105 replies to this topic

[palango]

If you are going into those fields and aren't already interested in those subjects than you have no business there.

Its not about interest. Its about Supply and Demand and good old capitalism. We are faced with severe shortages of higly skilled drs, engineers,Nurses and some IT folks. This is why there is a great immigration from other countries to here in the US because we are such failures to produce.

Its about kids becoming SUCCESSFUL adults and being able to pay their mortgages and being able to compete against Sardar Singh from India. Capitalism is about being competitive. Its not about rewarding mediocrity.

[palango]

I don't think it takes funds $$$ or power. I think it takes parent time, dedication, and involvement with their own child and their child's school.

More good points, but let me ask you another question that has been bugging me? Lets say that you are SUPER invloved @ your kids school and you spend time @ home and are dedicated, but you notice that most of the other parents @ your son/daughter's class are NOT invloved and they are the opposite of you. In fact, peer pressure and other factors put more pressure on your kid to "go with the flow". So how can you deal or what are some effective strategies you would employ to combat the school environment of this broken CA school??

[chris v]

Its not about interest. Its about Supply and Demand and good old capitalism. We are faced with severe shortages of higly skilled drs, engineers,Nurses and some IT folks. This is why there is a great immigration from other countries to here in the US because we are such failures to produce.

Not what you said here.

how would you make the future generation of Californians Drs, Engineers, and make them more interested in Math and Science???

Failures to produce is not the reason for immigration... We live in the best country in the world and you think that because we are failures is why people are immigrating???

Its about kids becoming SUCCESSFUL adults and being able to pay their mortgages and being able to compete against Sardar Singh from India. Capitalism is about being competitive. Its not about rewarding mediocrity.

We'll never see eye to eye on this. No child should ever, EVER have to worry about affording a house or competing against others. Let them be kids while they still are. Children and capitalism should never be mixed. I hate hearing kids talk about how their parents can't afford certain things... why do they even know about it? Materialism and having a mortgage and all that other stuff does not measure success by any means.

[palango]

Not what you said here.
Failures to produce is not the reason for immigration... We live in the best country in the world and you think that because we are failures is why people are immigrating???

People are Immigrating because we are too damn lazy to score high in math, Science, Medical fields. The human brain has the same capacity to learn and absorb. There is no difference in brain chemistry between John Anderson here in Folsom (7 years old) and Chattan Singh in India.

One of the main reason for Immigration to the US is because of Capitalism. If there was NO shortage in capable Scientists, Doctors, Nurses, and other highly skilled fields, then why the hell would any professional idiot want to immigrate here????

My whole point is that whether you like it or NOT, the PARENTS of kids in today's generation are faced with a decision that can impact them greatly in the future. Sure you can do the "RAH RAH RAH, do what you are intersted in and lets go to our little league games and watch our rated R films and do what interssts them or their parents OR steer them (without putting massive pressure that they HAVE to because that will not work because kids rebel) towards fields that are COMPETITIVE in the FUTURE. Its called forward thinking.

The reason why the US is getting killed in the Science, mathematics, medical fields is because of parents that PROMOTE mediocrity. I believe that parents should give their children every academic competitive advantage (within limits of course.. no cheating). they should steer them towards fields that will make them successful in the future.

(For the record, I have nothing agains Little leagures out there. Kudos to the parents that can do it all and their children still maintain a high GPA)

[ducky]

More good points, but let me ask you another question that has been bugging me? Lets say that you are SUPER invloved @ your kids school and you spend time @ home and are dedicated, but you notice that most of the other parents @ your son/daughter's class are NOT invloved and they are the opposite of you. In fact, peer pressure and other factors put more pressure on your kid to "go with the flow". So how can you deal or what are some effective strategies you would employ to combat the school environment of this broken CA school??

The strategy I think is effective is to keep them busy with extracurricular activities. Music is a good one. Start them in elementary school. The schools offer this starting in fourth grade. Marching band or orchestra or choir for upper grades is great. Sports is another good way to keep them out of trouble. It doesn't have to be a team sport. Karate is an example.

I don't mean to imply inundating your poor children with dance lessons, gym lessons, or music lessons is the way to go. You have them choose their one favorite. I've found that the children they associate with in these classes aren't usually the "go with the flow" children.

[tessieca]

Palango does have a point about certain professions immigrating here because there is a need for people in those fields. As an example, look at how many engineers are here on work visas at Intel. S/he is also on track about trying to direct your kids into something useful. Some kids have an aptitude for math, science, etc., but there isn't a culture in this country that pushes them to go into those fields for work. An Indian friend told me once that for Indian children, they are told from very young that they will be engineers or doctors. Small children are given doctors' kits as gifts. Math and science work is applauded, and expectations are high. You'll likely find, if you were to count, a disproportionate number of Indians in doctors' offices and engineering jobs.

I don't have the answers, but I'm just noting that there are cultural differences in our country that don't necessarily support an influx of kids into math and science fields, especially girls.

[ducky]

Palango does have a point about certain professions immigrating here because there is a need for people in those fields. As an example, look at how many engineers are here on work visas at Intel. S/he is also on track about trying to direct your kids into something useful. Some kids have an aptitude for math, science, etc., but there isn't a culture in this country that pushes them to go into those fields for work. An Indian friend told me once that for Indian children, they are told from very young that they will be engineers or doctors. Small children are given doctors' kits as gifts. Math and science work is applauded, and expectations are high. You'll likely find, if you were to count, a disproportionate number of Indians in doctors' offices and engineering jobs.

I don't have the answers, but I'm just noting that there are cultural differences in our country that don't necessarily support an influx of kids into math and science fields, especially girls.

I guess my kids are exceptions then (although I don't really believe that). My son has a B.S. in an engineering field and is working on his master's. My daughter will get her B.S. next spring and will then go on to get a doctorate in a medical field. Both are FHS graduates.

I have no idea what my fourth grader will do, but the last thing I will do is push him into a specific field. I especially think it's wrong to pressure a child into becoming a doctor simply to obtain the pay and status when they don't have the desire, which is what is going on with those doctor's kits as gifts. I'd rather have a physician that felt a calling to help people than a physician with a need to please his or her parents.

[chris v]

I have no idea what my fourth grader will do, but the last thing I will do is push him into a specific field. I especially think it's wrong to pressure a child into becoming a doctor simply to obtain the pay and status when they don't have the desire, which is what is going on with those doctor's kits as gifts. I'd rather have a physician that felt a calling to help people than a physician with a need to please his or her parents.

Smartest phrase on this whole thread.

[DalOwnerX3]

It's funny this thread popped up right after I finished reading the book "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. The author brings up a lot of interesting points about how the world is smaller due to technology and there's really no way to turn back globalization but rather embrace it and adjust accordingly.

One thing he brings up with respect to the lack of focus on the hard sciences in the United States is that there's real no motivation to do all that studying. Engineers and doctors are not treated as role models. Look in the paper and all you see are politicians and Britney. Want to be rich and famous? Be a movie star or an athlete. What the country needs is something to compete against and focus their energies. In the sixties, there was a big push toward math and science because of the space race. There really isn't much rallying the country together. We need more movies like "Apollo 13" which shows "nerds" in a good light.

I also agree that while the foreign countries are producing a lot of "smart" people, it's all rote memorization. Palango brings up the example that he'd prefer to have Dr. Singh, who is in the top 1% of his class at an Indian Medical school. That's fine for routine procedures. But what if something unexpected comes along? I'd rather have Dr. House come up with something creative to save my life.

[ducky]

I also agree that while the foreign countries are producing a lot of "smart" people, it's all rote memorization. Palango brings up the example that he'd prefer to have Dr. Singh, who is in the top 1% of his class at an Indian Medical school. That's fine for routine procedures. But what if something unexpected comes along? I'd rather have Dr. House come up with something creative to save my life.

You have a lot of great points in your post, but I don't think Dr. House is a good choice. He's really just an actor playing a doctor, and a Brit to boot. Unlike India, our ingenious friends across the pond recognized doctors aren't as well-paid or respected as actors are in this country, and they had the foresight to teach their children acting with an American accent.

[palango]

I love Dr House. My FAV show.

[palango]

It's funny this thread popped up right after I finished reading the book "The World Is Flat" by Thomas Friedman. The author brings up a lot of interesting points about how the world is smaller due to technology and there's really no way to turn back globalization but rather embrace it and adjust accordingly.

One thing he brings up with respect to the lack of focus on the hard sciences in the United States is that there's real no motivation to do all that studying. Engineers and doctors are not treated as role models. Look in the paper and all you see are politicians and Britney. Want to be rich and famous? Be a movie star or an athlete. What the country needs is something to compete against and focus their energies. In the sixties, there was a big push toward math and science because of the space race. There really isn't much rallying the country together. We need

Great points. Also, I would like to add that in the US, teachers are not really respected that much. In other countries, teachers are supposed to be respected like your parents are more. Sooo true about role models and such. Trash like Brittany and Hip Hop role models. Just look at society. While SOME (not all) folks are wasting their time pushing their daughters to cheerleader school (which I honestly thought was prostitution school at first) instead of focusing on academics. The priorities are waaaay screwed up for future generations.

[supermom]

Hey Ducky, thanks for the idea about the broom clippings.
Reality or not, One of the main reasons I put so much time into doing my kids projects with them, is that I have learned over the years that anyone can present info to their boss. But promotions come with presentation that is eye candy and creativity that illustrates not just a firm knowledge and research of the info but also shows dedication to the task at researching. So, with that in mind--I have a terrible secret to admit. Not once in my childhood did a parent ever help me with a project. I was always embarrassed--I never had the assistance of my parents experience in trying different types of media and strategy in writing or artsy projects. And that burned. So, now, with my kids projects--I encourage them to explore different ideas. Many of them are ideas I saw other kids use on their projects when I was a kid. Clay, glue, construction paper ( my parents were so anti involvement they would tell me that the only thing they would buy was crayons-so I had to make my own construction paper by coloring blank paper--not kidding you), paper mache', crayons, markers, colored pencils, paints, etc. I encourage them to try different techniques. They have shelves loaded with the weights of artistic media, and scrapbooking materials.

So, do I cheat now and again and go buy store bought materials like the plastic animals, and Indians for the project--yup. I sure do. But I also put a lot of time into sitting with my kids and teaching them how to plan out a project--figure out what materials and supplies they need. We pre-shop and figure out how much it will cost--what we can't afford and then re-strategize to make up for that--and then we go buy--and start working on the project. My kids get the attention, and materials they need to make projects that appear to look as good as the amount of time they are given to do the project. I always tell them, if a teacher gives you a month to do a project--you sure as heck better not turn in something that looks like a piece of dooooo.

And yeah, I bought the mission kit for my daughter--knowing full well it was way bigger than the size limits the teachers had given her--so she used it as a sketching guide and had to use math and a ruler to make the cardoard pieces half of what the original foam pieces were.

So, yeah, even though I'm a single mom with a single income, I do spend a great deal of time and involvement in my kids schooling. I only wish I could afford to home school---but, that's not gonna happen.

So, when I b--- about time and money on the kids projects--it's because I do expect my kids to prove to the teachers that the amount of time given on that project was used to present a project worthy of the time supplied.

The rest of the arguments are immaterial as far as I'm concerned. Californians are the ones who vote for politicians and school board superintendants who vote for the types of school books and school grade requirements for each student both in education-and time spent in the classrooms. If your not happy with the schooling your kid gets then stop voting for the people holding back education in California.

[palango]

If your not happy with the schooling your kid gets then stop voting for the people holding back education in California.

They all suck. They have taken special interest $$, lotto $$, casino $$ and have not made a damn difference in education. I see CA Dept of Education like Bush. Both complete failures. At least with Bush, there is only about 11-12 months left. The 8th largest economy of the world and where Immigrants from all over the world come here in droves to pursue their dreams, BUT they get educated somewhere else.

There is still so much $$ to be made here in CA as immigrants will continue to come here. Doctors, Engineers, Nurses, IT folks, etc. yet, the educational system as broken as ever.

[DalOwnerX3]

Don't forget that a lot of the immigrants have succussful children who went throught the same educational system as the rest of the Californians. I went to high school in Monta Vista in Cupertino, home of Apple Computers. While I was there, I was just a handful of Asian students there. Last I heard, the majority are Asian and the Caucasian kids attending the school are just giving up because they can't compete against the Asian kids.

While the school system isn't the best, people still manage to have bright kids graduate from it.