343 replies to this topic

[Robert Giacometti]

No, you don't understand the point I am making at all! You are being stubborn and refusing to give merit to my point.

If I was attacked and my head was "bounced" or slammed into a concrete sidewalk I would be unable to be scared, or act in any manner to attempt to save my own life.

Its call a TBI.

Look it up.

I'm wasn't asking about your point, nor was I applying a label to you like you did to me.

Unfortunatley, I'm limited by my own lifes experience and in my younger days I got into more than few scrapes/fisticups in my life. Every single time, I remember being scared and tried my darndest not to let the other person kill me.

Somebody should have told me I wasn't supposed to be able to do that.

[supermom]

http://www.dailykos....merman-s-Story-

Robert, check out this site.
I found it a minute ago.
It follows along with a few of the reasons I think that some truths were not spoken when an accounting of the evening was given.

[Robert Giacometti]

Doesn't it bother anybody that the prosecutor declined to file charges until the media hyped up the racial aspect and political pressure became ENORMOUS. I know I don't want to live in a country where people are prosecuted for political reasons rather than factual ones.

I understand what you are saying, but if the orginal prosecutor missed something I'm OK with getting it right and making sure justice is served and fair.

Given the fact, that the shooter ignored the advice of the dispatcher, he kinda set himself up for some additional scrutiny.

I suspect its going to be very hard to prove guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt, with 12 jurors, based upon what we know so far.

[supermom]

if you look at the statement of zimmerman and where he says he was when he followed treyvon, then where zimmerman a busted nose, then where treyvons body was found, you will find that treyvons body was moved a substantial distance then was placed facedown in the grass, and the cops found zimmerman standing over the body. This is in direct contrast to zimmermans story that they struggled for the body while treyvon was ontop of him, and then he shot treyvon in selfdefense while treyvon was still on top of him.
treyvon would have fallen on top of zimmerman, then zimmerman would have had to roll treyvon off him to stand up. that would have left treyvon on his side or back.

[The Average Joe]

Not necessarily. Let's let the police involved do the analysis, let the prosecutor present their case and let the jurors involved determine the truth. Anything else is just hearsay.

Now if you want to talk about how irresponsible the press and rights "leaders" have been, have at it.

[Robert Giacometti]

http://www.dailykos....merman-s-Story-

Robert, check out this site.
I found it a minute ago.
It follows along with a few of the reasons I think that some truths were not spoken when an accounting of the evening was given.

You have every right to read or believe what ever it is you want to! I'm not defending nor disputing anything that has been reported about this incident. All along, I've said lets wait until all the facts come out.

If you want to use the Daily Kos as your source for info, that is your right. You gotta open your mind to the fact Daily Kos is a very biased and has slanted reporting, like many others out there.

I can flat out tell you from first hand experience of getting punched in the nose, I fell backwards. ( I know I made some people happy over sharing this).

The bottom line is this, I suspect all of us would probably shoot someone who was pounding our head on the concrete if we thought we were going to die to save ourselves. Its human nature to try and protect ourselves.

For the life of me I can't understand what is so hard to acknowledge this, unless by admitting to this it creates doubts amongst people who have already made up ther minds about this incident? Some people jump to conclusions on issues based upon on a misguided sense of fairness and disregard the facts and the law. In this particular case its easy to look at an 17 year old walking home, unarmed, wearing a hoodie and having skittles in his pocket and getting shot by some wannabe and thinking this shouldn't happen. I agree it shouldn't have happened, but it did and now the system has to sort through the FACTs as they apply to the law.

You can't allow your emotions to decide what is legal or not!

My asking the question I did upset some because it challenged them to rethink their beliefs.

[Homer]

Doesn't it bother anybody that the prosecutor declined to file charges until the media hyped up the racial aspect and political pressure became ENORMOUS. I know I don't want to live in a country where people are prosecuted for political reasons rather than factual ones.

I can see some delay being justified as everything gets reviewed, But what is not helpful is AG Holder running around with Al Sharpton and ignoring the New Black Panther Party down there running amuck. I have to admit that the Prosecutors demeanor during her press conferance made me uneasy.

[Homer]

if you look at the statement of zimmerman and where he says he was when he followed treyvon, then where zimmerman a busted nose, then where treyvons body was found, you will find that treyvons body was moved a substantial distance then was placed facedown in the grass, and the cops found zimmerman standing over the body. This is in direct contrast to zimmermans story that they struggled for the body while treyvon was ontop of him, and then he shot treyvon in selfdefense while treyvon was still on top of him.
treyvon would have fallen on top of zimmerman, then zimmerman would have had to roll treyvon off him to stand up. that would have left treyvon on his side or back.

If there was any physical evidence that the crime scene had been tampered with such as bodies being moved, Zimmerman would not have been released from jail and would have promptly been charged for Martins death. The facts of what evidence was found at the crime scene will come out during the trial. I'm just not buying the "expert" Daily Kos breakdown of the unreleased crime scene evidence. As someone who has seen/responded to/broken up and sometimes participated in numerous fights i find it impossible that anyone can predict which way someone will falldown or react when struck.

[ducky]

I figured you'd be the best person to answer what you would do, rather than someone else. Again, I don't understand why its so hard for people to answer a simple question on what they would do?

I think it's because, until you are in that exact situation, you really don't know what you will do.
It's easy to be cavalier and hypothetically say, "If it's between him and me, it's going to be him," but, in reality, taking a life should never be an easy yes or no answer.

[Priscilla]

if you look at the statement of zimmerman and where he says he was when he followed treyvon, then where zimmerman a busted nose, then where treyvons body was found, you will find that treyvons body was moved a substantial distance then was placed facedown in the grass, and the cops found zimmerman standing over the body. This is in direct contrast to zimmermans story that they struggled for the body while treyvon was ontop of him, and then he shot treyvon in selfdefense while treyvon was still on top of him.
treyvon would have fallen on top of zimmerman, then zimmerman would have had to roll treyvon off him to stand up. that would have left treyvon on his side or back.

You dont know this- you were not there! Stop listening to the media. Im sure there are so many facts we dont know about....because we were not there!!!!!!

[supermom]

You have every right to read or believe what ever it is you want to! I'm not defending nor disputing anything that has been reported about this incident. All along, I've said lets wait until all the facts come out.

If you want to use the Daily Kos as your source for info, that is your right. You gotta open your mind to the fact Daily Kos is a very biased and has slanted reporting, like many others out there.

I can flat out tell you from first hand experience of getting punched in the nose, I fell backwards. ( I know I made some people happy over sharing this).

The bottom line is this, I suspect all of us would probably shoot someone who was pounding our head on the concrete if we thought we were going to die to save ourselves. Its human nature to try and protect ourselves.

For the life of me I can't understand what is so hard to acknowledge this, unless by admitting to this it creates doubts amongst people who have already made up ther minds about this incident? Some people jump to conclusions on issues based upon on a misguided sense of fairness and disregard the facts and the law. In this particular case its easy to look at an 17 year old walking home, unarmed, wearing a hoodie and having skittles in his pocket and getting shot by some wannabe and thinking this shouldn't happen. I agree it shouldn't have happened, but it did and now the system has to sort through the FACTs as they apply to the law.

You can't allow your emotions to decide what is legal or not!

My asking the question I did upset some because it challenged them to rethink their beliefs.

Nice try, Like I said before--I came up with opinion well before I came across this website. The bottome line of your theory should be--if your life felt threatened you would be willing to shoot someone to get them off off you. Regardless of whether you kill the person or not.
My bottom line on your previous theory is that you don't know that that person could have had the wherewithal to shoot someone after having his head slammed into concrete. It is my contention that under the statement he gave; he would not have been able to do so. It doesn't matter if if he did; because he woldn't have been able to do so. A much more plausible scenario is that treyvon was kneeling or standing and zimmerman shot the kid in the abdomen at close range.

You dont know this- you were not there! Stop listening to the media. Im sure there are so many facts we dont know about....because we were not there!!!!!!

blah, blah, blah----this is a discussion forum. This is what we do here. discuss events. You don't lke it--go away.

The story is news worthy and deserves attention because it involves the highest crime a person can committ inthis country.
If you don't like it, too bad. Find another thread to read.

ps..stop assuming im getting my opinions based on media outlets. Whats wrong with you, any?
You tell me to not listen to media but then you try to jump a springboard commentary down our throats about the black panthers, al sharpton, and your dislike of the media?
get your dislike of stories from a source other than the media if you dislike the media so much!

[supermom]

If there was any physical evidence that the crime scene had been tampered with such as bodies being moved, Zimmerman would not have been released from jail and would have promptly been charged for Martins death. The facts of what evidence was found at the crime scene will come out during the trial. I'm just not buying the "expert" Daily Kos breakdown of the unreleased crime scene evidence. As someone who has seen/responded to/broken up and sometimes participated in numerous fights i find it impossible that anyone can predict which way someone will falldown or react when struck.

That may ne true--however, with the true timeline and an honest accounting of the events, I imagine that a more than strong humch could be found on which way a dead body will collapse and and lie.

so what do you think is the probability of a person dying instantly from an abdominal shot?

Would you wonder why zimmerman was found standing over the body with both his hands on the boy; the boy facing down with the kids hands under his body in a self protective like cradle and the entrance wound was at the abdomen?

the scenarios I think of---A) Zimmerman doesn't know the kid is dying
so 1) he smothers the kid
or 2) he is holding the kid down while waiting for cops to arrive

or B) zimmerman had just finshed moving the body to make his story more palusible
but (1) can he be thinking on his own that well while all the adrenaline is rushing his system?
so then you have to wonder 2) is it possible the person living in that house who was friends with Zimmerman, came out and helped zimmerman, but neither have said so-up to this point?

[ducky]

[quote name='supermom' timestamp='1334499801' post='440017']
Nice try, Like I said before--I came up with opinion well before I came across this website. The bottome line of your theory should be--if your life felt threatened you would be willing to shoot someone to get them off off you. Regardless of whether you kill the person or not.
My bottom line on your previous theory is that you don't know that that person could have had the wherewithal to shoot someone after having his head slammed into concrete. It is my contention that under the statement he gave; he would not have been able to do so. It doesn't matter if if he did; because he woldn't have been able to do so. A much more plausible scenario is that treyvon was kneeling or standing and zimmerman shot the kid in the abdomen at close range.

[closed quote]

Supermom, I would tend to agree with you that if someone truly had their head bashed on concrete they would most likely be incapacitated and wouldn't be able to shoot, but how about a variation on your suppositions? What if Zimmerman had time to get into a protective position with hands behind his head to cushion the bashing motion and elbows out to block blows? It would explain why only a friction abrasion and no fractures or TBI on the back of the head, but the fact that you can't sit there forever and let someone do this to you and still survive could lead to a desperate act.

Is there something in the news that Martin was shot in the abdomen at close range? I haven't seen that, but, if it's true, it could have happened while Martin was straddling Zimmerman administering a beating.

Everything I've written above is not meant to say it's what happened. It's just responding to a theory.

I'm not saying any of these things happened. I wasn't there.

[supermom]

[closed quote]

Supermom, I would tend to agree with you that if someone truly had their head bashed on concrete they would most likely be incapacitated and wouldn't be able to shoot, but how about a variation on your suppositions? What if Zimmerman had time to get into a protective position with hands behind his head to cushion the bashing motion and elbows out to block blows? It would explain why only a friction abrasion and no fractures or TBI on the back of the head, but the fact that you can't sit there forever and let someone do this to you and still survive could lead to a desperate act.

Is there something in the news that Martin was shot in the abdomen at close range? I haven't seen that, but, if it's true, it could have happened while Martin was straddling Zimmerman administering a beating.

Everything I've written above is not meant to say it's what happened. It's just responding to a theory.

I'm not saying any of these things happened. I wasn't there.

I agree, it does look that way, however he has no wounds on his hands, wrists or arms--which would be indicative of him scraping himself while protecting his head..

It is a very plausible, in my opinion...that he did have his head hit --on grass.

It is also plausible in my opinion, that the neighbor--who keeps attacking media outlets and called the kid some nasty names which he later retracted, was involved. We certainly know that zimmerman was moved to the neighbors house while the medics cleaned him up and he was questioned by the police.