627 replies to this topic

[CaptainSpaulding71]

maybe you missed my joke. you get what you pay for - that's all i'm saying.

what's the starting salary for a teacher in FCUSD (not in a specialty field)? How long does it take to get to the mid-scale that you quoted?

[sanmateo60]

No, 5.9% is from the state, like Robert said. 0% is added to the federal $ (but the district can't pay special ed teachers less because their program didn't give a COLA, now, can it). "Fuzzy math" is the union tagline. The state also gives money in some years for equalization between districts and for what they call a deficit reduction (they shave some off the top one year and then add it back in another year, depending on economy). This was all added together to get the 8.62%, but while some are okay with adding every single new dollar in to get a "COLA," somehow they are unwilling to adjust for those programs that got less than the 5.9% or no COLA at all.
Some of the past years used a formula that was set in advance since nobody knows from year to year what the COLA and real dollars will actually be. 75% of new dollars didn't seem to take into effect the huge increases in utilities and benefits that have occurred over the last several years. It also didn't consider the cost of the step and column increases that happen automatically (even when a new contract is delayed, these costs are not). It didn't consider that each textbook now averages about $100, and the district is nearing 20,000 students. So, just because a particular formula was used for a particular contract year doesn't make it mandatory that it continue.
Still is if one looks at salaries. If you want to go with what's been done in the past, benefits have never been added to salary schedules in order to do comparisons with other districts. That's CTA's line for this year.

District's budget is public. There are no hidden funds. Take a look. Special ed students who reside in the district must be served per law in the manner they need to be -- even if it includes sending them to a residential school in Colorado, with airfare and hotel for mom and dad to visit them. That must come out of general fund, so additional dollars for special education are spent when they are needed.
I don't think anyone on here has called the teachers "crappy," especially in our district. Even SacKen's toilet scrubbers probably scrub those toilets to the best of their ability despite their low pay. People should do the job they signed up for, do it to the best of their ability, and get paid at a rate that shows they are valued. The middle of the district's salary scale is near $48,000 (or $50,000+ if a 5.25% raise is concerned). I would hope that for that amount of pay Johnny and Janey are excellent spellers, readers, writers, scientists, and mathematicians.

Come on Tessieca, come clean, let everyone know you are the Folsom-Cordova School Board President and not some overly well informed resident. Why such disdain for teachers?

[sanmateo60]

maybe you missed my joke. you get what you pay for - that's all i'm saying.

what's the starting salary for a teacher in FCUSD (not in a specialty field)? How long does it take to get to the mid-scale that you quoted?

Starting pay pay can range anywhere from $37,429-$45,005 depending how many units you have beyond your BA and credential. There are 15 steps on the pay scale, so in your seventh year salary ranges between $45,620-$55,643. All teachers, from kindergarten to high school chemistry, are the same scale. After 21 years, all teachers make $73,838.

[tessieca]

maybe you missed my joke. you get what you pay for - that's all i'm saying.

what's the starting salary for a teacher in FCUSD (not in a specialty field)? How long does it take to get to the mid-scale that you quoted?

$37,429 is year 1 of a teaching job in FCUSD. With the 5.25% increase it would be $39,394.

Saint Matt: I don't know which teacher you might be (best guess is married to TM70), but why your obsession with the WHO gives you the facts as opposed to what the facts are? Absolutely no disdain for teachers, and I love nearly every one I've met in the 16 years I've had kids in this district. I especially love the ones who are professionals (not whiners) and most interested in their students (not in confrontation).

[EDF]

Here's some math...

with proposed raise they are offering, a year 1 teacher would get 39,394... FOR NINE MONTHS WORTH OF WORK.... and benefits on top of that... am I correct here...?

that monthly paycheck gross is.... 4,377...which is $39,394 divided by 9 months... so for a 12 month paying job that would mean a teacher in the 1st year is grossing approx $52,500 per year... not bad for a for a starting payroll...

so when you calculate the salaries on a monthly basis, and then add 3 more months that we have to work...then you can see how good they really have it....

am I missing something here...?

[banana]

I have 4 relatives that are or have been in the teaching profession. One was a teacher her entire life. She's now retired living in Spain. Another retired from a private sector job and taught while in retirement for over a decade before permanently retiring. Two are teachers today. One has been a teacher for 15yrs, the other for over 10.

Of the last two, both have attempted to work in the private sector more than once. One is on her 3rd attempt, this time in pharmaceutical sales.

As teachers, they both make/made low-mid $40s. In the private sector they made $65-$75k. Their thrill and happiness at making more money was short lived when they realized they had no pensions and had to contribute heavily towards their own retirement. Had/have to pay much more in premiums for their health coverage while getting less coverage. Only 2 weeks of paid vacation. Very long hours, no job security, etc. etc.

One of the more memorable comments of one of those relatives was - "once upon a time, we used to call this slavery" - The first time she left teaching after 5yrs for the higher pay. She lost 2 jobs. The first to layoffs 6 months after joining a company, the second to outsourcing 9 months after starting that job with a 10 month unemployment stint in between. She returned to teaching without complaint. Forgot about those experiences and tried again some 5yrs ago, and boomerang right back to teaching after 2 years of "pure hell" as she described it.

The 2nd relative is on her 3rd attempt at the private sector with prior 2 failed attempts due to similar issues.

They've both come to the realization that in their estimation, they would have to more than double their teaching salary to get paid what they consider to be something equitable to teaching. So one is trying to do just that in pharmaceutical sales. The other has resigned herself to teaching until retirement, and seems to be perfectly happy about it. The issues of low pay, etc. that she used to bring up, she hasn't mentioned in years.

The relative that taught in retirement after working in the private sector for 30yrs advised all his colleagues to go teach when they retire as it was one of the most fulfilling and in his words, easiest experiences of his life. If he hadn't taken ill, he'd still be teaching today.

Perhaps what you need to do is to stop complaining and come join the rest of us in the private sector for a while. You want higher pay than you get as a teacher? No problem, I'm sure that's easy to find in the private sector, but get ready to squeeze in your life into 2 weeks of vacation. If you're lucky 3 weeks. Expect to work weekends at times. Expect to be on calls with clients in Europe at 4am PST. Expect to be on calls with clients in Asia at 11pm PST. Expect to do both on the same day at times. Expect to travel and spend endless hours on plane rides to Europe and Asia to arrive just in time for a meeting and go straight from the airport to an office, and after spending all day on issues, expect to check in late night into a crappy hotel, and make sure you grab some fast food on the way because you're on a fixed daily meal allowance of $25 for all your meals.

For this, you will be paid more than $35-45k. Somewhere between $55-$80k, if you have an MBA from the right school you can make between $75k-$120k. On the high end you'll spend 80-90% of your life on the road. What I described above applies to $60-$80k+ range.

Then expect that out of that, you'll contribute to your 401k because you have zero pension, so you can peel back $15k. Your health coverage if it's a generous company will run you $3-4k and you'll be covered at 80%, the rest you'll pay out of your own pocket. Don't expect longevity. You can be let go the day after you're hired. If you don't make your quota numbers in any given quarter, you're fired, and even if you make your quota numbers there's no guarantee you won't be let go during the next downsizing. Those happen every 6 months or so at my company. I've survived 27 of them in the last decade, and have had a dozen jobs and just as many managers during that time.

You'll never be home at reasonable hours so you can expect to be buying a lot of take out food as there will be no time to cook. Bring pictures of your kids because you'll rarely get to see them. Sure, some of the senior executives who've put in their time bring their kids on trips with them, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Expect to find yourself scrambling to pull together presentations for unexpected client meetings because your executive changed his schedule at the last minute. Also expect the all nighter you put in to put together that proposal to go to waste because the meeting was moved to a month out. Oh, and don't think for 1 minute that after an all nighter you're not working the next day.

I've gone for 72 straight hours without sleep working on projects in corporate America. Perhaps you'll want to get into consulting as I did and spend most of your life on planes and hotels. Perhaps you'll want to work mergers & acquisitions where you'll constantly work weekends and scramble to put deals together. Maybe you'll prefer sales where you can lose your job on any given deal or each quarter when your performance is measured. There's always project management where you're loaded down on multiple projects and working across time zones and great stress. One project manager co-worker died next to me. Yes, that's right DIED of a heart attack under the constant stress of a global network rollout for a major entertainment company.

Another, a PhD professor from Columbia University lasted a whopping 3 months before crashing her car on the way home at 3am and resigning the very next day. Guess what she does today for a living. That's right! Teach.

Come on, join us in the private sector. It's all fun and games and a ton of money! Fresh meat is always welcome. Don't worry, I've never met a teacher that couldn't find his/her way back to teaching. Join us for a while. I guarantee you you'll make more money.

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Who doesn't? Call me if they start paying teachers $75k-$80k. I'll gladly give up my six figure job to go teach.

Oh I forgot to mention what others have already mentioned, if you manage to not get fired, laid off or outsourced and outperformed, you can expect a 1-3% raise. You won't get those every year. The rating systems are very simple - 1/2/3 or A/B/C - 1 rating applies to less than 5% company employees. 10% in some companies. They get 4-7% raises and if someone really likes you, you can hit anywhere between 8-15%. 2 ratings get 0-3% if it's a good year for the company. 3 ratings get 3 months of probation or fired immediately for nonperformance at manager's discretion. Here's the catch. You'd think that it's a nice bell curve with 5% on both ends, but it's not. The bottom 20% of employees get a 3 rating.

If you do decide to join us, make sure you save as much money as possible and have an emergency fund of 9-12 months of expenses. That's how long it'll take you to find the next job after you get fired, laid off, outsources, excessed, downsized, rightsized, or any other euphemism that you might encounter.

Please, I beg of you, leave the teaching profession and join the private sector. We really don't need teachers that don't realize how good they have it. If you make it and like the private sector you'll be happy. If you don't and return to teaching, you'll be a much better teacher and you'll never again complain about your pay.

It's a win-win scenario all around.

[banana]

Here's some math...

that monthly paycheck gross is.... 4,377...which is $39,394 divided by 9 months... so for a 12 month paying job that would mean a teacher in the 1st year is grossing approx $52,500 per year... not bad for a for a starting payroll...

$52k is what I made in my 5th year in the private sector. After the 5th year I earned 3wks of vacation time.

[sanmateo60]

$37,429 is year 1 of a teaching job in FCUSD. With the 5.25% increase it would be $39,394.

Saint Matt: I don't know which teacher you might be (best guess is married to TM70), but why your obsession with the WHO gives you the facts as opposed to what the facts are? Absolutely no disdain for teachers, and I love nearly every one I've met in the 16 years I've had kids in this district. I especially love the ones who are professionals (not whiners) and most interested in their students (not in confrontation).

I am a teacher in the district, not married to TM70 although I admire her tenacity, and have NEVER complained about what I get paid. Quite honestly I'm fed-up with the impasse and don't know whose "facts" to believe. Other than my students parents I am their greatest advocate. But, as an aside, I don't get the Saint Matt reference.

[banana]

Can't wait until the reality of globalization and outsourcing wave hits the sectors that have largely been sheltered. It's just a trickle now, but the tsunami is coming. Welcome to the party.

http://www.google.co...G=Google Search

http://www.signonsan...1n28tutors.html

"Few would begrudge using public money to give struggling students extra help. But some U.S. teachers decry the offering of instruction to Indian firms that pay full-time, college-educated tutors as little as $230 a month. They also complain that while the law requires teachers to be fully certified, private tutors have no such requirement.

"We are seeing teachers being laid off," said Nancy Van Meter of the American Federation of Teachers. "Given that situation, it's hard to understand why our tax dollars are being used to create jobs overseas."

The Indian tutoring companies say they are simply filling a market void by providing after-hours services with which some U.S. teachers don't want to be bothered, said Anirudh Phadke, an official with New Delhi-based Career Launcher. The firm, which also serves students in the Middle East, tutors about 1,500 American students in math alone. "

[cw68]

I am a teacher in the district, not married to TM70 although I admire her tenacity, and have NEVER complained about what I get paid. Quite honestly I'm fed-up with the impasse and don't know whose "facts" to believe. Other than my students parents I am their greatest advocate. But, as an aside, I don't get the Saint Matt reference.

San Mateo = Saint Matt

[sanmateo60]

San Mateo = Saint Matt

Thanks! I was raised Catholic and my Dad would kill me not knowing that.

[TM70]

Q

[Orangetj]

Come on Tessieca, come clean, let everyone know you are the Folsom-Cordova School Board President and not some overly well informed resident. Why such disdain for teachers?

I didn't see even a whiff of disdain for teachers in Tessieca's post.

[Chad Vander Veen]

$34.06 an Hour
That's how much the average public school teachers makes. Is that "underpaid"?
BY JAY P. GREENE AND MARCUS A. WINTERS
Friday, February 2, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

http://www.opinionjo...ml?id=110009612

[JMH]

Banana, you and my husband must for work the same company.