76 replies to this topic

[Bob]

I think this may be the poll Bob is speaking of. This is back in 2001. I'm wondering how residents in 2010 feel about it.

http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2001/10/15/story6.html

Ducky,

You are awesome! Thanks. However, I am not sure that this is the right poll. Seems a few years too old. There were three polls, all showing similar results. I will check.

The main poll I refer to was an "official" (we paid a lot for it via the City diverting our taxes) pole done by a professional pollster. I have the background info for this, from which the final results were developed. Remember, the City commissioned this poll with the intent of "proving" their position. They failed miserably and hid the pole then lied about its existence. Yes REDONE I have the proof. Those who know me on this forum know I do but put out unsubstantiated information.

Regarding the percentages, poles operate like this:

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you? 97% no, 2% yes , 1% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside? 90% no, 5% yes , 5% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside?
• And they give you ice cream afterward? 80% no, 10% yes , 10% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside?
• And they give you ice cream afterward?
• And they send you to a massage therapist afterward? 70% no, 15% yes , 15% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside?
• And they give you ice cream afterward?
• And they send you to a massage therapist afterward?
• OK no one is actually going to kick you; we are just saying that to “protect” you from someone else who really does want to kick you.
• Are you OK with this now? 60% no, 20% yes , 20% undecided


The fact is, the pole over-promised mitigation and under-represented the ill effects of their planed development to finally get the best numbers they could. But it was still so bad they hid the results and then lied.

Regards,
Bob

[Robert Giacometti]

Ducky,

You are awesome! Thanks. However, I am not sure that this is the right poll. Seems a few years too old. There were three polls, all showing similar results. I will check.

The main poll I refer to was an "official" (we paid a lot for it via the City diverting our taxes) pole done by a professional pollster. I have the background info for this, from which the final results were developed. Remember, the City commissioned this poll with the intent of "proving" their position. They failed miserably and hid the pole then lied about its existence. Yes REDONE I have the proof. Those who know me on this forum know I do but put out unsubstantiated information.

Regarding the percentages, poles operate like this:

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you? 97% no, 2% yes , 1% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside? 90% no, 5% yes , 5% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside?
• And they give you ice cream afterward? 80% no, 10% yes , 10% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside?
• And they give you ice cream afterward?
• And they send you to a massage therapist afterward? 70% no, 15% yes , 15% undecided

Is it OK with you if someone kicks you if -
• They put a pillow under your backside?
• And they give you ice cream afterward?
• And they send you to a massage therapist afterward?
• OK no one is actually going to kick you; we are just saying that to “protect” you from someone else who really does want to kick you.
• Are you OK with this now? 60% no, 20% yes , 20% undecided


The fact is, the pole over-promised mitigation and under-represented the ill effects of their planed development to finally get the best numbers they could. But it was still so bad they hid the results and then lied.

Regards,
Bob

What I can't figure out is why are some allowing themselves to be used? I truly wish I knew if some were just too trusting or gullible or what it is?

I think I understand why some say the things they do, but when those who I think should know better, can't see what is going on, I just scratch my head.

For the life of me, I don't understand why good people who are concerend about our future quality of life are attacking the very messengers trying to enlighten the masses. As you know, having the truth on yor side enables one to remain calm, while some are trying to trip you up.

I can't wait for the day when a majority in this community realize they have been had and elect a majority to the Council who will do what is best for the majority of its citizens, instead of a select few. More importantly expose ALL that has been going on these last 12 plus years.

After this happens, I will watch to see how those who have been so wrong for so long respond!

The good news is more and more are starting to realize what is happening and willing to put forth the efforts to bring about change. That change may not fully happen in this election, but it is in the winds.

A HUGE thanks for all your efforts to keep our community the wonderful place so many (including yourself) worked so hard to make it!

[Steve Heard]

What I can't figure out is why are some allowing themselves to be used? I truly wish I knew if some were just too trusting or gullible or what it is?

I think I understand why some say the things they do, but when those who I think should know better, can't see what is going on, I just scratch my head.

For the life of me, I don't understand why good people who are concerend about our future quality of life are attacking the very messengers trying to enlighten the masses. As you know, having the truth on yor side enables one to remain calm, while some are trying to trip you up.

I can't wait for the day when a majority in this community realize they have been had and elect a majority to the Council who will do what is best for the majority of its citizens, instead of a select few. More importantly expose ALL that has been going on these last 12 plus years.

After this happens, I will watch to see how those who have been so wrong for so long respond!

Robert, if someone has a different belief, opinion, or understanding than you do it does not mean they are being used.

You've made some serious allegations about fraud and corruption among our city council members, and if someone asks to see proof, rather than taking your word as gospel, it means they are being used by someone? Can't they just want proof? You were forever challenging people in the political forum when they'd say things you disagreed with. "Where's the proof?" you would ask.

Now, if someone asks you for proof they are wrong? Being used? Being fed information?

I surely wouldn't arrest, prosecute, ignore, or vote out someone based on rumor, even if several people claim it to be true.

You claim to know the history of everything you accuse the council of, but with your superior knowledge and history, you can't provide proof of the corruption you accuse them of.

When and if you do, I'll say, "Wow, Robert was right! They are corrupt! Let's get rid of the bums!" In the mean time, every election you make the same claims and then tell everyone who doesn't take your word that they are being used.

[Robert Giacometti]

Robert, if someone has a different belief, opinion, or understanding than you do it does not mean they are being used.

You've made some serious allegations about fraud and corruption among our city council members, and if someone asks to see proof, rather than taking your word as gospel, it means they are being used by someone? Can't they just want proof? You were forever challenging people in the political forum when they'd say things you disagreed with. "Where's the proof?" you would ask.

Now, if someone asks you for proof they are wrong? Being used? Being fed information?

I surely wouldn't arrest, prosecute, ignore, or vote out someone based on rumor, even if several people claim it to be true.

You claim to know the history of everything you accuse the council of, but with your superior knowledge and history, you can't provide proof of the corruption you accuse them of.

When and if you do, I'll say, "Wow, Robert was right! They are corrupt! Let's get rid of the bums!" In the mean time, every election you make the same claims and then tell everyone who doesn't take your word that they are being used.

Steve, this is a very inaccurate generalization of me. You are accusing me of things YOU think I am saying. Please provide me with specific examples of what you are saying.

[ducky]

Robert, if someone has a different belief, opinion, or understanding than you do it does not mean they are being used.

You've made some serious allegations about fraud and corruption among our city council members, and if someone asks to see proof, rather than taking your word as gospel, it means they are being used by someone? Can't they just want proof? You were forever challenging people in the political forum when they'd say things you disagreed with. "Where's the proof?" you would ask.

Now, if someone asks you for proof they are wrong? Being used? Being fed information?

I surely wouldn't arrest, prosecute, ignore, or vote out someone based on rumor, even if several people claim it to be true.

You claim to know the history of everything you accuse the council of, but with your superior knowledge and history, you can't provide proof of the corruption you accuse them of.

When and if you do, I'll say, "Wow, Robert was right! They are corrupt! Let's get rid of the bums!" In the mean time, every election you make the same claims and then tell everyone who doesn't take your word that they are being used.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, stevethedad.

[Redone]

Ducky,

You are awesome! Thanks. However, I am not sure that this is the right poll. Seems a few years too old. There were three polls, all showing similar results. I will check.

The main poll I refer to was an "official" (we paid a lot for it via the City diverting our taxes) pole done by a professional pollster. I have the background info for this, from which the final results were developed. Remember, the City commissioned this poll with the intent of "proving" their position. They failed miserably and hid the pole then lied about its existence. Yes REDONE I have the proof. Those who know me on this forum know I do but put out unsubstantiated information.

So, what you're saying is that the poll Ducky found is not the same poll you're refering to ?
And, you don't put out unsubstantiated info ?

So, are you going to post the poll you refer to or not ?

[Robert Giacometti]

So, what you're saying is that the poll Ducky found is not the same poll you're refering to ?
And, you don't put out unsubstantiated info ?

So, are you going to post the poll you refer to or not ?

Anybody who was actively involved back then knew about all the polling going on. Anybody with an ounce of brains who could think for themselves could see what was going on back then. You must not have been around back then?

Back then, the phone was ringing so much at night with some polling going on, it was almost comical. I recall sitting around with a group having coffee once, laughing out loud as some were comparing questions we were asked in these polls.

If someone is willing to sell a $21 million parcel of land for $7 million, one shouldn't be surprised that these same people might be willing to spend tens of thousands on some polling numbers, to try and figure out a plan of action.

I'm thinking there are 4 different categories people fall into regarding issues around here A) Some don't know what is going at all and are trying their best to gather all the facts, B) some don't know what is going on but are lending an ear to those with an agenda and are being used, C) those who do what is going on, but for whatever reasons are trying to keep things confusing and 4) those who have been around, who have invested the time to gather enough information to become better informed and now are trying to protect their community by sharing their knowledge and experience with others.

Its really funny, I was just talking with someone the other day about S50 and some posts on this forum, when they questioned how long it would be before some information would be posted to try and discredit Bob.

Some things are just so predictable!

[ducky]

I don't think anyone is trying to discredit Bob. I certainly am not. I tried to find the poll he was speaking of, and I thought the article I found was it. He disagrees and elaborated.

I'm just trying to find answers. I am being disparaged and discredited for asking questions. I'm wondering how relevant arguments from nine or more years ago are in 2010. I think it's an honest question. I'm trying to take what I hear from both sides and come up with my own opinion. I'd like some updated facts about what is and is not possible for residents to still have a say in.

I also don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of all the people in Folsom. I don't know how any of them feel about growth now in 2010. It won't do any good tilting at windmills if all the new people who live in Folsom just don't care.

Would I rather have that land stay agricultural and open space? You bet! It's not because of a vendetta against developers and land investors. It's because I think California should preserve its open spaces and agriculture. We have lost too much.

I certainly am not trying to cram my opinion down other people's throats and then call them unintelligent if they don't blindly accept my way of thinking.

[Redone]

Its really funny, I was just talking with someone the other day about S50 and some posts on this forum, when they questioned how long it would be before some information would be posted to try and discredit Bob.

Some things are just so predictable!

Discredit ?

Come on both Bobs , all people are asking for is something in writing.
Stop thinking it's all personal and about you guys, some people really just would like to see this poll since you've brought it up and raised curiousity.

[Steve Heard]

I don't think anyone is trying to discredit Bob. I certainly am not. I tried to find the poll he was speaking of, and I thought the article I found was it. He disagrees and elaborated.

I'm just trying to find answers. I am being disparaged and discredited for asking questions. I'm wondering how relevant arguments from nine or more years ago are in 2010. I think it's an honest question. I'm trying to take what I hear from both sides and come up with my own opinion. I'd like some updated facts about what is and is not possible for residents to still have a say in.

I also don't claim to have my finger on the pulse of all the people in Folsom. I don't know how any of them feel about growth now in 2010. It won't do any good tilting at windmills if all the new people who live in Folsom just don't care.

Would I rather have that land stay agricultural and open space? You bet! It's not because of a vendetta against developers and land investors. It's because I think California should preserve its open spaces and agriculture. We have lost too much.

I certainly am not trying to cram my opinion down other people's throats and then call them unintelligent if they don't blindly accept my way of thinking.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[tessieca]

Anybody who was actively involved back then knew about all the polling going on. Anybody with an ounce of brains who could think for themselves could see what was going on back then.

You're contradicting yourself, Robert. You can hardly wait for people to wake and see that they've been had, but then say that anyone with an ounce of brains knew what was going on. I tend to believe that ounce of brains thing. I think most people didn't/don't have the same sense that things were done in an evil manner for evil purposes and solely for big developers instead of that under the circumstances at the time the deal(s) looked good for the community.

I don't think anyone is trying to discredit Bob. I certainly am not. I tried to find the poll he was speaking of, and I thought the article I found was it. He disagrees and elaborated.

I don't think you'll find the poll to which he is referring. I believe it was done by the city, and that it was not necessarily published, except for some results that they wanted to use at the time.

[JRudi]

Robert, if someone has a different belief, opinion, or understanding than you do it does not mean they are being used.

You've made some serious allegations about fraud and corruption among our city council members, and if someone asks to see proof, rather than taking your word as gospel, it means they are being used by someone? Can't they just want proof? You were forever challenging people in the political forum when they'd say things you disagreed with. "Where's the proof?" you would ask.

Now, if someone asks you for proof they are wrong? Being used? Being fed information?

I surely wouldn't arrest, prosecute, ignore, or vote out someone based on rumor, even if several people claim it to be true.

You claim to know the history of everything you accuse the council of, but with your superior knowledge and history, you can't provide proof of the corruption you accuse them of.

When and if you do, I'll say, "Wow, Robert was right! They are corrupt! Let's get rid of the bums!" In the mean time, every election you make the same claims and then tell everyone who doesn't take your word that they are being used.

You can't honestly believe that no corruption has occurred in our city government, ever? If you need evidence in order to be convinced, it is very simple to find. Just look on the City's website. There, you will find copies of past budgets, salary schedules and contracts with the various employee groups. If you examine this evidence, you will find that the Police Chief's salary has steadily risen the past four fiscal years from roughly $165k per year to a current $210k per year. And, during roughly this same period, you will find that all other city employee salaries have remain unchanged. In fact, by most of the labor agreements, most employee salaries have been frozen during this time. Do you think at least a couple of city council members were aware that this was happening? I do. In fact, my guess is that one or two actually facilitated this.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. How about a certain condominium conversion project in town that has been plagued with problems the past few years? How the heck was that approved and allowed to be sold with all the poor construction and mold problems that have been discovered since then? This was done because one particular council member developed a friendship with the owners of the project and pushed for the condominium conversion to be approved before all state mandated noticing and city inspections were completed, all because the developers wanted to hit the market when it was at its peak.

Or, how about the council member who pressured a county agency through his position on their board to waive fines the agency issued to the contractor of his custom home?

Or, how about a prior city manager who covered for a council member that threatened a city employee. If the threat had been proven, it would have constituted a violation of the City Charter and possibly forced the council member to forfeit their council seat?

Do you want me to continue?

[supermom]

bahhh, Robert answer your e-mails!

and when are we gonna get someone in office who knows how to propely use a poll, and ask the proper questions so that no one will have to flesh out the good or bad results and just publish the results. After all, the poll is paid for by the pblic and for the publics best interests. I personally find it objectionable that anyone would publish only a partial poll.

Robert, answer your e-mails!!!!!!

[Steve Heard]

You can't honestly believe that no corruption has occurred in our city government, ever? If you need evidence in order to be convinced, it is very simple to find. Just look on the City's website. There, you will find copies of past budgets, salary schedules and contracts with the various employee groups. If you examine this evidence, you will find that the Police Chief's salary has steadily risen the past four fiscal years from roughly $165k per year to a current $210k per year. And, during roughly this same period, you will find that all other city employee salaries have remain unchanged. In fact, by most of the labor agreements, most employee salaries have been frozen during this time. Do you think at least a couple of city council members were aware that this was happening? I do. In fact, my guess is that one or two actually facilitated this.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. How about a certain condominium conversion project in town that has been plagued with problems the past few years? How the heck was that approved and allowed to be sold with all the poor construction and mold problems that have been discovered since then? This was done because one particular council member developed a friendship with the owners of the project and pushed for the condominium conversion to be approved before all state mandated noticing and city inspections were completed, all because the developers wanted to hit the market when it was at its peak.

Or, how about the council member who pressured a county agency through his position on their board to waive fines the agency issued to the contractor of his custom home?

Or, how about a prior city manager who covered for a council member that threatened a city employee. If the threat had been proven, it would have constituted a violation of the City Charter and possibly forced the council member to forfeit their council seat?

Do you want me to continue?

No, what ever makes you think that? All I'm saying is that if you are going to sling mud, back it up. If you have gathered such evidence, please post it. You can't possibly be upset with the thousands of citizens who have no idea what you are so upset about and expect us to just follow along because you seay so.

[TruthSeeker]

Do you want me to continue?

Yes please continue.
I've been hearing very similar stories from several other unique, unrelated and unsolicited sources which confirms that you and Robert have been correct with your statements all this time. I've also been contacted by someone who has tried to sway my opinion and change it, you already know who that was. Sometimes the ugly truth hurts, even when nobody wants to hear it.