190 replies to this topic

[mac_convert]

I am not a parent but think an open dialogue needs to be established with children so they will come to you when they're in trouble. None of us are perfect and while I can say I never ran with the alcohol and drug crowd I'm not perfect and wasn't as a high schooler either. I imagine it is heart breaking to get a call from your child asking for a ride because they have had too much of "something." Praise them for calling and that you will be there for them but there will be a discussion when both sides have had time to think before the conversation becomes heated with emotions. It would be devastating to get a wake up call from the police!

As to the question of repeatedly picking up kids that is when you need to consider a substance abuse problem and reach out for help. No matter what you WANT your child to call YOU for help!

One question: if one is repeatedly picking up kids, how effective is the prevention?

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

These kids made a choice, they deserve what they get and I just don't understand the need for leniency.

Who suggested these teens be treated with leniency? It certain wasn't me.

[EAH]

I was responding to your post that was suggestive of condonment. Your post was lean on preventation and more on (mild) reaction.

Don't do this, but if you do, call us and we'll bring you home safely. That your kids turned out well is besides the point. And it's good that you were never tested. But again, like I said, everyone has different lines and boundaries.

My previous post pretty much sums up my experience of the two parenting philosophies. I can tell you for a fact that many of my deceased friends parents also held the same beliefs as you. There was no area of grey, it was black and white- Don't ever drink and do drugs. No dialogue about what if and no safe exit strategy. It all fit in with their belief in presenting the picture of a perfect family and no child of theirs would dare tarnish the family reputation. So sad. You have to live in the real world. You have to hope and educate for the best but prepare for the worst.

[tsukiji]

Well . . . so you think if these kids all died - that'd be what they deserve. I guess we know what type of person you are too. I wonder if you'd have the same opinion of a close family member of yours was in a similar situation . . . Do you have kids?

Not my decision -- that's God's.

If these kids had crashed into people killed them, what would your position be? Is their behavior more acceptable because they only injured themselves?

If a member of your family killed someone, how would you react? Would you harbor them or turn them in? How about if it was only property damage? Does it matter if it was a pure accident or if it was because they were under the influence of drugs?

Is the impact the foul? No impact, no foul?

[sckfc]

I just found out that my daughter also knows the girl that was in the car. Without voicing my opinion on the nature of the accident or the events leading up to it, I have a hard time understanding how adults (most of which are probably parents themselves) are 'able' to bad mouth CHILDREN that are in the hospital fighting for their lives. I think all should just be thankful that they didn't hurt anyone else or that their own children have avoided being in such a situation and leave it at that.
My thoughts and prayers are also with the parents of all 4 children....because even the child that was driving (and like I said, leaving my opinion of the accident out of this) is suffering, and we can only hope that he learns a MAJOR lesson from this and that the other 3 make a speedy and complete recovery.

I completely agree with this. They are children.
And how many of us can say that we never did anything dangerous, reckless or illegal when we were teenagers? If you can, I envy you. I thank God that I made it through my teenage years and hope that I can keep my children smart and safe during theirs.

[knittychick]

Not my decision -- that's God's.

If these kids had crashed into people killed them, what would your position be? Is their behavior more acceptable because they only injured themselves?

If a member of your family killed someone, how would you react? Would you harbor them or turn them in? How about if it was only property damage? Does it matter if it was a pure accident or if it was because they were under the influence of drugs?

Is the impact the foul? No impact, no foul?

I think your questions would be more appropriate if they were placed in a different thread...

[Oldschooler81]

This is a tragedy, and unfortunately for everyone else it's kids like them that make ALL teen drivers look bad by comparison.

I've often thought kids in the 90s and before seemed SO MUCH older than today. It's not just my own age perception either, and I think the reason (which a few people touched upon) is because more parents don't let their kids deal with things or make them responsible for their own actions. I hate generalizations so I'm not suggesting everyone does that, just more often than not. A balance is the best thing, like being involved enough to help them and always be there for guidance, love and discipline....but not so much that they'll be lost on their own. If they're taught good values early on and not brushed off with "because I said so" or something lol, that certainly will influence how they act when they become older.

There's no perfect school for parenting, and when I have kids I'll probably be somewhere inbetween the two extremes. Mine were relatively easy on me compared to most kids, but I think that's only because I never was the type to get in trouble. Dad was more the disciplinarian (I did get spanked or things taken away), but other than being a smart@ss sometimes I never really had many problems. Ironically I was harder as a "kid kid" (like just stupid goofing off things) than in my teen years. It always seemed like common sense to me not to do things like driving like an idiot, drinking, hard partying or acting like those American Pie dudes trying to get l@id. I used to do donuts and burnouts on bumper cars and even shopping carts when I was like 12, just to get it out of my system.

I'm not saying I was a total teachers' pet/goody two shoes or anything, but I think it was simply a part of my personality already, that I wasn't interested in smoking, drinking or otherwise getting crazy. Even then I also wanted to be in a caring relationship than having sex just to have it. I don't know if that's the old soul in me or whatever...but I guess I'm taking the long way to say I know how the basic teen aspects feel (i.e. wanting acceptance, to fit in, to have people think you're cool, being girl crazy or wanting to accomplish things) without going over the line. I hated when people would lump me in with idiot teens though, just because of my age.

For the record I think most teens (like anyone) are good people and smart enough, it's just a matter of not always thinking before they act. They're impulsive and there's strength in numbers, always wanting to show off for your buddies or for some girl. When I did it it was nothing more than telling some stupid joke or commenting in a situation, but I do agree one reason they can be obnoxious is from being in cliques together all the time.

[doj_gal]

I completely agree with this. They are children.
And how many of us can say that we never did anything dangerous, reckless or illegal when we were teenagers? If you can, I envy you. I thank God that I made it through my teenage years and hope that I can keep my children smart and safe during theirs.

When I think of children I think 8, 9, 10...they are 16 and 17 years old...Yes they are still minors but these might be the same teens that cook your burgers and watch your children...These teens are near adulthood and should be acting as such. Their parents need to really start buckling down...18 is around the corner...if they make it!!!!!

[tsukiji]

Who suggested these teens be treated with leniency? It certain wasn't me.

Perhaps I misunderstood. From your post, it seemed that your suggested reaction would have been one of disappointment. Perhaps taking away some privileges. A cold scolding and a discussion about the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse.

In my mind, this is criminal behavior and not much different than shooting a gun into the air. Age is not a consideration for me here. That no one else was hurt was just luck.

I realize that I'm of the minority opinion here; perhaps I could be more tolerant and understanding. Be a little more mainstream.

Maybe with most kids, they experiment once, you drive them home, it never happens again and all ends well. But maybe, they experiment once and tragedy happens and innocents get affected.

Ounce of prevention, pound of cure. Yes, I'm that old. And perhaps I'm just not comfortable with mainstream today. To me, texting while driving -- that's a serious discussion. Taking drugs and driving -- that's a whole new level.

I'm sorry if my position and perspectives seem harsh. I feared that I would be the exception. I'll take my leave of this topic since I've nothing valuable to add.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

Perhaps I misunderstood. From your post, it seemed that your suggested reaction would have been one of disappointment. Perhaps taking away some privileges. A cold scolding and a discussion about the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse.

Yes, you misread what I wrote, missed a few key points, and injected your own. I do, however, understand, agree with, and appreciate the passion behind your comments. Efforts toward prevention is only one part of the solution, but it is a critical part. When situations like this current accident occur, I and many other people, go into a mode of sharing what we've done to try to prevent similar situations. It doesn't mean we don't follow through with consequences when needed. Fortunately, the efforts toward prevention have worked in our home and that was my point. It doesn't always work and it isn't always the parents' fault when teens get into trouble.

[doj_gal]

Perhaps I misunderstood. From your post, it seemed that your suggested reaction would have been one of disappointment. Perhaps taking away some privileges. A cold scolding and a discussion about the dangers of alcohol or drug abuse.

In my mind, this is criminal behavior and not much different than shooting a gun into the air. Age is not a consideration for me here. That no one else was hurt was just luck.

I realize that I'm of the minority opinion here; perhaps I could be more tolerant and understanding. Be a little more mainstream.

Maybe with most kids, they experiment once, you drive them home, it never happens again and all ends well. But maybe, they experiment once and tragedy happens and innocents get affected.

Ounce of prevention, pound of cure. Yes, I'm that old. And perhaps I'm just not comfortable with mainstream today. To me, texting while driving -- that's a serious discussion. Taking drugs and driving -- that's a whole new level.

I'm sorry if my position and perspectives seem harsh. I feared that I would be the exception. I'll take my leave of this topic since I've nothing valuable to add.

Great post!!!

There was a post a few months back about a lady whom did approximately the same thing and people were calling for her death. While I do not want these teens to die, there actions need to be punished.

I lost my best friend at 19. He was 18 and he and two friends decided to drink, drive and get on top of the vehicle and truck surf. Well he died when the driver lost control and flipped the vehicle into a ditch. My friends parents were easy parents and let him do pretty much whatever he wanted. By this time, I was in the Military but still took his death very badly. To this day I think about the life he could have had and if we would still be friends, as I am sure that we would.

This is fear is why I am so harsh on parents and teens whom act like idiots. You have to be involved. You have to keep them busy with activities that mature them and teach them right from wrong. Otherwise, they will be lead astray be the bad influences of the world. I knew as a teen, I was always so busy with school, choir, ROTC, sports or work that I did not have lots of time to go out and party. Keep 'em busy and keep 'em safe...as my mom as said. If they are sooo tired from working their tails off during the summer...the more likely they will be in bed...rather than boozin' druggin and illegally driving. I plan to do the same thing with my son!

[Oldschooler81]

Good points. I'm not saying every teen who gets out of control has irresponsible parents, but I agree that maybe if they had been more involved in their lives, that destructive behavior (or the desire to do it) never would've happened in the first place. I'm not a huge "punishment" fan, but people of any age need to learn responsibility for their own actions. Having to do an action I think is way more effective than spanking/corporal, but I won't get into that again.

People you hang out with tend to influence your behavior and thinking, so I definitely agree having them involved in positive activities they enjoy is a great way to get them on the right path. IF they make friends THAT way, that makes a difference too. I wish I'd gotten more involved in theatre or something creative in elementary school, I was too shy until HS to really get into that. Although I did journalism as an elective in Junior High and loved it.

Like I was saying before about teens seeming so much more immature/younger these days... there was a 17 year old dude in 1994 in my complex in Orangevale who lived with his mom. He was a nice guy to me and stuff, and he seemed pretty adult. Still a high school kid but I recall he had a job and from my memory just seemed fairly responsible. I used to hear about emancipated minors on talk shows back then too, so tehre just seemed to be a desire to grow up.

Compare that with today, it seems like the exact opposite. Humanity doesn't change that much in 15 years lol, so it must be their living environments. I see alot of college aged people whose parents just can't let go. "Kids" almost seems to extend up to like 22 now, and I'm not sure that's a good thing!

[Jayel]

My boyfriend lives in the house adjacent to the lot, and I was parked in front of the lot an hour before the crash. I shudder when I think about what might have happened if I didn't leave as early as I did, if we had stood outside talking an hour later, or if the car crashed into his house while he was downstairs.

It is tragic that these teens suffered as they did, it's tragic to anyone who suffers like this. But the problem is, I shouldn't have to shudder about those thoughts because this should never have happened. I'd say the culprit is partly parents, partly peer pressure, mostly idiotic thinking.

I'm 17 years old and I have never drank anything more than a few sips at the dinner table, I've never touched drugs. I do not because of my faith, but also because I know the crushing disappointment I'd feel from my parents and friends. That's worth more to me than some random kid's opinion of me. But I do know my fair share of peer pressure, and it's powerful. But there comes a point where you either know not to drive under the influence, or you don't. These kids have definitely sat through Don't Do Drugs/Don't Drink and Drive seminars through school or someplace else, but they chose not to listen, they chose to disobey their parents who have probably told them not to all their lives. They chose to get in the car, they chose to drive without a license, they chose to inebriate themselves beyond control. This incidence should never be referred to as an accident. Accidents aren't chosen.

[Redone]

My boyfriend lives in the house adjacent to the lot, and I was parked in front of the lot an hour before the crash. I shudder when I think about what might have happened if I didn't leave as early as I did, if we had stood outside talking an hour later, or if the car crashed into his house while he was downstairs.

It is tragic that these teens suffered as they did, it's tragic to anyone who suffers like this. But the problem is, I shouldn't have to shudder about those thoughts because this should never have happened. I'd say the culprit is partly parents, partly peer pressure, mostly idiotic thinking.

I'm 17 years old and I have never drank anything more than a few sips at the dinner table, I've never touched drugs. I do not because of my faith, but also because I know the crushing disappointment I'd feel from my parents and friends. That's worth more to me than some random kid's opinion of me. But I do know my fair share of peer pressure, and it's powerful. But there comes a point where you either know not to drive under the influence, or you don't. These kids have definitely sat through Don't Do Drugs/Don't Drink and Drive seminars through school or someplace else, but they chose not to listen, they chose to disobey their parents who have probably told them not to all their lives. They chose to get in the car, they chose to drive without a license, they chose to inebriate themselves beyond control. This incidence should never be referred to as an accident. Accidents aren't chosen.

Thank you.

Someone has to say that driving without a license, illegal drugs, and underage drinking are wrong. Too bad we all had to wait for a 17 year old to set us straight.

I am tired of the "look what I did in school" mentality. Just means you were lucky.

[EAH]

Thank you.

Someone has to say that driving without a license, illegal drugs, and underage drinking are wrong. Too bad we all had to wait for a 17 year old to set us straight.

I am tired of the "look what I did in school" mentality. Just means you were lucky.

I wasn't lucky. I never drove without a license. I never drove drunk and I never drove with someone who was. What I was, was prepared.
Doesn't make it right or acceptable to be drinking underage, but it happens alot, it's a fact of life and minimizing the risks involved is practical. When I was living in Iceland for the summer with relatives at age 15 all the kids drank......right alongside their parents at meals. And it was totally legal as it is in most of Europe. Respect for alcohol was taught and most of the kids drank responsibly.