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#61 Revolutionist

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Aug 22 2008, 01:07 PM) View Post
I agree with you about the volunteering. I've already told my daughter's teacher that we parents are there for her -- she can use us to teach small groups, teach reading, whatever she needs.

I am hardly going to go into the principal's office and complain about the two 3rd grade teachers who described how the huge class will hinder their efforts. You know, when someone is as upset as these teachers are, I don't run to report them and get them in trouble. That doesn't sound like a very compassionate response. I try to understand where they are coming from. What I hear is teachers who feel betrayed, who pride themselves on doing an excellent job, and who have a huge fear that they will not be able to meet the standard to which they hold themselves. --Kind of like when your boss does something that makes it impossible for you to do at A+ job at work... it is very demoralizing.

BTW, I think my older daughter might have been in the class you are talking about, last year (though I suppose that dynamic is not uncommon). If so, THAT teacher was in tears last year, too, feeling that she was failing the rest of the students because one high-need kid was demanding ALL of her attention all day long. All the parents agreed that the kid should have had an aide or been taken out of the mainstream classroom, but... maybe there's no money for that, either?? I don't know.

It's tough to see teachers with this level of frustration.


I know I wasn't there
but to be honest, what I hear in your report are simply people who are pissed off because they have to work harder.

Bottom line is, from what I can tell, every school, every principal is going above and beyond in providing additional help and resources to the affected 3rd grade teachers. I can honestly say about our school (NSE) that the children will not be slighted or receive an inferior education in anyway. And yes, I do have a 3rd grader. And I am confident the story is the same at the rest of the city's elementary schools.


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#62 stacycam

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:21 PM

I agree that the kids will be fine. Of course, it would be better if the class was smaller, but that ship has sailed. Of course I work with my daughter at home, of course I volunteer in the classroom as much as I can. Of course the teachers will be working harder, and be bitter about it - just like anyone else who has extra work thrust on them through no fault of their own. I am just pissed off that our school board chose to cut CSR and the libraries. I am frustrated to learn that the school board is so willing to sacrifice our kids' education. They can blame Arnold, but he left it in the hands of the school boards to make good decisions. Other districts' boards did make good decisions - ours didn't.

Since this is about the school board candidates, I just hope that no incumbents are re-elected, and we find new board members with different priorities. We need some people who are willing to think outside the box and come up with new ideas. WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS NOT WORKING - SO CHANGE IT!

#63 bordercolliefan

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:24 PM

QUOTE(Revolutionist @ Aug 22 2008, 01:14 PM) View Post
Bottom line is, from what I can tell, every school, every principal is going above and beyond in providing additional help and resources to the affected 3rd grade teachers. I can honestly say about our school (NSE) that the children will not be slighted or receive an inferior education in anyway.


I'm at NSE, too. WHAT additional help and resources? I haven't heard of anything that the principal/school is providing to our 3rd grade teachers.

I wish I had your confidence that our children's education won't be compromised. Come to think of it, I thought I heard that the kids even have less instructional time. I didn't get the full details, but it had something to do with giving the teachers adequate prep time -- so they've put the kids in an extra long P.E., or extra recess, or something like that. Sorry I don't have the details -- that just flew by me amidst all the other information.


#64 Revolutionist

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Aug 22 2008, 01:24 PM) View Post
I'm at NSE, too. WHAT additional help and resources? I haven't heard of anything that the principal/school is providing to our 3rd grade teachers.

I wish I had your confidence that our children's education won't be compromised. Come to think of it, I thought I heard that the kids even have less instructional time. I didn't get the full details, but it had something to do with giving the teachers adequate prep time -- so they've put the kids in an extra long P.E., or extra recess, or something like that. Sorry I don't have the details -- that just flew by me amidst all the other information.


shoulda come to the PTA meeting Weds night, he talked about a number of them. smile.gif


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#65 bordercolliefan

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE(Revolutionist @ Aug 22 2008, 01:46 PM) View Post
shoulda come to the PTA meeting Weds night, he talked about a number of them. smile.gif


Hey, you should have come to Back to School Night... then you probably wouldn't be so sanguine about 3rd grade.

Come on... ya gotta share if you're using it to bolster your argument.

#66 Barb J

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 12:52 PM

Bordercollie: I wouldn't be running to the principal to "tell on the teacher" I would be running to the principal to get my kid out of her classroom! How unprofessional her behavior was - if she is going into the year complaining that she can't do her job, chances are THAT SHE WON'T DO HER JOB!

I am very compassionate when it comes to teachers, I have my degree in Child Development and planned to become a teacher until I figured out that I don't really like children (other than my own of course, and in case you can't tell, my tongue is planted firmly inside my cheek smile.gif ! I have a very good relationship with most of the staff at my daughters school and I can't imagine any one of them behaving in such a way. Whether they feel that way or not, you do not take that to the parents. It's just unprofessional and unnecessary - there is nothing that can be done about elimination of CSR, so you deal with it! You dont' complain about it, you don't cry to your parents. You just figure it out and move on.

I hope she can get it together to give your child her best efforts.
Barb

#67 Revolutionist

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 01:54 PM

QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Aug 22 2008, 01:49 PM) View Post
Hey, you should have come to Back to School Night... then you probably wouldn't be so sanguine about 3rd grade.

Come on... ya gotta share if you're using it to bolster your argument.


I was at back to school night.
the PTA meeting was between lower and upper grade BTS sessions in the ampitheater.

Since you are at NSE, you will know that none of the 3rd grade classes have 32 kids in them. They have 29. (no, that is not an invitation to move schools.... I know what some of you are thinking biggrin.gif )

Mr. Peterson went out and secured 2 grad students from Sac State. They need to do intern hours for their master's programs, and they'll be spending those hours with the kids.

Additional tutoring help
Additional parental help
and more.

Really, you should get involved with PTA. We're a bunch of parents and teachers who are here to help the students succeed. And there are plenty of opportunities. I am somewhat dismayed that you would come and grandstand on the forums, but not come to the PTA meeting to find out what the school is doing, and how you can help.


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#68 supermom

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE(Revolutionist @ Aug 22 2008, 02:54 PM) View Post
I was at back to school night.
the PTA meeting was between lower and upper grade BTS sessions in the ampitheater.

Since you are at NSE, you will know that none of the 3rd grade classes have 32 kids in them. They have 29. (no, that is not an invitation to move schools.... I know what some of you are thinking biggrin.gif )

Mr. Peterson went out and secured 2 grad students from Sac State. They need to do intern hours for their master's programs, and they'll be spending those hours with the kids.

Additional tutoring help
Additional parental help
and more.

Really, you should get involved with PTA. We're a bunch of parents and teachers who are here to help the students succeed. And there are plenty of opportunities. I am somewhat dismayed that you would come and grandstand on the forums, but not come to the PTA meeting to find out what the school is doing, and how you can help.

Sorry, I don't trust grad students and interns (at least not all the time)

When my kid was in 1st grade he came with a note from a tutor (grad student)
that said,

"pleaze haff yer son read this book with you agian".

#69 Barb J

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE(Revolutionist @ Aug 22 2008, 02:54 PM) View Post
Really, you should get involved with PTA. We're a bunch of parents and teachers who are here to help the students succeed. And there are plenty of opportunities. I am somewhat dismayed that you would come and grandstand on the forums, but not come to the PTA meeting to find out what the school is doing, and how you can help.


As an active PTA member, I would like to say THANKS!!! I couldn't have said it better myself!

Barb

#70 bordercolliefan

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 03:24 PM

QUOTE(Revolutionist @ Aug 22 2008, 02:54 PM) View Post
Since you are at NSE, you will know that none of the 3rd grade classes have 32 kids in them. They have 29. (no, that is not an invitation to move schools.... I know what some of you are thinking biggrin.gif )

Really, you should get involved with PTA. We're a bunch of parents and teachers who are here to help the students succeed. And there are plenty of opportunities. I am somewhat dismayed that you would come and grandstand on the forums, but not come to the PTA meeting to find out what the school is doing, and how you can help.


I find it funny that we receive such disparate information. My daughter's teacher said she has 32. My daughter clarified that her class has 31, with one additional student coming at the beginning of September. As an additional data point, my daughter is #29, and I know she is not alphabetically/numerically last in her classroom (a fact she was very pleased with this year, since she WAS last in second grade!)

As for the PTA, I'm sure it is a fine organization. My preference is to be directly in my daughters' classrooms, since that is where I feel I can make the most impact. I am not a SAHM, so I don't have the luxury of a multitude of volunteer commitments all around the school (that is, in addition to my two daughters' classes and my Brownie troop).

BTW, I think the term "grandstand" is very inflammatory. It appears that you and I disagree on whether having 32 in a class will materially harm our children's education. I continue to believe it will, but I would certainly be delighted if both I and the teachers are proved wrong! But regardless of which one of us is right, I think it is out of line for you to suggest (1) that I am not entitled to express my opinion on this forum (isn't public discussion the essence of democracy?) and/or (2) that I don't do enough for my kids or their school. I feel sure that such personal attacks and the thinly-veiled "I'm a better parent than you!" attitude will not garner you more members for your PTA!

I don't mean to pick on you but I think that the tendency of moms especially to compete with each other over "who's doing more" is very destructive.

#71 Revolutionist

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Aug 22 2008, 04:24 PM) View Post
I find it funny that we receive such disparate information. My daughter's teacher said she has 32. My daughter clarified that her class has 31, with one additional student coming at the beginning of September. As an additional data point, my daughter is #29, and I know she is not alphabetically/numerically last in her classroom (a fact she was very pleased with this year, since she WAS last in second grade!)

As for the PTA, I'm sure it is a fine organization. My preference is to be directly in my daughters' classrooms, since that is where I feel I can make the most impact. I am not a SAHM, so I don't have the luxury of a multitude of volunteer commitments all around the school (that is, in addition to my two daughters' classes and my Brownie troop).

BTW, I think the term "grandstand" is very inflammatory. It appears that you and I disagree on whether having 32 in a class will materially harm our children's education. I continue to believe it will, but I would certainly be delighted if both I and the teachers are proved wrong! But regardless of which one of us is right, I think it is out of line for you to suggest (1) that I am not entitled to express my opinion on this forum (isn't public discussion the essence of democracy?) and/or (2) that I don't do enough for my kids or their school. I feel sure that such personal attacks and the thinly-veiled "I'm a better parent than you!" attitude will not garner you more members for your PTA!

I don't mean to pick on you but I think that the tendency of moms especially to compete with each other over "who's doing more" is very destructive.


I am sorry you feel that way. I am not questioning your mom-ness, or implying I am a better parent. We all have our methods, our strengths and weaknesses, and our likes and dislikes. Neither did I say it is inappropriate for you to express your opinions on the boards. Heck, I do it all the time.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, there is lots of emotion around this particular issue, and it rears its heads in ugly ways. I am built a little differently I suppose: Here is where we are.. how do we make it better is my usualy modus operandi.

Perhaps "grandstanding" was a bit strong of a word choice, and for that I apologize.

You did miss a splendid opportunity to hear first hand what the school, the principal, and others are doing about this issue (and the other biggy, the library).

We all want the same things for our kids. And it is unfortunate that the legislature has put us in this predicament.


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#72 bordercolliefan

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE(Revolutionist @ Aug 22 2008, 04:44 PM) View Post
I am sorry you feel that way. I am not questioning your mom-ness, or implying I am a better parent. We all have our methods, our strengths and weaknesses, and our likes and dislikes. Neither did I say it is inappropriate for you to express your opinions on the boards. Heck, I do it all the time.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, there is lots of emotion around this particular issue, and it rears its heads in ugly ways. I am built a little differently I suppose: Here is where we are.. how do we make it better is my usualy modus operandi.

Perhaps "grandstanding" was a bit strong of a word choice, and for that I apologize.

You did miss a splendid opportunity to hear first hand what the school, the principal, and others are doing about this issue (and the other biggy, the library).

We all want the same things for our kids. And it is unfortunate that the legislature has put us in this predicament.


Thanks, I appreciate your words. I didn't mean to sound too critical.

I agree that we all want the same thing for our kids. I am just less quick than many to say, "Well, they told us this is the way it is, so let's just accept it." --Left over from my (brief) college activist days, I guess. It does mean I end up waging some futile battles. smile.gif

I guess now is not the time to reveal my idea that 3rd grade parents organize a strike -- keeping their kids home from school until the school board makes a serious effort to restore funding.

Sigh. Anyway, I'm crossing my fingers that you're right instead of me, and that our kids do great (which we may not know until next year, when we talk to the 4th grade teachers).


#73 Bill Z

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 08:44 PM

QUOTE(supermom @ Aug 22 2008, 03:00 PM) View Post
Sorry, I don't trust grad students and interns (at least not all the time)

When my kid was in 1st grade he came with a note from a tutor (grad student)
that said,

"pleaze haff yer son read this book with you agian".

classic laugh.gif

I cringe whenever I see a school memo with spelling errors
I would rather be Backpacking


#74 awood

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE(bordercolliefan @ Aug 22 2008, 08:58 PM) View Post
I guess now is not the time to reveal my idea that 3rd grade parents organize a strike -- keeping their kids home from school until the school board makes a serious effort to restore funding.


AWESOME IDEA!! Everyone who has a kid in 3rd grade and feels like their kid is being hurt by too many kids in the classroom, PULL THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY! Keep them home and homeschool them until someone starts to take you seriously!! (Or at least until my kid is in 4th grade!! biggrin.gif ) That'll show them whos boss around here. WTH alot of those kids are too young to be in 3rd grade anyway...a year off at home with mommie dearest would do wonders!



#75 rightwingknot

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 03:42 PM

QUOTE(awood @ Aug 25 2008, 01:04 PM) View Post
AWESOME IDEA!! Everyone who has a kid in 3rd grade and feels like their kid is being hurt by too many kids in the classroom, PULL THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY! Keep them home and homeschool them until someone starts to take you seriously!! (Or at least until my kid is in 4th grade!! biggrin.gif ) That'll show them whos boss around here. WTH alot of those kids are too young to be in 3rd grade anyway...a year off at home with mommie dearest would do wonders!

Seriously, do you really think that's constructive? CSR is gone for this year, and we need to move on. A more constructive approach is to elect new board members that will look at the situation honeslty and not be predisposed to any particular agneda.

That person is JoAnne Reinking.

P.S. Do parents know that refusing to send a child to school is punishable by a fine of $1000 (Ed. Code 48293)? Possible jail time (Penal Code 272)?
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

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