131 replies to this topic

[GrumpyOldGuy]

For those who doubt that the earth is getting warmer...Short article in this morning's paper - they had to bring snow in by rail to Anchorage, AK and spread it on the streets in order to start the Iditarod dog sled race.  Third year in a row...

[2 Aces]

Let me try this "expert scientist" thing:

"It snowed in Folsom a few years ago...and I have PHOTOS!! Therefore, I declare that we are approaching the next *Ice Age*!! Things are gonna be bad...really, really bad. And it is going to happen "soon". I recommend that people stock up on firewood, matches, coats, mittens, and blankets. CO2 levels will drop like a rock...and with huge, new glacier formations, the sea level will drop...and coastal cities will avoid Biblical floods...whew, what a relief!! Snow in Folsom, which is basically at sea level, is proof of the upcoming Ice Age...and did I mention that I have PHOTOS? If you need to see them, just Google 'Folsom' 'snow'. This is gonna be catastrophic...really, really bad. The sky isn't necessarily falling, but it does seem lower than normal. Again, this Ice Age is gonna be devastating...really, really bad, and it is going to happen "soon". Folsom Lake will become one big ice cube, and average daily temps in Miami and Hawaii will be 25 degrees. You cannot refute the evidence OR my opinion OR my photos, and if you do, you are just an ignorant *Ice Age Denier*."

Wow, that was easy. I even *feel* like a scientist now. It's amazing how easy it is to be a *fake scientist*. I wonder if that is how the global warming scam got started? Hmmm...

[Chris]

"Can I explain it...?  No."

 

Nope, can't.  Neither can you or all of your bought and paid for AGW shill scientists.....  I can theorize but can't prove my theories.  Just like you AGW Climate Clowns...   Only a theory for which there is no proof.

 

What I do know is that it has happened before, again, and again, and again....    Since I am so "simple" according to you I will ask a simple question of you.

 

From the chart below, just go back to 100 million years ago.....   Why is the CO2 level at 1800 ppm and the average global temp above 25 deg. C.   And more importantly, why, who, what was responsible for that....?   

 

And good old middle of the Cretaceous period, warm climate, high sea levels, large dinosaurs, large plants, large insects, new mammals appeared and flourished, new birds appeared, new flowering plants, etc...     A true "sweet spot" in the world events.   Mass extinction (due to asteroid or comet) was 40 million years down the road.   Why was life, and very large life, thriving at 1800 ppm CO2 and the world a lot warmer than today....?

 

Everything you are afraid of in your arguments on this subject, high CO2 levels, high sea levels, a very much warmer average Earth temperature happened at this time...  For a very long time..  And life thrived.....!   And in Spades....!  And it has happened time and time again............!  And man did not even exist yet......

 

Please explain.   My simple mind awaits your enlightenment with great expectation.  Chris

 

[4thgenFolsomite]

 

And good old middle of the Cretaceous period, warm climate, high sea levels, large dinosaurs, large plants, large insects, new mammals appeared and flourished, new birds appeared, new flowering plants, etc...     A true "sweet spot" in the world events.   Mass extinction (due to asteroid or comet) was 40 million years down the road.   Why was life, and very large life, thriving at 1800 ppm CO2 and the world a lot warmer than today....?

 

Everything you are afraid of in your arguments on this subject, high CO2 levels, high sea levels, a very much warmer average Earth temperature happened at this time...  For a very long time..  And life thrived.....!   And in Spades....!  And it has happened time and time again............!  And man did not even exist yet......

 

Please explain.   My simple mind awaits your enlightenment with great expectation.  Chris

 

for my part, I have no doubt life will survive.  but it will be selective.  and that period of selecting out through extinction is going to be horrific.  so that is the bigger picture.  on a more human-centric scale, what do you think the consequences of a sea level rise of, say, 4 feet will be?

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Aces, as soon as you can show photos of snow in Folsom occurring TWO TO FOUR TIMES A MONTH like the occurrence of tidal flooding, then I will join you in the expectation of the next ice age. Until then, you'll have to live with the reality of rising sea levels. But we're lucky, Folsom's elevation is 221 ft. We'll never see the problem.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

4thgen - Here is a link to an interactive NOAA tidal flooding map:

https://coast.noaa.g...coast/tools/slr

Click the LAUNCH button. You get a map much like Google Maps. You can zoom into a particular location, then use the slider on the upper left to adjust the sea level rise by one to five feet.

I zoomed in on the San Francisco airport, then adjusted the slider to 4 ft sea level rise. The entire airport (including the terminal and Hwy 101 out front) goes underwater along with a decent part of Burlingame.

It's a cool interactive map.

[4thgenFolsomite]

4thgen - Here is a link to an interactive NOAA tidal flooding map:

https://coast.noaa.g...coast/tools/slr

Click the LAUNCH button. You get a map much like Google Maps. You can zoom into a particular location, then use the slider on the upper left to adjust the sea level rise by one to five feet.

I zoomed in on the San Francisco airport, then adjusted the slider to 4 ft sea level rise. The entire airport (including the terminal and Hwy 101 out front) goes underwater along with a decent part of Burlingame.

It's a cool interactive map.

yes, I've been watching this for a while.  I'm curious what Chris thinks about how that will effect things.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Chris, if you think the tidal flooding that's occurring in 52 US cities 2 to 4 times a month is a theory, you are truly delusional.

Again, whatever the concentrations of CO2 are today or have been in history are not the issue. The concern is the accelerating rate of CO2 increase. I know you like to apply 6th grade arithmetic to this issue, but I assure you it's far more complex than that.

There is no doubt the planet will survive. It will be a huge problem for humanity, however. Especially for those living near the sea.

[Chris]

Chris, if you think the tidal flooding that's occurring in 52 US cities 2 to 4 times a month is a theory, you are truly delusional.

Again, whatever the concentrations of CO2 are today or have been in history are not the issue. The concern is the accelerating rate of CO2 increase. I know you like to apply 6th grade arithmetic to this issue, but I assure you it's far more complex than that.

There is no doubt the planet will survive. It will be a huge problem for humanity, however. Especially for those living near the sea.

Yep, no real answer from you as I suspected....   Because if you do it blows all of your AGW arguments and fears to dust....!   Kinda at a loss aren't you....!   Not for words of course, just no real answer.  And tidal flooding, I never mentioned it, I don't care, don't try to change the subject or divert with the stupid rate of change argument...... 

 

Again, from the chart below, just go back to 100 million years ago.....   Why is the CO2 level at 1800 ppm and the average global temp above 25 deg. C.   And more importantly, why, who, what was responsible for that....?  And I repeat, everything that you are afraid of in your arguments on this subject, high CO2 levels, high sea levels, a very much warmer average Earth temperature happened at this time...  For a very long time..  And life thrived.....!   And in Spades....!  And it has happened time and time again............!  And man did not even exist yet......  

 

Go on, answer it....!   This simple "math" kinda hurts don't it...?   Even a sixth grader can see that you can't answer my question, address these facts, without looking really silly...!   Chris

 

[The Average Joe]

4thgen - Here is a link to an interactive NOAA tidal flooding map:

https://coast.noaa.g...coast/tools/slr

Click the LAUNCH button. You get a map much like Google Maps. You can zoom into a particular location, then use the slider on the upper left to adjust the sea level rise by one to five feet.

I zoomed in on the San Francisco airport, then adjusted the slider to 4 ft sea level rise. The entire airport (including the terminal and Hwy 101 out front) goes underwater along with a decent part of Burlingame.

It's a cool interactive map.

 

Gee. At current (high) estimates for sea level rise, your 4 foot map will show what SF airport looks like in 400 years   Meh. The coastline is ever-changing. Look at this map from 200 years ago and compare it to today. Lots of build out on what was flood plain originally. Your appeals are to the emotional sky is falling crowd. Evidence shows there is not catastrophic calamity from a few inches of sea level rise...UNLESS you build in reclaimed flood plains. Like, um, SF airport.

 

http://www.sfei.org/...k/pastpres1.gif

[DougP]

Chris, oh wow. You know how to use a multi meter. Nice talent. And an expert on pH sensors? I've always wondered...when you see the pH number for a solution, exactly what does that number represent? If you see the pH of a solution is 7, tell me about the math and what that 7 number represents and how it's derived.

 

I've been watching these posts for quite a while.  I realize I'm a little slow on replying, but to be honest...  Once you've reached ad hominem attacks (which this certainly is) you've lost.

[Carl G]

 

Gee. At current (high) estimates for sea level rise, your 4 foot map will show what SF airport looks like in 400 years   Meh. The coastline is ever-changing. Look at this map from 200 years ago and compare it to today. Lots of build out on what was flood plain originally. Your appeals are to the emotional sky is falling crowd. Evidence shows there is not catastrophic calamity from a few inches of sea level rise...UNLESS you build in reclaimed flood plains. Like, um, SF airport.

 

http://www.sfei.org/...k/pastpres1.gif

 

All my east-coast relatives tell me California is going to fall into the sea long before 400 years, so according to them I think we are ok.

[nomad]

The reason for all this global warming is simple: we are between ice ages. That is all. Your welcome. Thread closed!

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Joe,  the only reason I used 4 feet is because 4thgen asked the question  --->  What would happen if sea levels rose 4 feet.  I responded. 

 

And I don't quite understand why you think it's only an emotional sky-is-falling issue.  Take a look at the pictures of recent tidal flooding on the east coast: 

 

https://www.washingt...outheast-coast/

 

For the owners of property in these areas, the sky has already fallen.  Imagine what their property values are now.  Do you think anyone will purchase any of these properties knowing that this type of flooding will occur 2-4 times a month?  And the forecast is for the flooding to get worse?  This is just the leading edge of a huge financial disaster.  Very high priced property along our coasts will eventually have a value of $0.  Who is going to cover those losses? 

 

My point all along has been that GW isn't an environmental problem.  It's an economic problem.  And we're starting to see tangible evidence of it.

DougP - yes, epithets abound (but not too many from me).  They can call me anything they want.  I don't care.

[Chris]

My point all along has been that GW isn't an environmental problem.  It's an economic problem.  And we're starting to see tangible evidence of it.

Wasn't your point before that Man is responsible for the CO2 rise and thus responsible for the rise in Earth temperatures...? You seem to not be pushing that anymore...?  I don't think anyone here is arguing that the climate is not changing one way or another and does not ever change.  Change is constant over time. The argument is why, what is responsible, what drives the Earths climate changes over time....?  The other argument that goes along with that is CO2 the driver or the byproduct of increased temperatures on Earth.  Clearly with the evidence I have posted it is not Man driving climate change.  And economics, think about it.  A warmer Earth means you can get more biomass growing further up in the Northern latitudes, more lumber, more crops, maybe 2 crops per year when you only got one before like up in Canada.  You might get less at the equator, who knows.  Man will adapt just fine.  There are many papers out there that point out the advantages of a warming Earth.  Not all of it is bad, it is probably a wash.  Now if the houses down in Malibu drop into the sea I really won't feel sorry for them because they have been blocking my view of the ocean with their darned fences and access to the beaches down there my whole life.  Every time I visit they piss me off....!   Can't see a thing, can't get to the beach.  Except for Kurt Russell's house, I hope his house would be OK because I like him.   Chris 

 

Advantages of Global Warming

More usable land

Extra CO2 for plants

Arctic’s resources become accessible

Increased interest in alternative energy

Arctic, Antarctic, Siberia, and other frozen regions of earth may experience more plant growth and milder climates.
The next ice age may be prevented from occurring.

Increased food supply, less famine.
Northwest Passage through Canada's formerly-icy north opens up to sea transportation.
Less need for energy consumption to warm cold places.
Fewer deaths or injuries due to cold weather.

Less deforestation for heating fuel.
Longer growing seasons could mean increased agricultural production in some local areas.
Mountains increase in height due to melting glaciers, becoming higher as they rebound against the missing weight of the ice.
Boundary disputes between countries over low-lying islands will disappear.