165 replies to this topic

[FolsomJunior00]

QUOTE (folsom_dad @ Jun 23 2004, 08:02 PM)

Well Folsom, how do you feel now. Are our daughters still liars, sluts, bitches, etc? The teenagers at Folsom High should be embarrassed at their behavior. My daughter's life has been screwed up and you have made her out to be the perpetrator. Shame on you!!!

Folsomdad, as much as ai feel for you and your family, i dont think getting angry at the teens at Folsom High are the right answer. Its not going to help your daughters cause at school, thats for sure. I must ask, what if your daughter wasnt involved in the case, but someone else's daughter was? I can surely bet that you would have been involved int he rumors too. Sure, you can say "No, i would never do that" but its easier to say you wouldnt than to actually not do it. Its Folsom, the breeding ground for rumors all around. If you do anything stupid in Folsom, anything at all, it gets around to everyone you know real fast. Sad, but true. Im sorry, i dont think you would be the exception to the rule either

[bigsheldy]

QUOTE (folsom_dad @ Jun 23 2004, 08:02 PM)

......Well Folsom, how do you feel now. Are our daughters still liars, sluts, bitches, etc? The teenagers at Folsom High should be embarrassed at their behavior. My daughter's life has been screwed up and you have made her out to be the perpetrator. Shame on you!!!

Yes...yes I do think that your daughters are "liars, sluts, bitches, etc". Why? Because I've seen it first hand. Look at the case. She consented at one point to have sex with a kid in a bathroom at school. I would call her a slut. Then she supposedly tells him to stop after they have already started...she is a (censored). THEN she goes and says he raped her. That would mean she's lying. If she wanted it (which she did) then it's not rape. I don't care what the law says, it's not rape to me. She is a slut, she is a (censored) and she IS a perpetrator. Your daughter's life isn't messed up, the guy's life is messed up. There were several girls who also said he raped them and they later retracted their statement or they had no evidence. Is that not lying right there? Does that not show that all of the girls could be lying? Also, what do us teenagers at Folsom High have to be ashamed of? Everyone heard about what happened and everyone knew that the guy didn't rape anyone. Who gets raped and doesn't yell? Who gets raped and then tells their friends to say they got raped as well? Nobody. Think about it.

[firecracker]

Okay Folsom parents let be honest do you really think you know your children? When you your child walks out that front door more than likely they show a different peronality/attitude that you haven't seen. Some of them even live double lives meaning they act pristine in front of Mom and Dad and show a very different side to their peers. It's sad but true I have seen it. That's why it is so hard to believe when we hear that our children have done something wrong. We say to ourselves, "my child would never do anything like that". That's why it's so important to really talk to our children and know what they are doing and who they are with the majority of the time.

Most of us moved here in hopes of raising our children in a nice community but in order for it to remain a good community we have to raise our children to be good people otherwise it will not stay that way. I have seen nice communities go downhill because the children did not turn out right.

It's sad to say that more than likely these girls may be telling the truth and possibly this boy is one who has never had to be accountible for actions until now.

Yes it's possible to raped with people in the next room and not be heard due to someone holding their hand over your mouth or intimidating you an object such as a knife (which I have not heard this in this cause)

Yes it's possible for a smaller man to overpower a girl. Boys to have more upper body stress than girls.

If this really occured I do feel for the girls as they will never be the same and will have difficulty trusting others.

[folsom_dad]

BigSheldy,

Did you sit in on any of the testimony? Obviously not. The testimony was clear. It is now a matter of public record. The judge even stated that the girls testimony was clear and credible. You are so misguided that I almost did not reply because I know that I will not be able to convince you.

You state "She consented at one point to have sex with a kid in a bathroom at school." Did you read what I wrote? Read it again. I am not making anything up or exaggerating.

I'd like to know what you saw first hand? You saw nothing. You have painted a picture in your head. Because of pride and a fear of admitting that you are wrong you will fight to prove your point. If there was something to prove these girls were lying, why didn't the defense council prove it?

Vent if you must...

[pampChefLady]

Steve,
Thanks for your post - you are SO RIGHT ON!! Very clearly spoken and impossible to argue with IMO!

FolsomDad,
Thank you for giving us a little more of the facts that help support our gut feelings.

Key points to me: the kid lied to get her in there, the psychiatrist said the kid uses sex as stress relief (like most rapist/serial killers), and the judge, who knows ALL of the evidence presented, believed the girls' story and found the kid guilty. Remember, the judge knows very well that if there had been a "reasonable doubt" he'd have to say not-guilty. To think that one knows the truth better than the judge who heard from dozens of witnesses because she/he "heard" stuff at school is ludicrous and shows a real lack of maturity.

I'm very sorry for the victims that this had to happen to them, and I hope that the whole community has learned something from it.

Sadly,
Lisa

[Hanalei]

Folsom Dad,
You are so right about most of us not having very many facts. I was just writing on what I read in the Bee. And that fact that you were in the court room means you certainly know what you speak.
I just wanted to clarify, I feel very sympathetic to the girls and their families. For me, that went without saying. *But* I also was expressing empathy for the PARENTS of the boy...I never said I felt bad for the boy. I have a son and I can only imagine how devastated his parents are that 10 years of his life are now gone. I don't think that's wrong to feel badly for them. They must somehow blame themselves like most parents would.
It's a lesson for me to teach my son the exact law of what rape is. I wonder if this 15 year old understood that law when he was doing what he was doing.

I also wonder about your daughter. Do you see her as a completely innocent victim who was led blindly into a boy's bathroom or do you think she acted foolishly?
I wonder how she feels about you being on this board and telling more details about it. If I were her, I think I'd want to move to a different state.
It's such a small town.

[firecracker]

Folsom Dad, I commend your daughter for telling you. I think that would be one of the hardest things in the world to have to tell your father that you were raped. I know for a fact, when I was a teenager in the 80's I could not of done it.

And I would not be surprised if after the way your daughter was treated by some of the Folsom kids and parents if future girls are raped they keep quiet due to the lack of support your daughter received.

[Steve Heard]

What the reactions of many of these posters demonstrates is that as a society, we've changed the way we view sex, but not the way we view women.

'Hey, it's just sex, don't ruin the guy's life over it' is the message we get.

I know women who have been raped. I bet we all do. The ones who have told me about it have never gotten over it, years after the perpetrators were set free. It is a life sentence.

Did the girl act foolishly? Of course she did. She was naive at best.

Don't you see? The same excuses have been used for years. "She acted foolishly by: wearing that dress, going out, drinking, being alone with a guy she hardly knew, living alone, going to that part of town, jogging through the park." The list goes on and on.

Do we 'act foolishly' when we buy a nice car, the type that theives love to steal? Do we act foolishly when we trust an investment advisor without a thourough background investigation? Do we act foolishly when we leave our garage doors open?

Perhaps we do. Does that excuse the criminal who took advantage of that fact?

I'll never forget the case of a police department who ran a sting operationi, where they put a VCR in the back seat of a car, parked it in a bad part of town, then, over a period of hours, arrested thief after thief for stealing the VCR. What brought the case to national attention is when one of the lawyers claimed it was entrapment, because everyone knows you'd have to be a fool to leave a VCR in a car, in that part of town.

By the way, the judge didn't buy it (damn conservatives!).

Anyway, let's not blame the victim anymore.

Even Charles MAnson had people who loved him and thought he was a great guy. Maybe he took his mother out on Mother's Day.

This kid may not be a Manson, but he is a rapist.

I don't have much sympathy for him.

[slowthegrowth]

Ok...I'm going to get beat down like an LA Dodger for this.....

But I pick my daughter up each day from FHS (or did when it was in session) and I never cease to be amazed by the incredibly slutty outfits these teenage girls are wearing. There are some that I would BET were prostitutes had I seen them anywhere else.

Is there any accountability on their end? Or...(God help me) on these kid's parents for letting them go to school like this?

PLEASE don't take this as defending ANYONE. The boys are absolutely responsible for their own actions....but are the girls as well?

[Chad Vander Veen]

^I believe the PC term for underage girls who dress that way is
prosti-tot

[firecracker]

Actually the parents should be responsible to the outfits their daughters wear. After all the money to buy the clothes more than likely came from the parents. heck I can remember my Dad throwing my clothes away because he thought my skirts were too short or my tops too low cut.

Today's teen girls are dressing way to old for their age. Just a few weeks ago my 6th grade son shows me a picture of a girl from his school he has a little crush on . I looked at the picture and said "How old is this girl? She looks too old for you. She looks like a 10th grader to me. I did not look like that at 12 or 13!"

But either way, a girl should not be attacked because of her appearance.

Let's put this back in the hands of the people responsible for the appearance and actions of their teens and that is "THE PARENTS".

[forumreader]

QUOTE (forumreader @ Apr 5 2004, 03:07 PM)

Experts call rape one of the most underreported crimes in America.  Why?  Many reasons, including feelings of fear, shame, guilt, and concerns of not being believed.   The US Dept. of Justice  estimates that somewhere in America a woman/girl is raped every 2 minutes. Only 16% of rapes are reported to law enforcement.

These are facts. They are not distant and impersonal statistics. They have become a reality for the community of Folsom, and a living nightmare for the victims and their families.

We look with accusing or questioning eyes at the victim. Is there any wonder why rape is such an underreported crime?!

In case this has not been said clearly enough to the victims, THANK YOU. Thank you for being so courageous in reporting the crime, and making our community a little safer. May your healing continue, and may you find hope and happiness ahead.

[bishmasterb]

forum,

Thanks for the info.

One statistic I also came across for date rape is "73% of those forced to have sex fail to recognize their experience as rape".

I don't know who did that study (the website I found it on is here.)

Regardless of it's technical accuracy, that would seem to indicate that there is a large grey area involved in date rape.

In the Folsom High case (which I know absolutely nothing about), the jury reached a unanimous verdict, I certainly don't know more than they did, I hope they used their heads.

[forumreader]

Thanks bish.

I am re-posting another link which I referenced earlier in this thread.

Rape Information

[FolsomJunior00]

Take it from a student at FHS, the clothes girls wear at FHS are very, VERY slutty (though for a guy like me i dont complain much). And, from what i have seen and experienced, many girls are very flirtatious, while wearing these clothes. Now, im not saying that they dont have the right to do this, which they obviously do, but it is a factor with some deranged boys out there who want sex.

And i also want to point out that I do feel for the boy, as well as the victims. Why do i feel sorry for the boy, do you ask? Because for some reason this kid smoked pot, drank, and was sex crazed. Was he born like that? Did he develop it? Did he just decide to do it one day? I dont know

You have heard the saying "Judge people by their actions" but i would like to take it a step forward: "Judge people by their actions and the situation that they were in at the time." I learned to look at people in this way this year from a great teacher of mine, and it has changed my thinking on mnay people in my life.

What if the boy was in a bad family (maybe not the case, but what if?)? What if the boy was in trouble some other way? Look at the situation he was in, and maybe you can feel some sadness for the boy's life.