192 replies to this topic

[camay2327]

VOTE NO people... Now it all comes out....


http://www.sacbee.co...tory/29290.html

Maloofs' demands for arena unusual
No other NBA teams have similar deals, a sports economist says.
By Mary Lynne Vellinga and Terri Hardy - Bee Staff Writers

Last Updated 8:44 am PDT Tuesday, September 26, 2006
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A1

Kings owners Joe and Gavin Maloof are seeking concessions from Sacramento that appear unprecedented in the world of NBA arena construction.

The Maloofs walked out of negotiations earlier this month, saying local officials reneged on giving them 8,000 parking spaces and a final say on what new restaurants or businesses would open next to the arena proposed for the downtown railyard.

Andrew Zimbalist, a sports economist at Smith College in Northampton, Mass., said he could think of no new NBA arena deal anywhere in the country that has anywhere near 8,000 spaces, an assertion supported by Bee visits to new arenas in Memphis, Tenn., and Indianapolis. "That seems excessive," Zimbalist said.

He also said he knew of arena owners who were able to prevent snack carts from operating outside the front doors but not restaurants.

Sacramento officials deny they made such promises, pointing out that there's no mention of them in the term sheet signed by the Maloofs and city and county negotiators.

In response to the Maloofs' angry exit, officials have gone back to the drawing board with railyard developer Thomas Enterprises to address some of the family's concerns. But 8,000 parking spaces aren't likely to be forthcoming.

Sacramento Assistant City Manager John Dangberg said he has been in contact with Kings President John Thomas, signaling a thawing of relations. Dangberg said a revised site plan from arena architect Ellerbe Beckett should be ready for delivery to the Maloofs by midweek.

On Monday, Joe Maloof reiterated his version of events. "We're truthful people; we don't lie," he said.

He insisted local officials went back on a promise on the parking issue, and said they also promised his family the right to approve businesses that could end up competing with those they want to open on the arena/entertainment center's ground floor.

Yet the concessions the family seeks would be highly unusual in the NBA today. The parking deal far surpasses the number of spaces that normally come with a publicly financed arena and could boost the cost of a $500 million arena by $135 million.

"It would be unprecedented, certainly for a downtown location," said Sacramento County Supervisor Roger Dickinson, who represented the county in the negotiations.

One of the people responsible for bringing the Vancouver Grizzlies to Memphis said the Maloofs' insistence on 8,000 paid parking spaces would have been unthinkable to leaders there, where a $250 million arena opened in 2004. "I don't know how the city and county could ever agree to those terms," said Tom Jones, former senior adviser to the Shelby County mayor.

Joe Maloof said Monday that his team needs the money from 8,000 spaces -- the same number that regularly fill for events at Arco Arena in Natomas. Today, the team controls more than 11,000 surface parking spaces around Arco Arena, which was built with private money.

"We thought we had an agreement with the city and county that all the parking revenue would stay with the team, which is what we need," Maloof said.

Thomas, team president, said the Kings would be taking a big chance in moving to the railyard and need to protect their revenue and have some control over what moves in next door. "There's a huge difference between this project and virtually any other," he said. "We're moving a thriving business into an open field that today is a toxic wasteland."

Parking is worth millions of dollars annually to the Maloofs. It costs $10 to park at Arco Arena today. If the new arena hosted 200 events a year, a conservative figure, and filled 5,000 spaces each time, the Kings would earn $10 million a year from parking.

The figure would go much higher if the team controlled the parking during the day, renting it to downtown office workers.

Dickinson said event parking rates probably would go up to at least $15 as well.

Most new downtown sports venues control few parking spaces compared with the number of people attending events.

The San Francisco Giants get the revenue from 5,000 spaces, Dickinson said, but they have a seating capacity of 41,503, compared with about 18,000 seats planned for the new Kings arena.

The new arena built in Charlotte, N.C., contains no on-site parking. In Memphis, the 2-year-old FedExForum, cited by the Maloofs as a model for their arena, includes 1,300 VIP parking spaces in a garage next door.

The Indianapolis Pacers have a right to use 1,400 parking spaces in a city garage adjacent to Conseco Fieldhouse but don't get the money from them, said Rick Fuson, executive vice president.

Local officials said surrounding a downtown arena with parking defeats one of its main purposes -- to help enliven the area around it. If the Kings relocate downtown, officials hope that at least some patrons will take light rail rather than driving.

A report released Monday by Sacramento Regional Transit found that a significant portion of fans -- up to 41 percent in the case of AT&T Park in San Francisco -- take public transit to new downtown sports facilities.

City and county negotiators say they told the Kings that if voters approved a quarter-cent sales tax in November, about $45 million of the money raised would go to pay for a new garage next to the arena with about 2,000 parking spaces. The team would get the money from those spaces.

Even 2,000 parking spaces is generous compared with the parking provided for owners of other NBA teams, such as those in Memphis and Indianapolis. In those cities, owners have tapped other revenue streams, seemingly finding corporate sponsors for every inch of their space.

The Memphis arena's parking garage is sponsored by Ford Motor Co. FedEx not only holds the naming rights to the arena in Memphis, it also sponsors a level of luxury suites in Indianapolis. Meanwhile, patrons park in spots vacated by daytime commuters.

Memphis has a "car culture" like California's, and most fans drive to games, said Andy Dolich, the Grizzlies' president of business operations. Workers at corporations such as AutoZone Inc. and First Tennessee Bank often leave their cars at work and walk to the arena.

The Maloofs' demand that they control which businesses locate outside their front door is also unusual.

On Beale Street in Memphis, the restaurants are part of the draw. "Other (team) owners would love to have their own Beale Street," Dolich said.

The Pacers' Fuson said his team also benefits from being in the heart of a lively, restaurant-filled downtown. But he did not cast judgment on the Maloofs for trying to extract every dollar of revenue they can.

A new arena is no guarantee of economic success, he said. When it opened in 1999, Conseco Fieldhouse attracted sellout crowds. But attendance has fallen in recent years. Memphis, too, has seen crowds dwindle.

"I would advise anyone in our business to get whatever they can," Fuson said.

About the writer:

* The Bee's Mary Lynne Vellinga can be reached at (916) 321-1094 or mlvellinga@sacb

[camay2327]

Read this, then vote NO.

http://www.sacbee.co...tory/29290.html

[cw68]

R.E. Grasswich reports in the Sac Bee on 9-25, that Sacramento city officials are quietly working up contingency plans, in case the voters turn down raising taxes for the arena.

"This sort of talk is very sensitive right now, obviously," said Sacramento City Councilman Steve Cohn.

The article indicates the new arena under Plan B could be built privately.

OMG what is the world coming too? Building new Arena WITHOUT RAISING SALES TAXES, can this be legal?

Just because they do this in Kansas City, Memphis and Indianapolis doesn't mean they can do it here!

The nerve of some forward thinking politicians....NOT asking for a tax increase!

You've got it wrong, Robert. Both were financed with taxes, but the public didn't vote the taxes in. Neither Indianapolis or Memphis uses a referendum process. Their elected officials made the decision to use public money.

Indianapolis' Conseco field "The public is shouldering most of the burden for the new facility through a variety of new taxes, including an increased levy on food and drink in restaurants throughout an eight-county area." Eight-county people, and we argue about just one county!

Re FedEx Forum in Memphis: "Financing for the $250 million arena came from the public. FedEx Corporation paid the Memphis Grizzlies an undisclosed amount for an undisclosed amount of time for naming rights."

[john]

folks, please stop creating new topics about this.

[Robert Giacometti]

You've got it wrong, Robert. Both were financed with taxes, but the public didn't vote the taxes in. Neither Indianapolis or Memphis uses a referendum process. Their elected officials made the decision to use public money.

Indianapolis' Conseco field "The public is shouldering most of the burden for the new facility through a variety of new taxes, including an increased levy on food and drink in restaurants throughout an eight-county area." Eight-county people, and we argue about just one county!

Re FedEx Forum in Memphis: "Financing for the $250 million arena came from the public. FedEx Corporation paid the Memphis Grizzlies an undisclosed amount for an undisclosed amount of time for naming rights."

CW,

Did they raise sales taxes to finance the complete construction costs of building these Arenas?

There is a difference between spending "public" money and raising sales taxes!

We are being asked to raise sales taxes to pay for the entire construction of an Arena, not for approval to use public money! The BOS can use "public" money to build this Arena without our approval.

Lets be fair and compare apples to apples!

[camay2327]

John, I agree, we only need this original topic....

Get rid of the other ones...

[cw68]

CW,

Did they raise sales taxes to finance the complete construction costs of building these Arenas?

There is a difference between spending "public" money and raising sales taxes!

We are being asked to raise sales taxes to pay for the entire construction of an Arena, not for approval to use public money! The BOS can use "public" money to build this Arena without our approval.

Lets be fair and compare apples to apples!

Here's some info I found:

Memphis:
"The Memphis Grizzlies paid nothing toward the 2-year-old, $250 million FedEx Forum, which Magic officials have pointed to as a model arena."

FedEx paid for naming rights and the rest was publicly funded through a 2% rental car surchange, a hotel and motel tax and added fee to local ulitites customers, from the City and the County.


still checking on Indy...

[Robert Giacometti]

Here's some info I found:

Memphis:
"The Memphis Grizzlies paid nothing toward the 2-year-old, $250 million FedEx Forum, which Magic officials have pointed to as a model arena."

FedEx paid for naming rights and the rest was publicly funded through a 2% rental car surchange, a hotel and motel tax and added fee to local ulitites customers, from the City and the County.
still checking on Indy...

Hey I almost forgot....I just knew you couldn't walk away from this discussion!

Once your infected with "Bear Fan Disease" ( we don't want to use the intials)....one just can't walk away from any debate. One gets this disease from decades of defending 2 & 14 Bear teams as being better than the Packers who win superbowls.

I'll keep the question about your maiden name or your mothers maiden name private....but sense I am up against 2 forces that won't budge!

I'll feebly attempt to persuade you to vote NO on these measures....but knowing what I am up against, I know I have NO chance of ever accomplishing that!

Glad to see you back in the game, even though you are on the wrong side!

[DrKoz23]

Cv,

Did you see that article in yesterdays Bee by Grasswich about the Arena '' Plan B" secret talks. Looks like Sac City officials are planning to build an Arena without raising sales taxes.

Why not help them get their wish and save your tax dollars and vote NO on these measures? You can use the dollars that wouldn't taken from you from this tax to go to the new Arena along with everyone else!

Didn't his column also state that "Plan B" might not even be an arena?

It was quoted... "There may be a consensus to find another ownership group. And maybe it would be baseball... not basketball."

Huh? Is there something I missed. Is the city going to make a pitch to get the A's here?

The River Cats have been very successful in Sacramento... and even only being AAA they draw more than 10,000 per game. The A's being MLB don't even draw 20,000 fans per game.

It is starting to make some sense... and I could see this city definitely supporting the A's!

Here's some info I found:

Memphis:
"The Memphis Grizzlies paid nothing toward the 2-year-old, $250 million FedEx Forum, which Magic officials have pointed to as a model arena."

FedEx paid for naming rights and the rest was publicly funded through a 2% rental car surchange, a hotel and motel tax and added fee to local ulitites customers, from the City and the County.
still checking on Indy...

Robert,

Would you be more against the Memphis model... since they put a fee on local utilities. In terms of the poor... that is just about as bad as a sales tax... wouldn't you think?

[Robert Giacometti]

Didn't his column also state that "Plan B" might not even be an arena?

It was quoted... "There may be a consensus to find another ownership group. And maybe it would be baseball... not basketball."

Huh? Is there something I missed. Is the city going to make a pitch to get the A's here?

The River Cats have been very successful in Sacramento... and even only being AAA they draw more than 10,000 per game. The A's being MLB don't even draw 20,000 fans per game.

It is starting to make some sense... and I could see this city definitely supporting the A's!
Robert,

Would you be more against the Memphis model... since they put a fee on local utilities. In terms of the poor... that is just about as bad as a sales tax... wouldn't you think?

Koz,

I'd be more supportive of the Memphis model, as long as there was a surcharge on seats at the Arena. Also, the additional taxes on rental cars/hotel rooms/dining establishments all would contribute something to the Arena. It just seems a more equitable way to do this as then those who are using the Arena are paying more of the cost for its construction.

I don't know how or if the surrounding counties would participate with a tax on utilities, but that would need to be included somehow.

Since utilities already have programs in place to subsidize the poor, it could be realtively easy to set some sort of income level to be exempt from paying the tax. It will be extremely difficult to do that with sales taxes. If you tried to put a program in place exempting the poor from paying sales taxes, not only would it be a bureaucratic nightmare, just imagine the abuses and cheating that would go on.

I'm not opposed to using "public" money to build an Arena. I feel those using the Arena or benefitting from it the most should pay more of its cost of construction. There is no perfect system to do this but just raising sales taxes on everyone from one county is probably the worst way possible to do this.

[DrKoz23]

Koz,

I'd be more supportive of the Memphis model, as long as there was a surcharge on seats at the Arena. Also, the additional taxes on rental cars/hotel rooms/dining establishments all would contribute something to the Arena. It just seems a more equitable way to do this as then those who are using the Arena are paying more of the cost for its construction.

I don't know how or if the surrounding counties would participate with a tax on utilities, but that would need to be included somehow.

Since utilities already have programs in place to subsidize the poor, it could be realtively easy to set some sort of income level to be exempt from paying the tax. It will be extremely difficult to do that with sales taxes. If you tried to put a program in place exempting the poor from paying sales taxes, not only would it be a bureaucratic nightmare, just imagine the abuses and cheating that would go on.

I'm not opposed to using "public" money to build an Arena. I feel those using the Arena or benefitting from it the most should pay more of its cost of construction. There is no perfect system to do this but just raising sales taxes on everyone from one county is probably the worst way possible to do this.

I would be more supportive if there was an increase in fees for rental cars and hotel rooms. It looks like Memphis and KC both took advantage of this approach. I also think that even if a small surcharge ($1) was added to all tickets sold at the arena... the public would be able to swallow the deal a little more easily. This at least gives the impression that those using the facility are paying for it.

With the Maloofs basically walking away from the table and the city/county willing to go it alone... I think a little more thought needs to go into a form of financing (whether it be an arena or stadium) before we blindly support this deal. I am a little nervous voting "yes"... realizing that the arena still could go in North Natomas with little economic benefit to downtown Sacramento.

I think the latest polls have placed the measures near 30 percent... so I don't think the "No" vote has to worry too much about this passing. In order for this to pass in the first place... they needed to run a perfect campaign... and they are far from it.

[iJason]

VOTE YES! Don't forget that this tax increase is not just for an arena, it's also to improve the quality of life in Sacramento County, which has been needed for quite a time. Money could be used to improve levees, schools, etc.

[camay2327]

RIGHT, I believe that.....


Hold your breath while you wait...

[camay2327]

Read the article on the Arena in SacBee today. Look at the polls. Hope the trend continues...

Vote NO people.


Exclusive Bee poll: Arena sales tax hike in deep trouble

Survey shows little support, even among Kings fans


http://www.sacbee.co...tory/32085.html

[UncleVinny]

Right!

New sales tax: Favor 23%
Opposed 58%


Hey, Maloofs . . . don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way back to Nevada.