261 replies to this topic

[folsombound]

Roberto

Isn't it a fact that the law, and insurance companies, would claim that despite this woman's car pulling into the road, the guy that hit her was responsible, in that one must drive no faster than is safe, and that if he could not stop in time to avoid the accident, then he must not have been?

Crossing that street is very dangerous. One usually has to wait a bit before an opportunity to cross presents itself. She probably looked up the hill, then down, then up, then down, and when no one was coming down, or so she thought, she pulled out. Here come two boys puttin' the pedal to the metal, having a good ol' time, and they come around that corner to see her there. Too late to do anything. Had they been going at or below the speed limit, they would have had plenty of time to avoid the accident.

And she would have had plenty of time to make her turn.

[supermom]

Here is a hypothetical question to think about, at what point and time does the excessive speed weigh more than the fact the victim pulled out in front of them? Is it 55mph? 65 mph? 75 mph? This has always been my focus, not that they are punks/goodkids/ come from single parent families or wealthy families/ driving sports cars/ wanting their stereos back/etc. It has always been about how fast they were going in my mind and I'm not feeling real comfortable with the numbers we are now hearing from the police.

When I don't feel comfortable about something I always ask questions.

I may be wrong but I think the definition of excessive speed is going 15 mph over the posted speed limit or exceeding a safe speed during road conditions such as rain, fog.

(anyone notice there wasn't a posted speed limit sign in that area-but rather way up the road--at the time of the accident) Has that changed?

However, it is pretty hard for anyone to prove that someone did/not look before making a legal turn. I did read once that when a vehicle is completely stopped and another vehicle is moving-before the stopped vehicle moves they should count a certain amount by light poles in order to guesstimate the speed of oncoming traffic to ensure that they can safely pull out into traffic. I don't remember where I read that-but I remember thinking that usually counting the poles is for estimating an air cushion for vehicles when both vehicles are moving.

I just hope these kids are being represented well. One of the posters statements about the prosecuter choosing venue sounds as tho that poster is well versed in this situation and feels the kids are not being represented well? Sad-all the way around.

[Family Friend]

Crossing that street is very dangerous. One usually has to wait a bit before an opportunity to cross presents itself. She probably looked up the hill, then down, then up, then down, and when no one was coming down, or so she thought, she pulled out. Here come two boys puttin' the pedal to the metal, having a good ol' time, and they come around that corner to see her there. Too late to do anything. Had they been going at or below the speed limit, they would have had plenty of time to avoid the accident.

The Applebee's video shows that when she was driving through the parking lot and passed the front entrance of the restaurant the boys cars are already in view. She barely misses hitting two people walking in the parking lot because of her speed.

Then as she leaves the view of the camera before she gets to the stop sign and almost immediate the accident happened.

When you time the video she didn't have time to come to a complete stop. Let alone look both ways before entering the road.

[banana]

The Applebee's video shows that when she was driving through the parking lot and passed the front entrance of the restaurant the boys cars are already in view. She barely misses hitting two people walking in the parking lot because of her speed.

Then as she leaves the view of the camera before she gets to the stop sign and almost immediate the accident happened.

When you time the video she didn't have time to come to a complete stop. Let alone look both ways before entering the road.

I don't recall that video from Applebee's being shown on any local news shows. Where did you see it?

[Steve Heard]

The Applebee's video shows that when she was driving through the parking lot and passed the front entrance of the restaurant the boys cars are already in view. She barely misses hitting two people walking in the parking lot because of her speed.

Then as she leaves the view of the camera before she gets to the stop sign and almost immediate the accident happened.

When you time the video she didn't have time to come to a complete stop. Let alone look both ways before entering the road.

Wow! That's the first time anyone has made that claim! That should be front page news.

If that were true, then I think the parents of those boys would be fighting tooth and nail to get the charges dropped. The fact that they are pleading guilty would indicate otherwise.

How do you have access to that video? Can you post it so we can see it to?

I think you'd have a lot more people on the side of the kids if video shows her speeding, driving recklessly, and pulling out in front of speeding cars that were in plain view.

[Family Friend]

I don't recall that video from Applebee's being shown on any local news shows. Where did you see it?

I have 27 posts that are all on this topic. You should read some of them and catch up on my background on the case.


Also, I need to thank one of you for sending me a nice PM today. For some reason I have not been able to reply. I keep getting an error message every time I try to send you a PM.

[folsombound]

Wow! That's the first time anyone has made that claim! That should be front page news.

If that were true, then I think the parents of those boys would be fighting tooth and nail to get the charges dropped. The fact that they are pleading guilty would indicate otherwise.

How do you have access to that video? Can you post it so we can see it to?

I think you'd have a lot more people on the side of the kids if video shows her speeding, driving recklessly, and pulling out in front of speeding cars that were in plain view.

It does seem amazing that at this late date someone has come up with a video that would seem to show that the lady was at fault. And the video hasn't been made public. And the kids are going to plead guilty. Doesn't sound too plausible.

[Robert Giacometti]

Wow! That's the first time anyone has made that claim! That should be front page news.

If that were true, then I think the parents of those boys would be fighting tooth and nail to get the charges dropped. The fact that they are pleading guilty would indicate otherwise.

How do you have access to that video? Can you post it so we can see it to?

I think you'd have a lot more people on the side of the kids if video shows her speeding, driving recklessly, and pulling out in front of speeding cars that were in plain view.

Steve, If the boys were going 70 to 75, they are still speeding and their speed contributed to her death. I can understand why they are pleading guilty and basically asking for mercy from the judge.

If indeed what FF is posting is accurate, it might explain why more serious charges were NOT filed by the DA.

Camay, reminded all of us that since there won't be a jury trial we may never really know all the facts regarding this.

No matter what, this is a tragedy for all those involved and reminds all of us to slow down!

[Steve Heard]

I have 27 posts that are all on this topic. You should read some of them and catch up on my background on the case.

Is the tape link hidden in there somewhere?

[snutey]

Sounds like FF is holding back a lot of information that he/she has access to. I wanted to try and make some points. First of all I find it ironic that FF makes reference to the video, but not to the 53 page CHP MAIT report. Bob G, those 53 pages will answer everything you need to know about how it was possible that the kids were going the speed they were. No disrespect to your investigator buddy, but he was wrong on this one. (The CHP report is full of physics, analysis and many things I have no clue about). Let me clarify they were going at least 88.9 mph when the stealth hit his brakes. As for them being side by side, they were not. FF can tell you since he/she has seen the video, the white BMW was in front of the Stealth, both in the far right lane. The BMW hits the brakes and the Stealth swerves left to avoid hitting his buddy and smokes his brakes. This locks up his steering and he hits the teacher. The BMW traveled behind the teacher to avoid hitting her. lets not forget the 4 witnesses who the kids past approx. .3 miles from the crash site... not to mention another buddy in another vehicle.... those 4 witnesses put them at 80+ MPH.

As for the teacher not stopping...there are 6 seconds not accounted for in the video after she leaves the frame??

As for FF's post about trying to out the Officer who he alleges threatened him, I remember FF being the one who was quoting the report, not the Officer. I don't remember anyone on this forum mentioning any names. Shame on you for trying to do so....again. If you have a beef with someone on this forum, get a hold of them and try to work it out.

One last thing. If I ever die in a vehicle accident, please send me the officers that have the passion to do their job and make sure the facts are proven, even if I am in the wrong. Please don't send an officer who just wants to get the report done!

[Andrea V]

So that makes it ok for them to have broken the law, and killed a person? You libs slay me with your desires to make sure criminals aren't punished for their crimes

I really do NOT think that is what I said! Are you nuts? I think I was more talking about why people should slow down. And why she thought it was ok to go. I was NOT at all say it is ok to break the law!

If you did not understand what I was saying, then why did you not ASK, instead of spewing poop out of your mouth?

Never mind, you are not too bright!

[LexHillsmom]

I'm a broken record here but honestly most people have no idea how the justice system works and doesn't work. You think what you read in the paper is what happened as fact, you think when the "perpetrator" speaks it is truth, you think the Prosecutor is all about fighting for truth and justice and the Judge is an honest arbitrator of the facts, you think the victim is always just that...

In this case, it could be all those things above and it could be none. The media loves these stories and twists them to death. Meanwhile, the stadium roars for blood, thumbs up, thumbs down.

Some scoff at the idea of rehabiliation...and seem to think that harsh punishment is working in our society. Those of you that think that need to go do some research. The only thing that is working is the wheel of justice spinning round and round and greasing the palm of all involved.

I hope one day my post will make sense.

[snutey]

I really don't know what the punishment should be for these two Teens. I guess that I would ask people to put themselves in Mr. McNew's shoes or that of anyone who has lost a loved one in an incident where the accused made a (bad) choice that resulted in someone loosing their life. I really want to hear from some of the more vocal posters I have seen on this forum i.e, Family Friend, Robert Giacomo, Stevethedad. I am interested to hear what Family Friend has to say because he/she seems to have the information that was gathered about the crash. Robert G seems to have a lot of doubt about the findings and Stevethedad seems to be in the middle, waiting to hear more information. Please don't read this as a personal attack, just something I am very intersted in hearing.

honestly, I really don't know what I would want punishment to be if one of my family members was killed in a situation like this... I see LexHillsmom is online now, do you have a response to this question...

looking forward to what you all have to say...

[Robert Giacometti]

snutey, thanks for clarifying some things for me. I never knew the white BMW was in front of the Stealth. When I heard they were racing, naturally I thought they were be side by side.

If the white BMW, went behind the teacher after she pulled out that kinda indicates to me she really never saw the vehicles at all and that the cars were a lot closer to her than I imagined, before she pulled out

I know that one can go out and hire experts to do studies to support one side of an arguement or the other. Each expert can do their own studies and come up with different results, then attack the others as flawed. I suspect the defense realizes the teens were speeding above the limit, therefore even if they were to hire an expert to counter the CHP's report, it would still probably confirm they were driving very fast and possibly antagonize the Judge who will be issuing the sentence.

I'm still very skeptical that the kids were going 89 mph while attempting to go around that curve. That is extremely fast!

The video does add some interesting insight.

I still believe the teacher never saw the vehicles coming. Its been stated by others this is a very bad intersection with blind spots and I agree. This along with the kids speeding, added all together it produced a tragic accident and passionate feelings on both sides.

I'm sorry for all those who are affected by this including our Police and Fire personnel who have to respond to these things far to often. Its not something I would want to do!

[Family Friend]

I just hope these kids are being represented well. One of the posters statements about the prosecuter choosing venue sounds as tho that poster is well versed in this situation and feels the kids are not being represented well? Sad-all the way around.

The boys are being represented very well by their lawyers. My point is that the lawyers haven't had anything to do with getting the charges lowered. Everything has been done by the DA after they have looked at the police reports, CHP reports, and the video.

If you have followed the case you would remember that the Folsom Police wanted to charge:

1st try - all 5 boys were accused of -
Driver Dodge Stealth Second Degree Murder - 25 to life
Passenger Dodge Stealth Second Degree Murder - 25 to life
Driver BMW Second Degree Murder - 25 to life
Passenger BMW Second Degree Murder - 25 to life
Drive Black Honda Second Degree Murder - 25 to life

FPD Record 0-5

Also,
Driver Dodge Stealth Tried as Adult
Passenger Dodge Stealth Tried as Adult
Driver BMW Tried as Adult
Passenger BMW Tried as Adult
Drive Black Honda Tried as Adult

FPD Record 0-10

Then they wanted to lower the charges on 3 of the boys to:
Passenger Dodge Stealth Manslaughter Charges
Passenger BMW Manslaughter Charges
Drive Black Honda Manslaughter Charges

FPD Record 0-13

After that -
Passenger Dodge Stealth No Charges Filed
Passenger BMW No Charges Filed
Drive Black Honda No Charges Filed

FPD Record 0-16

Then they went with -
Driver Dodge Stealth Second Degree Murder - tried as adult
Driver BMW Second Degree Murder - tried as adult

FPD Record 0-18

The DA went with lower charges for both of the boys and not to charge then as adult.

FPD Record 0-20

The DA got the police file the day of the first hearing and asked the judge to keep the boys in custody -
Driver Dodge Stealth Keep in Custody Until Trial
Driver BMW Keep in Custody Until Trial

FPD Record 2-20

Then -

The DA that called the boys a "Danger to Society" and they needed to remain in custody was removed from the case.

Then at the next hearing it was the Judge and the new DA that agreed the boys needed to be released on house arrest pending further investigation.

FPD Record 0-22 Decision is reversed - let's take away those victory points.

So we have gone from 5 boys being told they would be getting 25 years to life - to 2 boys looking at a max. of 3 years.

The Folsom Police have lost every battle along the way in this case.

That is since the boys told the police that they were speeding in the first hour after the accident.

Why?