187 replies to this topic

[education]

Thank you rlfowers for shedding the light on those who are replying without knowing the facts.

The Education Code has a list of fees that school districts can charge for, and a shorter list for what they CANNOT charge for. The Attorney General has consistently ruled that school districts do not have authority to levy fees for any elective or compulsory class. In this case, the music classes are electives, meaning the students receive a grade, and therefore should not be charged for taking the class.

There are other parents who have questioned the billings and they were told in a not-so-nice manner to pull their child from the class.

FCUSD is not the first district to be sued for noncompliance. School districts are advised to check with their legal counsel beforing assessing any student fees. Either FCUSD chose to ignore the law or were not given proper counsel.

Mrs. Kinsella has gone to all avenues regarding the billings and she was basically stonewalled. As rlflowers stated, an independent CPA was given a very short time to view the books and it appears that there are questionable activities by the booster club. So much so that the Attorney General's office will be investigating.

To those sayinng "Shame on you" to Mrs. Kinsella, please hold off until you know all the facts. Do not be duped. Remember Enron and all the other white collar crime activities. It happens in education as well. Question authority.

I applaud all those who time and again reach into their pockets to help the schools, especially in dire budget constraints. But I also recommend that you as parents, ask to see how to your money is being spent.

[EDF]

Seems to me if there are "irregularities" and the state AG is investigating... why the rush to a class action...

Unless they find some embezzlement on the part of the Boosters, then Donna babe ought to back off this suit...

If she hasn't paid the fees... then shame on her....and I guess she's going to say it's a "catch 22"... her kid can't do any of the other music programs unless he's in marching band... the class he get's a grade from...

[tessieca]

Where'd "Education" come from? It is not an apt moniker. The post almost sounds like someone who has talked to a lawyer about the issue. Hmmmmm.

[Robert Giacometti]

The Education Code has a list of fees that school districts can charge for, and a shorter list for what they CANNOT charge for.  The Attorney General has consistently ruled that school districts do not have authority to levy fees for any elective or compulsory class.  In this case,  the music classes are electives, meaning the students receive a grade, and therefore should not be charged for taking the class.

Mrs. Kinsella has gone to all avenues regarding the billings and she was basically stonewalled.  As rlflowers stated, an independent CPA was given a very short time to view the books and it appears that there are questionable activities by the booster club.  So much so that the Attorney General's office will be investigating.

To those sayinng "Shame on you" to Mrs. Kinsella, please hold off until you know all the facts.  Do not be duped.  Remember Enron and all the other white collar crime activities. 

Education,

Welcome to the forum.

Since you claim Mrs. Kinsella has gone to all avenues regarding the billing, should we assume she has contacted the Attorney General prior to contemplating filing a class action lawsuit? If so, what was their opinion?

If the independant CPA discovered "questionable activities" aren't they required to report such findings to the IRS? What was the IRS's opinion?

If the boosters are billing her for dues and she hasn't paid (rdflowers hasn't provided us with this fact), how has she suffered a loss?

Maybe you can clarify for us, ( again rdflowers didn't address this issue) has Mrs. Kinsella applied to serve on the board for the music boosters?

Its hard for me to be very sympathetic towards someone, if they haven't paid the fees that the rest of the families have paid, to support the program their own children participate in, yet somehow find the resources to involve an attorney and CPA into this matter.

Again, welcome to the forum and I am sure many of us would like clarification of these facts!

[zach5]

What do you want the class to turn into? Just literally teaching by the books with no money for actual music class or competitions or any of the other stuff that goes beyond the schools budget?

And then what about world language classes, maybe she should go after them, you have to pay money in order to purchase the workbook for the class. Maybe Mrs Kinsella should go after the world language program also.

[tgianco]

Flowers,

Let me put this in a way that no one can misunderstand. Screw her!

[DrKoz23]

Flowers,

Let me put this in a way that no one can misunderstand. Screw her!

I couldn't have said it better myself... thank you for saying it first!

And to Education (or should we call you Donna's Friend or even Donna)... even though I don't know all the facts doesn't mean I can't form an opinion based on what I know. And let me state it again... SHAME ON YOU and SHAME ON ANYONE who joins the lawsuit! Nothing like one person to spoil it all for everyone. If this does in fact bring an end to the music program... I hope Donna sleeps well at night knowing she brought an end to it!

No one ever twisted Donna's arm to make her kids take these ELECTIVES!

[rlflowers]

What a shame the tone and civility of this discussion has deteroriated so rapidly. Sounds like the Booster Board is now chiming in.

I understand that Donna has paid her children's fees for years and has cancelled checks to prove it and that the State Dept. of Education and AG's office are also investigating.

Exactly what is are the Boosters afraid of? If their house is in order they have nothing to worry about. "Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing." - Phil McGraw.

[zach5]

I still don't believe/nor think you can prove that the Booster Organization is actually scared of anything.

[Steve Heard]

There are many issues that need to be resolved regarding the Boosters.  They will say that without these payments the kids cannot go to competitions.  Yet, they hold several fund raisers throughout the eeyar (fireworks, crab fees, wine and jazz) and the procees all go toward administrative costs and overhead.  None of the money from these fundraisers actually goes to the kids or the program.  Their overhead exceeds $40,000 annually.  There is so much fat and pork in their budget that it is drowning the program which in turn causes the "fees/dues" to be so high (a 70% increase this year alone).

Those of you who are jumping allover Mrs. Kinsella, why aren't you commenting on the statement above?

I don't know if it is true or not, but you don't know Mrs. Kinsella's case, either.

I never investigated it, but I assumed that all of the fundraisers paid for the kids travel and participation. If it is true that they are paying up to $1300 per year, where is the money going? Where is the money raised by the fundraising events going?

The boosters may in fact be legitimately spending the money, but $40,000 in overhead sounds excessive, and a 70% increase in dues would be a shocker.

We need to know that truth before we condemn either party.

Thank goodness my kids are slackers. ;-)

[Drugsarebad]

For those of you who are condemning this woman while you admit to not have knowledge of the facts, who say she is only in this for the money when she did not pay any dues for her own kids, I say to you, get a clue about how lawsuits work.

Obviously she could not recover any damages (receive cash) if she did not have any damages (paid cash).

I am speculating that there is much more to this than meets the eye. For example to Mr. Giacometti, would it interest you to know that the Folsom Boosters holds its meetings that decide the budget in the middle of the summer when parents are not around to attend? And even when you ask to be informed so you can attend, requests to attend the budget meetings are refused.

The bills that the booster organization sends out to the parents requires the dues to be paid. If the bills are not paid, the music director, Curtis Gaesser, harasses the children in class for the money.

Further, would in interest you to know that the majority of the budget of the boosters goes to the following items: Additional compensation to Mr. Curtis Gaesser and to his wife for "mailing out the bills for the dues".

[I LOVE BRITNEY]

I find it very comical to read most of the comments posted on this site who are made by people with WAY to much time on their hands. Is their nothing better you could do with your lives than to sit around at talk about a subject that you obviously know NOTHING about? Only a few people on this site seem knowledgeable about what they are talking about. Why don't some of you log off this chat site and come back once you've done some research. Or rather stay on for my personal enjoyment...I can't wait to read what you all write next!

[Robert Giacometti]

Those of you who are jumping allover Mrs. Kinsella, why aren't you commenting on the statement above?

I don't know if it is true or not, but you don't know Mrs. Kinsella's case, either.

I never investigated it, but I assumed that all of the fundraisers paid for the kids travel and participation. If it is true that they are paying up to $1300 per year, where is the money going? Where is the money raised by the fundraising events going? 

The boosters may in fact be legitimately spending the money, but $40,000 in overhead sounds excessive, and a 70% increase in dues would be a shocker.

We need to know that truth before we condemn either party.

Thank goodness my kids are slackers. ;-)

Steve
I appreciate what you are saying. IMHO, there does seem to be some inconsistencies regarding Mrs. Kinsella's concerns as expressed by those who might be considered supporters.

Are her concerns that she has to pay for educational programs that district should pay for or is it she considers the Boosters to be wasting her dues or is it the labeling of the fees, dues instead of donations? It seems to me that by using the shotgun approach of complaining about all these issues it lessens credibility about what is the real concern?

One thing most of us may agree with is FHS has one of the most respected and recognized music programs in the country. This took many years of hard work and efforts of many truly dedicated volunteers along with visionary leadership to get to the level they are. There is a board that oversee's the boosters and they must be doing something right, as I am not aware of any other complaints. So I am assuming the majority of the members are happy with the way things are being run.

You and I know that numbers can be used to raise concerns without giving all the details. If the board has agreed to enter events this year that cost 70% more, it would be reasonable that costs and dues would have to go up. I would suspect that given all the succes that this program has achieved, they may have some paid staff. If indeed they do, $40,000 a year in expenses would be understandable with salaries, taxes, and workers comp.

I have had the opportunity to serve on many boards here in Folsom. Its been my experience that this is a thankless job and the most frustrating part of the job is dealing with those members who usually don't do anything but complain.

I guess I'm extremely grateful and admire those who are willing to give their time to serve our youth, seniors and those who have needs. I just give them the benefit of the doubt over those who do nothing and complain.

[Chad Vander Veen]

shoot first, ask questions later.

[uberman]

Has she tried to resolve this outside of the court system? Like, maybe re-negotiating her invoices and dealing with the issue privately?

Schools and other non-profit organizations should have fierce protection against [fraudulent] lawsuits. Whether this is fraudulent or not, it's still tremendously damaging and should be watched over closely.

Sueing a public school for anything is lame.