70 replies to this topic

[Orangetj]

QUOTE (DalOwnerX3 @ Feb 4 2004, 12:17 PM)

Like Bordercollie, I have a 4 yr old girl and there's no way she would go on one of those trips. But I wonder if she was a boy, would I be so adamant about it.

I, too, have a young daughter. I wonder why it is that we as a society are not as concerned about the morals of our boys as we are about the morals/innocence of our girls? Why are we less concerned about boys having casual sex than we are about our girls? Is it the risk of pregnancy? If so, we should be teaching our boys that it is as much their responsibility to take care of a child as it is the girl's. Is it the risk of rape? Maybe if we spent more time teaching our boys to treat girls/women with respect rather than putting all of the onus on girls, this would be less of a concern. Just a thought.

[Steve Heard]

Hey Oranj

Parents of boys worry, too, I hope. I know I would. For boys, I'd worry about them getting drunk and bold, ending up in a fight, or in jail, or hurting some girl, or being accused of impropriety.

The fact is that girls are the weaker sex. Men consider themselves hunters, and women, prey. As the parent of two girls, I have to make them see things that way. Afterall, what is the ultimate accomplishment for most boys? What do they most want to be able to brag about? What are they encouraged to do, by each other, sometimes their male siblings and male parent, and of course the media?

[tessieca]

And what about the fact that boys have absolutely zero control over whether the mother of their child kills it? That should be a big concern for males.

[Steve Heard]

That is a worry to many males, but they worry that she won't kill it, and they'll be forced to deal with the baby they made.

[forumreader]

Wow, Stevethedad! Do you really believe that is the prevailing attitude? The concern that Tessieca mentioned is one that my husband and I share with regard to our boys.

The "boys will be boys" attitude is disturbing to me. How sad that many simply accept that males are the "naughty" gender. -- We have a serious responsibility to form our boys to become moral and sensitive adult men. -- I want my boys to be the friends and companions that your daughters can trust.

However, observing some of the female middle school behavior..... well, let's just say that worries run in both directions.

Parenting is just an awesome responsibility, no matter how you look at it.

[Steve Heard]

Unfortunately, I do. As I said, parents of boys do worry to.

The fact remains that women are seen as prey, or prizes. Actually, sex with them is the prize, in the eyes of most men IMHO.

Boys, and men, seem to fear commitment more than anything else, and most aren't interested in becoming a father before marriage. They know the financial burden it will place on them, not to mention expectations of raising a child and giving up the 'fun' of chasing women.

Yes, there are lots of girl behaving badly, too. I have great communication with my daughters, and I hear things that would shock most.

For example, my 15 year old liked a particular boy. One of her friend's did, too. What did the 'friend' do? She called the boy and invited him over for sex while her parents weren't home. He jumped at the chance, but now ignores the girl in public. My daughter was hurt and confused by this, and I am sure she wondered about the wisdom of the act. She no longer hangs out with the either one of them, and tells me that the boy is a pig, will do it with anyone, and has asked her for sex on several occasions.

Another example: A year ago, I found two older boys, I later found out they were 17 and 19, standing over a passed out girl in the parking lot of Red Robin. They were talking to her trying to make her get up. As I approached and asked what was going on, they pulled her to her feet, saying, ''Nothing! She's allright!". The girl, slumped against one of the guys and said, 'I'm just hella tired'.

They hurried her away as I called the cops.

What shocked me was when my daughter told me that the girl was only 12 years old, and had quite a reputation with the guys in the area.

Now, I wonder what the boys would be thinking if either of these girls got pregnant? Marriage? The joys of fatherhood?

Possibly not.

[NRB]

Unfortunately, I think Steve is right. I hope things have changed in the last 15 years or so but I know first hand that most boys don't want to deal with a girlfriends pregnancy. And it's not just the uneducated ones either. I got pregnant right after graduation (this was my mistake and I took full responsibility for it) My boyfriend was a smart, affluent, straight A student. When I told him about the pregnancy he told me he was too young to have a child, that he had big plans for his first born (not to mention his own plans to attend a private University) and my pregnancy didn't fit into his design for his life. He then offered me money to "get it taken care of" and hounded me with phones calls until I finally lied and said I did. I never heard from him again until I was forced to get his signature on the adoption papers! What amazes me to this day is that he had no concern for
me, what I was going through or what I wanted to do. Now, I realize that
teenagers can be pretty self centered but I hope all of you who are raising boys teach them to have respect for women and to take responsibility for their actions. I know that my boys will because if they don't do it on their own...I'll make them!!!!!

Just so you know, something good came out of all of this. My daughter was adopted by a wonderful family and I get to see her as often as I wish. She even spent a week with me this past summer! She'll be 15 next month and she's living proof that I made a good decision after my initial stupid one! Good thing I didn't go on the senior trip to Mexico because, looking back, I wouldn't trust myself to make the right choices.

[tessieca]

NRB: I need to take a moment and thank you for doing the honorable thing when faced with a mistake you made as a youth. Most would have taken the "easier" way out. You did what was probably harder for you because it was best for someone else. I am a "sister" in some respects. I made my mistake at age 19 and went through six months of adoption counseling before I had a breakdown believing I could not give up my baby. I ended up marrying and keeping her. She is a beautiful, sweet, capable 23-year-old living in SoCal.

[forumreader]

NRB & Tessieca:
What wonderful decisions you made! I can imagine it must have been a very difficult time for you, but I am so glad that you've both brought beautiful children into this world. I do work at a local maternity home, and am frequently moved by the brave women who make these tender and selfless choices. There is so much we can all learn from people like you.

That said, I refer to my previous post regarding the attitude that "Boys will be boys." It is disturbing that as a society we seem to accept this notion. Also a concern is the theory that males are just "hardwired" to shy away from commitment. Instead of accepting these questionable reasons for male behavior, we should be focusing on how we can help our boys grow to become moral and responsible adults. (And happier ones, too!)

So, like NRB, my husband and I are trying to raise our sons to be gentlemen. At least we will break our backs trying! (And that means no unsupervised trips to Maui.)

[folsomBlondie]

That's why we need God in your life. You need to bring your kids to Vietnam and raise them there.......

Boy will be boy attitude is wronged, and it does not have to be that way.

[OctoberLily]

I have two boys and they are teenagers. I do not go by the "Boys will be boys" attitude - so please try to refrain from making generalized statements of parents of boys or of boys in general. Not ALL boys are irresponsible and self centered - some actually step up to the plate when it comes to raising their kids. My younger brother is one of them. He is a single parent of 2 beautiful pre-teen girls himself. He has always been there for them and loves them very much.

Orangetj - my son does have a job and is planning to use the money he saves for a "graduation trip". He is trying to assert his independence because he will be 18 yo when the time comes. I'm trying to guide him to make the right decision and using a travel agency that specifically caters to teens is one I've put my foot down and said a big fat "NO!" on. A lot of the kids in my sons group that have plans for a grad trip all have jobs and are pretty good kids but, you're right, you never know who they will meet on these trips. It's hard to protect them when you have no control of who will be influencing them at the other end of the trip.