets and why they think and do what they do (I'm always curious and looking to learn more about people, places, issues, things, etc) - and the question/post was based mostly on my experiences with spicy here.

Just for the record, I've never had any probs with you, heck I think you're a very thoughtful person with a vast amount of knowledge about many interesting subjects that are close to home - I've learned alot from your posts (both here and there) and I like how you debate and provide valuable information. I don't consider you anonymous really because you don't bs, you always completely back up all your statements. You're a straight up honest person and its noticable in your well written posts.

Now I understand completly what you're saying in your post, and I know I shouldn't let spicy get to me and should have just put him/her on ignore (cripes, we don't even know what spicy is).

My beef is that it isn't just me reading those bs negative reviews/posts, I think about all the folsmites and guests here reading it too and how those bs posts are going to falsely steer people away from our good local independant restaurants. (and I'm really talking only about the good ones). I feel folks are being seriously misled by spicy's false pretenses that he/she is a food expert.... and since he/she keeps playing the "I'm an anonymous nobody, but I know more about food then anyone else in Folsom and will put you down when you say otherwise" game, I felt it was worth discussing this noticable problem....just to see if I could get any answers to try and figure out the mindset we're dealing with

All the bad press spicy posts about our local restaurants I feel were done to hurt our business' here (and to some extent, steer people to dine outside of Folsom) and I wanted to know what the motive for that was.... being unable to get any answers to direct posts and pm's to him/her makes me feel there's something very suspicious about the motives of spicy - thats the being honest part I've been refering to all along - being able to back up statements instead of just throwing negative crap online without any reason or justification for it other then "because I said so" - that just doesn't work for me and I feel its really hurting many nice places here in town.... it seems to me to be some kinda of vendetta for some bizarre reason.

I still feel bad for George and all the uncessary crap he got from spicy's sh*tty posts about his place

its one thing to say you didn't like a place that really was truly bad, but its another to continually post negative things that are completely bogus... and never ever backing it up with any facts or reasons that are valid

If a place is crappy, a negative review is justified, but when 9 out of 10 people say they like a place, and spicy comes along and says its not fit for an animal or crap like that - anyone who reads that in the future is possibly going to think twice before visiting that place and that ain't right.... to me its hurting Folsom business'

My problem I guess is I like Folsom a lot and I want to see the great places in town succeed and for some reason I feel seriously compelled to post the truth about a place to counteract the negative crap that is false... again, if a place really is bad then thats cool, but when its a great place getting bad press like that... I just gotta do something...

Also, when I say anonymous I don't mean a person has to divuldge their personal info - rather, I mean they should be able to back up their statements with facts or reasons or a background on why they feel they are an "expert" on the subject, hope that makes sense...

by the way I agree with Darth about the devils advocate thing, heck thats probably why I like having Chip around - different points of view always help us think deeper about issues and we can all learn lots from a good healthy debate and the many different perspectives involved.

but being a devils advocate is totally different then being just a plain ol' big behind-hole

Have a great weekend dude!

(cripes I think this is the longest post I've ever done, sorry about that folks)

[ngilbert]

However, some keep hounding you to reply and make you feel you must to defend yourself. Going after a person, I have found, is not really the right thing to do.

Good points wrabbit. Also worth mentioning is that the board offers an "ignore" feature. I don't use it, but it's there if, for mental health or blood pressure reasons, you want to just skip past posts of members you think may be intentionally trying to bait you. It's also good if you just want to skip past posts that are wasting your time (like mine for example )

Although many here dislike some of Darth's comments and opinions, I think he adds a great deal to this board by making people think a little harder about what they believe.

Yes, one could say he is the Devil's Advocate! And yes, if posters like him were not around, I don't believe I could tolerate the sugar high coming off this board. Who's right is it to say every post must be to their liking, anyway?

I prefer the term "Emperor's Advocate"

Seriously though, at the risk of turning this thread into a debate on the merits of DarthVader, I gotta say I agree with you. He certainly doesn't need me to defend him (that's what the TIE Fighters are for), but he adds perspective and humor, even if it's just an occasional needed balloon-popping. I sense some good in him, father.

Also, he's not the kind of poster (or *the* poster) I think Dav was complaining about anyway. I don't think Dav's advocating we all join hands and sing Joan Baez songs together anyway, which, like you, I agree would completely bite.

[Dave Burrell]

Good points wrabbit. Also worth mentioning is that the board offers an "ignore" feature. I don't use it, but it's there if, for mental health or blood pressure reasons, you want to just skip past posts of members you think may be intentionally trying to bait you. It's also good if you just want to skip past posts that are wasting your time (like mine for example )

I prefer the term "Emperor's Advocate"

Seriously though, at the risk of turning this thread into a debate on the merits of DarthVader, I gotta say I agree with you. He certainly doesn't need me to defend him (that's what the TIE Fighters are for), but he adds perspective and humor, even if it's just the occasional needed balloon-popping. I sense some good in him, father.

Also, he's not the kind of poster (or *the* poster) I think Dav was complaining about anyway. I don't think Dav's advocating we all join hands and sing Joan Baez songs together anyway, which, like you, I agree would completely bite.

Haahaha dude you are awesome - if you run for Prez I'll vote for ya!

and you're right, Darth is not the kind of poster I was referring to - heck I like his stuff, sometimes its harsh, but as Robert mentioned earlier too - it forces us to think and thats always good. Debates are no good when everyone always agree.

We gotta have opposite thinkers if we're to have a good debate, sitting in a circle singing kumbaya would bore the heck outta me.

When I first came on here, I initially got pissed at posts by EDF, Doug72, folks like Darth etc, but over time I learned to open my mind and think and absorb the different perspectives, I actually really learned a lot by hearing from folks who had differeing opinions. I've now come to respect EDF, Doug/Chip, Jafound etc because as already mentioned, it sometimes forces us to think (and learn) about things beyond our own beliefs.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

I don't think Dav's advocating we all join hands and sing Joan Baez songs together anyway, which, like you, I agree would completely bite.

Exactly. The issue isn't that we all have to agree and pat each other on the back. Playing devil's advocate is a good thing, as is respectful debate. The issue is whether members can disagree, debate and play devil's advocate in a respectful manner. It's somewhat scary and sad that so many don't seem to understand this very basic point.

[Steve Heard]

I see nothing wrong with keeping one's real identity a secret. I only take issue with those who seem to be here only to post negative comments and to ridicule others, or to hurt someone's business or political life. It's one thing to post a review or opinion, quite another to accuse someone of wrong doing.

Still, I try not to take it too seriously. It's a community billboard and I participate for fun, to meet people, to try to influence others, gain business, and shoot my mouth off about subjects of which I know very little. ;-)

I've met many myfolsom members, have helped lots of them find, buy, sell or finance homes, and best of all, have made a few good friends.

It's funny that although we might butt heads on the web, we all seem to be failry decent in person.

I guess since we all have one thing in common, being opinionated members of this online community, we can see beyond personal differences, for the most part.

[Jolene]

Yeah, sorry for calling out Darthvader. I used him as an example because I know that many people have complained about his negativity in the past.

For the record, I have no problem with Darth either, and also enjoy the Devil's advocate stances that he and others will often take. I think the main problem comes in when there is really something with relevance posted (IE: News story, movie review, restaurant review) and the response is an unhelpful "Who cares" or something along those lines. I think that sort of thing plays into the negativity that people are talking about. Though, I could be wrong.

And supermom: it's too late for me to quote your post directly, but thanks for clarifitying to whom you were referring. I know that I have, in the past, beleived and expressed that you were for more control and censorship of the forum, and so when you brought up "a poster" (specificially singular) who accused you of that, I automatically assumed you meant me (because it is, after all, all about me). I was unaware of your going toe-to-toe with Wrabbit. Again, thanks for the clarification.

[Fire]

But like another poster stated, it's the message that is important, not the ID.

Now as to "positive posting"...what is that?

Does it mean I must agree with everyone here? I hope not, because then it would get pretty boring and I'd leave.

There are many boards out there to go to.

I'll leave with a quote I am very fond of...I just wish I knew who said it. Anyone know?

"Be the change you want to see."

If people only focused on the message and not the messenger there wouldn't be an issue.

Let me help you a bit in understanding "positive posting" at least from what I've seen here. Darth said it best below, cupcakes and rainbows.

And I fully agree with Darth - "hardly the reality check that's needed in this town"

Here are some examples of "negative posting"

- Bush sucks because of x,y,z. Negative. He's your president, shame on you.
- A priest molests a child - That's negative. How dare you bring that up?
- A cop commits a crime - That's negative. You cop hater you.
- A teacher molests a child - negative. You don't support teachers.

The heck with the kid or the victim, you are not to question our institutions, traditions or cultural beliefs.

There's less of an interest as to what is right and just, and more about protecting traditional institutions regardless of the crimes and injustices they commit. Pointing out reality is a no-no.

Now if you want to talk about cupcakes and rainbows, well, you're Mr. Wonderful. We all love you and would like to meet you, have you over for dinner or a BBQ.

At least just my ID is fake and anonymous - whereas some of you prefer real, honest IDs and fake lives.

Nope not going to happen, you NEED a devil's advocate here. Otherwise it's all cupcakes, rainbows, and pats on the back. Hardly a reality check which is really needed in this town.

Darth, wrabbit, EDF, Chip, Doug72, and those of you that haven't won the cupcakes and rainbows popularity contest, keep up the good fight bringing this community into the real world and out of their dream state.

And it's be the change you want to see in the world - Gandhi

[Bill Z]

Hi Fire,

I'm unsure how to understand your post. I'm not clear if you are dripping with sarcasm in it or not. I find it confusing trying to know your real meaning. Maybe that's just me.

[Andrea V]

Hi Fire,

I'm unsure how to understand your post. I'm not clear if you are dripping with sarcasm in it or not. I find it confusing trying to know your real meaning. Maybe that's just me.

+1