99 replies to this topic

[normajean]

$20 on dori !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Parizienne]

EDF,

They didn't ask me whether I wanted them to dump their million into this political issue, darling. I don't agree with some of their choices, yep. But our local union does advocate for my pay and benefits. If they didn't, I'd likely be making minimum wage. So, yes, I am a member. And no, I don't like seeing that my dues are being used for something other than education-related concerns. I don't have any say in what the state union does with the portion of my dues they receive because I have trusted that they will use it to advocate for teachers! I definitely have a problem with when they don't use my money to help my colleagues and me keep our jobs and improve conditions in schools and classrooms.

I know you don't like the FCEA. We've been through that. You and I have found some common ground regarding the CTA, it seems.

Make no mistake, however. I do not wish any bad will on the people who are against Prop 8. I just don't think it should be a CTA priority in a bad budget year.

An aside: I always wanted to be a teacher since the second grade. When I graduated from college, I was told I'd have to work a year without pay to get certified, so I realized I couldn't be a teacher. I just couldn't afford it. After I got married and experienced two careers and taking time off to stay home with my children, I revisited the idea of becoming a teacher when my kids were old enough for preschool. I had a husband who could support the year of student teaching while I became certified, I was able to finish the credential requirements. Now they have an paid internship option which helps those who can't afford to student teach with no salary to become certified.

I agree the structure and tactics of unions are problematic, and the national and state level unions do overstep in my opinion. I am dismayed by the lack of advocation for teachers on the part of the CTA in the recent budget crisis. Where were they? Driving a bus around the state with a banner on the side that said something like "Save our Schools." That was pitiful in light of the cuts the governor and legislators were proposing. Maybe I missed it, but they were conspicuously soft-spoken for the magnitude of the problem.

But -- ask yourself this. Would we even need a union if the "people" of their own collective volition were willing to pay public school teachers competitively with other college-educated professionals? And I am talking about good teachers. I realize there are bad apples out there. I understand why people take issue with poor performers. That's another issue. I don't think we should reward ineffective teachers -- and most people agree.

I love Dori's suggestion, BTW. ;-) Real estate licenses are a dime a dozen. Not an easy test, I know. Lots of regulations and stuff. But - teaching isn't easy, and certification isn't handed over to any Tom Dick or Harriet who wants it.



Pari.

QUOTE from EDF:

Well... she's a member... and she did nothing to stop that... just like all the other teachers I have encountered over the years... they hate their union in a private conversation with you... but nothing changes and they go along.... to get along...
[/quote]

[Folsom Guy]

the point of this thread was to get more $$$ to the schools here...

I pointed out why I am against it... and I have several reasons...

one of them is that the stinking teachers and their unions don't really have our kids education as their 1st priority....

their support of Prop 8 is just one example...

Pari while disavowing the CTA's one million dollar contribution to th "no on 8" campaign is a joke... because she said unions do what they do...

Well... she's a member... and she did nothing to stop that... just like all the other teachers I have encountered over the years... they hate their union in a private conversation with you... but nothing changes and they go along.... to get along...

What a weird logic....

By that analogy, we have a huge bailout for Wall Street darlings...that 80% of us, including yourself, oppose...so, I get mad at you - the taxpayer whose funds enabled it?

I think, Folsom teachers are doing a great job and the school scores prove it, property values prove it. We are all enjoying the fruits of good schools....yes it needs a combination of teachers, kids and parents to make it all happen...but, teachers are an integral part of the success of Folsom schools....

[tessieca]

And go to Folsom High or Vista del Lago High....there are relatively fewer students in 11th or higher needing Alg II, implying most get it done by 10th grade.

It seems some of those taking Alg I at middle school are retaking it at high school, so not getting to Alg II by 10th. My daughter is taking it as a sophomore, and it seems there are still relatively few of them who are not 11-12 graders.

The problem with the Algebra I mandate is not that kids shouldn't be allowed the chance to take it. They absolutely should, and one of my kids took it in 6th grade (thank goodness it was offered at SMS). But, several still struggle getting through pre-algebra concepts in middle school and really need to take Algebra I in high school. Also, the system hasn't been set up to push algebraic principles down through the elementary levels in order to make kids competent to take Alg. I by 8th grade. So, it will take a change in standards at each grade level (dictated by state), change in materials and textbooks (dictated by state), and probably some teacher training as well. It can't be done in one year without adding resources. That's the gripe. The State Board is being sued to overturn that decision.

[Folsom Guy]

It seems some of those taking Alg I at middle school are retaking it at high school, so not getting to Alg II by 10th. My daughter is taking it as a sophomore, and it seems there are still relatively few of them who are not 11-12 graders.

The problem with the Algebra I mandate is not that kids shouldn't be allowed the chance to take it. They absolutely should, and one of my kids took it in 6th grade (thank goodness it was offered at SMS). But, several still struggle getting through pre-algebra concepts in middle school and really need to take Algebra I in high school. Also, the system hasn't been set up to push algebraic principles down through the elementary levels in order to make kids competent to take Alg. I by 8th grade. So, it will take a change in standards at each grade level (dictated by state), change in materials and textbooks (dictated by state), and probably some teacher training as well. It can't be done in one year without adding resources. That's the gripe. The State Board is being sued to overturn that decision.

See your point...

Unfunded mandates can be pesky.

I don't have issue with the mandate, but, think wud OK to set out a 5 year goal or something to make it happen....with all the ducks lined up in the row before pulling the trigger so-to-speak...

But, back to the topic that Pari raised, given that schools do not have a choice of cutting or dismissing stiudents when economy sours, there has to be new thinking on how we fund the schools.

And it is also fair to look at all the line items in the FCUSD budget and figure out a way to make sure money is being spent efficiently.

But, as a society, we've gotta ensure minimum level of funding for Folsom schools to function properly without having to cut bare essential services during budget downturns....a lot is at stake in terms of our quality of life here in Folsom.

[Dustyzz]

Sorry, operator head space problem happened... see the text of my reply below.

[Dustyzz]

See your point...

Unfunded mandates can be pesky.

I don't have issue with the mandate, but, think wud OK to set out a 5 year goal or something to make it happen....with all the ducks lined up in the row before pulling the trigger so-to-speak...

But, back to the topic that Pari raised, given that schools do not have a choice of cutting or dismissing stiudents when economy sours, there has to be new thinking on how we fund the schools.

And it is also fair to look at all the line items in the FCUSD budget and figure out a way to make sure money is being spent efficiently.

But, as a society, we've gotta ensure minimum level of funding for Folsom schools to function properly without having to cut bare essential services during budget downturns....a lot is at stake in terms of our quality of life here in Folsom.

Since I currently have a child in the Folsom public school system, I would love to pay the teachers a "competitive" salary, I would also love to have a "20 to 1" or fewer student to teacher classroom ratio, I would love to have every school staffed with the best instructors money can buy... and I think all that is doable, but we MUST reform the broken system that we have today BEFORE you ask the tax payers to shell out even more money. We have far too many bureaucrats int the public education system that add nothing to the equation other than collecting a paycheck and ensuring the status quo is maintained. We have far too many special interest mandates foisted upon an already over burdened tax base, and lastly the school system is not the place for implementing social experimentation. The first and only mission of the public shcool system should be education, and NOT be a proxy for the department of health and welfare. If you fix just these issues, the local school system would have more than enough monies available to it... IMHO until there is some credible attempt to reign in this ever expanding, capitol consuming beast known as public education , keep your hands off my pocketbook.

[Folsom Guy]

Since I currently have a child in the Folsom public school system, I would love to pay the teachers a "competitive" salary, I would also love to have a "20 to 1" or fewer student to teacher classroom ratio, I would love to have every school staffed with the best instructors money can buy... and I think all that is doable, but we MUST reform the broken system that we have today BEFORE you ask the tax payers to shell out even more money. We have far too many bureaucrats int the public education system that add nothing to the equation other than collecting a paycheck and ensuring the status quo is maintained. We have far too many special interest mandates foisted upon an already over burdened tax base, and lastly the school system is not the place for implementing social experimentation. The first and only mission of the public shcool system should be education, and NOT be a proxy for the department of health and welfare. If you fix just these issues, the local school system would have more than enough monies available to it... IMHO until there is some credible attempt to reign in this ever expanding, capitol consuming beast known as public education , keep your hands off my pocketbook.

All very valid points...should be done...but, there has to be some reality as well

Say your kid falls sick, slips and falls down....with both parents working, may not be possible to get hold of you ASAP.....then?

[EDF]

All very valid points...should be done...but, there has to be some reality as well

Say your kid falls sick, slips and falls down....with both parents working, may not be possible to get hold of you ASAP.....then?

Yes....yes...

This is exactly why I can't stand "educrats"...

You see, you agree with the previous post about the over burdened system of the "education establishment".. They want to "provide more services" so they will be perceived to be "more professional"...

Did you know that most professors in colleges and universities don't give much credit to a "teaching degree" in say math...? because their degree is more about "teaching" and not about math...

The education teaching establishment started this trend in the early 20th century... because after all... the basics are "reading, writing and arithmetic"... and now...? well... we've got "diversity training"... social studies that promote liberal and gay lifestyles...

They also get involved with allowing children that are supposed to be in class to leave and get an abortion without letting the parents know. The CTA was against the proposition to require "parental notification" which to me means they do not respect "parental rights" and they therefore look down upon "parents"... BECAUSE AFTER ALL... THEY ARE THE PROFESSIONALS...!!!

You know who teachers are most afraid of...? it's the Parents...

So you just reinforce the notion that while the lady posting before you had valid points... you will always find a "but" in there....

IN other words... you will always "default" to the education establishment point of view when they have largely failed our kids...

The reason Folsom schools are so good....? is because of "parental involvement"... and the fact that this population is highly educated.... we "demand" performance from our kids AND our teachers...

You know something...? when I was a brat in school lo those many years ago... when I was dressed down by a teacher for being a jerk in class... I always hoped she would never call my parents, because I would have gotten the sh*t slapped out of me...

back then... a teacher could slap a kid... and I got slapped... and I deserved it... but even if I got slapped... I prayed the teacher never told my parents because they would have backed the teacher...

Now days... Teachers have lost so much respect because AS A GROUP... they promote so much liberal social change and get themselves involved in "family functions" that they are out of bounds... and because of that... they are therefore losing support of Parents and Taxpayers...

Why do they ask all those "personal questions" on surveys in the first few days of school now... what "education" benefit is derived from that...?

So the only way I know how to stop this...? is to just "withhold" the money... the less they get... the more they have to focus on the real issue and that is the "education" of the little brats of our town and not on their "family circumstances" and "other issues"...

But what do I know... I'm just your average dime a dozen realtor who really has no business "critizing" a "real profession"... Teaching.... even though I employ some people and managae several million dollars of real estate for other people.... naw... don't count me as being a "professional"... after all "anybody can do it"....

Now get back to me....with some A game....

[FolsomInfo]

I wouldn't support a tax increase. What about partnerships with local companies? Why doesn't Intel give more to the schools? I know they do a lot, but I think they could do more. We have a ton of local companies with great resources, why not leverage our community?

I also would never ask teachers to take a pay cut, they barely make enough as it is!

[EDF]

I wouldn't support a tax increase. What about partnerships with local companies? Why doesn't Intel give more to the schools? I know they do a lot, but I think they could do more. We have a ton of local companies with great resources, why not leverage our community?

I also would never ask teachers to take a pay cut, they barely make enough as it is!

I think you'd be amazed at what they make for a "9 month out 12" per year... so if you were to figure it out on a 12 month basis...? they are paid pretty well...

They like to always point out how much more other states pay then California... but they never point out that we are in the top 10 in pay and benefits to the teachers of this state...

INTEL does a lot not just for our schools but others as well...

There are partnerships in town...

and if it gets down to the point that they the School District said we needed money... I'd rather have a huge garage sale/bake sale... or volunteers to help out... I think you'd have a lot of good responses that would make it easier for the teachers to do their jobs...

All we want is for them to "ask"... nicely... and not just take it from us in the form of a "tax increase"...

isn't that a better idea...? it promotes more "community involvement" as well... and that's the idea isn't it...?

[Parizienne]

EDF ...


PLEASE check your facts, dear. You often use information which is either incorrect or a result of your misunderstandings. I've corrected you about the teacher salary issue elsewhere in the past, so I won't belabor it now. In a nutshell, we get paid for ten months. The salary you see posted on the website is for ten months. There are two months during the summer where we are not paid. We can opt to have money taken out of each paycheck during the year to cover the summer, and most of us do that. Bottom line - it's not a paid vacation, hon.


Back on the original topic of how we can work together to address the state budget shortfalls affecting Folsom schools:

Interesting -- it looks like some people in American River Canyon are meeting at Davies Park tomorrow (Sunday 10/26) at 4:00 to discuss the loss of 3rd grade CSR and potentially more cuts for next year. They are mostly Sundahl parents, it looks like, but I think they share the same concerns that others have shared over how the district chose to meet the budget.



QUOTE from EDF . . .
I think you'd be amazed at what they make for a "9 month out 12" per year... so if you were to figure it out on a 12 month basis...? they are paid pretty well...

[awood]

I also would never ask teachers to take a pay cut, they barely make enough as it is!

Whooooo Nelly! That is what they WANT you to believe and I ain't drinking the Kool Aid. You take a look at any teachers salary and divide it out to an hourly wage, with the benefits they make....and you will be hard pressed to tell me that is in the neighborhood of a "living wage". Now every teacher will TELL you that they work long hours (they seldom mention that they have "planning" hours contractually built in though) but I would submimt that IME EVERY professional has hours beyond their work day that are required to do their job well!

Soooo Simple math says:
182 days/year X 8 hours/day = 1,456 hrs/year
1,456 hrs/year X $20/hr wage (equates to a $40k/yr job for most new graduates) = $29,120
Where as the lowest accredited teacher by contract makes $41k/year WITH full benefits including 10 sick days, retirement and full insurance.

So working the math backwards, a newly accredited teacher makes a MINIMUM of $28.15/hr. WITH insurance, benefits AND a union that guarantees that you will always have your job (unless you really screw up) and never have to take a pay cut regardless of how bad things are for the rest of the tax paying base.

As a point of reference, if you are my age and have been teaching since graduation, and taking classes to stay current (as I have had to do) I could be making about 30% less ($80k) as a teacher and working less then 1/2 of the time and not worrying about the economy.

P.S. I have a brother 11 yrs. younger than I who is at the top end of the scale as he has gotten his masters and Phd in the 12 years since graduating from college. But he is the first to admit that he gets paid much more than he earns and life is very easy.

[awood]

PLEASE check your facts, dear. ... Bottom line - it's not a paid vacation, hon.

Are you working? NO
Are you getting paid for the time you work? YES
Bottom line - It is vacation.

[tessieca]

Soooo Simple math says:
182 days/year X 8 hours/day = 1,456 hrs/year
1,456 hrs/year X $20/hr wage (equates to a $40k/yr job for most new graduates) = $29,120

By contract, it's only about 6 hours a day for elementary and 7 for high school. There is a 15 or 20 minute before and after school requirement as well.