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Railway - Folsom To Placerville


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#61 SunshineServices

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:09 PM

Dude, chill the eff out. You didn't lay those tracks and they have sat dormant for years. So dont act like you busted your a$$ installing them. You're acting like I'm killing your family or something. Calm down.



I'm not opposed to a train at all. I just don't want to pay for it. I also don't want to lose access to the trail.


As a matter of fact, I HAVE worked on both the rail corridor AND the rolling stock(cars and engines for you TRAIL ONLY folks). Give me a shout out when you're out there sweating YOUR a$$ off building yourself and your buddies a trail. JUST HOPE I DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!

Really? Please share your data.


Folsom_Blues did you get that? Just repeating if you didn't:

Top Trails – The Top Ten Trails in the U.S.
usparks.about.com/od/trailspathsdayhikes/tp/top_trails.htm
The United States has over 200000 miles of trails to discover and explore. But with so much to see, it's tricky to know where to start. Check out our list of the top ...

thanks
When The Power Of Love Overcomes The Love Of Power The World Will Know Peace.

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#62 chris v

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

As a matter of fact, I HAVE worked on both the rail corridor AND the rolling stock(cars and engines for you TRAIL ONLY folks). Give me a shout out when you're out there sweating YOUR a$$ off building yourself and your buddies a trail. JUST HOPE I DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!


I don't know why you're being such a dick about this. Serious. Next time you roll up on my bumper real fast in that yellow truck of yours watch out for the brake lights. And yes you've done it more than once.

#63 mac_convert

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:36 PM

This group is preserving and repairing the track on their dime! The group is made of all volunteers who love the railroad and trains. I support a rails and trails option only. :2thumbsup:

There is a lot of history that goes along with the railroad tracks. I recently took my class out on the train ride. The train ride and class and craft time was $10 per student. I thought the price was high until I saw what the children got out the of the experience. If we didn't have to pay for bus transportation the trip would have been $10 for a three+ hour experience that is far better than admission to a movie. All third grade classes should take their students on this trip because it covers a lot of the history and social studies curriculum. :cheer:

P&SVRR is actively working on repairing the tracks. Here is a shot from last summer of them doing the work:

The tracks have been ignored for years, so it will take a little time to fix them.
Save the rails and the history of this area.



#64 SunshineServices

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 08:54 PM

I don't know why you're being such a dick about this. Serious. Next time you roll up on my bumper real fast in that yellow truck of yours watch out for the brake lights. And yes you've done it more than once.


See, I thought YOU were. Serious. Amazing what happens when one group is willing to share and the other group is not.

As for rolling up fast it usually doesn't pay since with the trailer the braking distance really lengthens. In other words if you are accusing me of tailgating as a rule I don't. But that doesn't stop people from pulling in front of me or cutting me off. What kind of car do you drive again? I have forgotten, remind me again so I can watch out for you as you watch out for me.

You bring up the funniest subjects trying to prove your 'point'. Strange. Scattershooting I think they call it. I'm a 'dick' you're a scattershooter. Classy. And appropriate coming from you. I would expect nothing less.
When The Power Of Love Overcomes The Love Of Power The World Will Know Peace.

Jimi Hendrix

#65 supermom

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:19 PM

Well, I am starting to warm up to the idea of biking and bikers. Except the massive biker thing that goes on. <shrug, maybe if it was managed better>

I do have to say, though....that there is something romantically historical that makes me love trains. I think that trains will probably always win over bikes...

Can't they coexist? a lighting system on the trail for bikers to see train approaching, or widening the trail?

#66 Carl G

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:04 AM

Well, I am starting to warm up to the idea of biking and bikers. Except the massive biker thing that goes on. <shrug, maybe if it was managed better>

I do have to say, though....that there is something romantically historical that makes me love trains. I think that trains will probably always win over bikes...

Can't they coexist? a lighting system on the trail for bikers to see train approaching, or widening the trail?

My sense is the bikers don't want to coexist. For them it is an all or nothing proposition. If you take the excursion train out of Old Sac there is a bike trail right next to it and it works very nicely. The excursion train running out of Folsom could even offer one-way trips for cyclist - ride the train up the hill, then ride your bike back down. It is a win-win.

#67 Dude

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:18 AM

I think the objection to the rails is simply because it will take longer, much longer, to complete the entire project.

#68 (The Dude)

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 08:51 AM

I don't know why you're being such a dick about this. Serious. Next time you roll up on my bumper real fast in that yellow truck of yours watch out for the brake lights. And yes you've done it more than once.


Geezuz dude! Was that really necessary??? Why are you so rabid about making it a bike trail only? We're you traumatized by a choo choo as a child? I'm joking but seriously, saying that crap and making those accusations was over the top.

It's good to discuss pros and cons, but it's bad to be a Richard yourself about it

#69 Carl G

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:13 AM

I think the objection to the rails is simply because it will take longer, much longer, to complete the entire project.

These are the same people who stand at the microwave and say "Hurry up! I don't have all minute!"

#70 The Average Joe

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

I don't know why you're being such a dick about this. Serious. Next time you roll up on my bumper real fast in that yellow truck of yours watch out for the brake lights. And yes you've done it more than once.

Find a mirror next time you go off. No personal attacks...remember? You certainly don't help your cause any.

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#71 tony

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

I would be happy to take the train and ride my bike. I think a train coming along 2 or 3 times a day would make it more interesting. I don't understand why the trail people are so opposed to the train. The train people aren't opposed to having a trail too. I don't see how putting the trail next to the track would cost any more than tearing out the track and putting it on top of it. Why is only having a trail better than having both? If the rail people want to do the work let them and I'd be glad to make a donation.

Yes, the combination of the train and a bike path would be ideal; in fact, they are quite complimentary, as the train can double the range of cyclists (take the train up the hill and ride back down). My wife and I once combined the Durango-Silverton RR and biking into an awesome three-day, 100-mile tour. The issue is that this is not an ideal situation. In general, it is significantly cheaper to build a bike path on the rail bed than alongside it because most of the grading is already done, the drainage requires only minor modifications and, most importantly, the bridges and culverts can be re-used without building new ones. However, because of the rugged terrain and variable ROW width along the corridor through El Dorado County, the cost of building alongside the tracks is even greater, and there are some sections where it is just not feasible to do so. So, it is easy for the rail folks to simply say that they are fine with having both, but all the added cost of having both goes to the construction of the path, delaying it by years at best, and at worst resulting in significant gaps in the corridor.

On the rail side, the question that has to be answered is: is a 30-mile excursion train really a feasible possibility? Rail groups in Folsom and El Dorado County have been working hard for over twenty years (and I do would never doubt the dedication or perseverance of rail buffs), but neither yet has a regularly-scheduled excursion train of even a mile or two. So the question is, is it a reasonable use of a publicly-owned transportation corridor to preserve large swaths of corridor for excursion rail that is unlikely to ever happen. To be clear, I'm not saying that I don't think excursion rail will happen. What I'm saying is that a 30-mile excursion train is highly unlikely. I do not doubt, and would welcome, excursion trains from Folsom and/or El Dorado. But the proposal for removing tracks is for the middle third or so from Latrobe to Shingle Springs. This includes most of the stretches that would be most difficult to build a path alongside the tracks, and the stretches least likely to have trains running on them. I would also note that from Missouri Flat Rd east, the tracks have long been removed and a very popular bike path has been constructed (partly on the old Michican-CA Lumber RR grade east of Placerville) almost all the way to Camino (with a significant gap in western Placerville).

In a best-case scenario, an excursion train running on weekends may carry a couple thousand passengers a week. A bike path on the same corridor would be used by 10s of thousands of bicyclists, walkers, joggers, mom's with strollers, people in wheelchairs, etc. every week, seven days a week, up to 16 hours a day, just as the ARP now is. This isn't primarily about Folsom, this is about providing transportation and recreation options in western El Dorado County, where currently most parents would not let their 5-year-old ride past the end of their driveway.

Oh, and speaking of 5-year-olds, we're on our fourth one right now, and the first three were all quite capable of riding a single speed bike the 5 miles of 5% to 7% grades from Folsom to Beale's point (the fourth one is just short of that right now) and quite happily would ride the 12 miles around Lake Natoma, complete with its series of rolling hills. A 2-3% RR grade really is child's play on a bicycle (sidewalks are sloped 2% across so they drain; the ADA considers anything less than 2% as level for a wheelchair). Anybody who thinks a 5-year-old cannot ride 5 miles on a bike trail hasn't taken a 5-year-old on a bike trail more than once a month.

#72 Dude

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:21 AM

Carl G, you know, in all fairness, don't quote me but I do recall seeing that without the rails, it would be a matter of months. As compared to the possible years otherwise.

SAVE THE RAILS

#73 Howdy

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:30 AM

As part of a larger cross state trail, this will be a huge boon to the economy. The vision includes connecting Lake Tahoe with San Francisco. Hardiest of cyclists? That's rubbish! You do know that rail corridors grades are kept at a gentle 2%? And offering excursion trains every two weeks at 18 bucks a pop isn't helping anyone. Open up the trail.


A huge boon to the economy? From who? The cyclist? Are you talking about the same spandex wearing/pack riding wanna be Lance Armstrongs? When it comes to being cheap they are about one step higher than a tree hugger. I see them come through the airport every Wednesday night. They own the roads and go flying through the stop signs. Taking my kids to school this morning, Mr. spandex goes flying through the stop sign in front of the school.

You think these guys are going to stop along the way and purchase things at the mom and pop stores and keep this economy booming? Hell they don't even stop for stop signs. To them its a race to get from point A to point B and back again. Get that bike back on their Honda Civic and back home. Whoever is telling you these guys are going to drop some serious coin along the route is pulling your leg.

#74 Dude

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:31 AM

...This isn't primarily about Folsom, this is about providing transportation and recreation options in western El Dorado County


Excuse me but it also isn't primarily about Western El Dorado County

#75 chris v

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:52 AM

Geezuz dude! Was that really necessary??? Why are you so rabid about making it a bike trail only? We're you traumatized by a choo choo as a child? I'm joking but seriously, saying that crap and making those accusations was over the top.

It's good to discuss pros and cons, but it's bad to be a Richard yourself about it


It really doesn't matter what I say at this point. I was defending myself against an attack from Jeff, who obviously has beef with me. So whatever. You guys go play trains. I never said I was against dual usage of the area, it's just not feasible. So in my defense I merely stated my opinion which is obviously not popular here and got jumped from all sides.




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