235 replies to this topic

[tessieca]

Nobody else can give you advice on such a decision.

If one wants a baby and one doesn't the default is no baby until you can bring Dad around.

The only thing the rest of us can offer is our own perspective of family and kids. I had two children when I was pretty young. I really didn't want to have more since I figured I gave up my young adulthood to take care of kids. There are 13 years between #1 and #4, so now I will also be an older adult with kids.

But, it really works out kind of nice to have the separation. The big ones help with the little ones. Ever since my eldest was old enough to babysit (by the time #3 was born), we had the freedom to get away whenever we wanted. Later on we had drivers to help with the littler ones too. They aren't as restrictive when you have a much older sibling.

Now, I'm sad because only one is left at home . It will be miserable for me to have no kids living at home since I've gotten used to having so much company.

And, CHRIS!, if #1 is perfect you can bet that #2 would be as well. It's funny how that works, especially since each one is different.

Good luck.

[Andrea V]

Nobody else can give you advice on such a decision.

If one wants a baby and one doesn't the default is no baby until you can bring Dad around.

The only thing the rest of us can offer is our own perspective of family and kids. I had two children when I was pretty young. I really didn't want to have more since I figured I gave up my young adulthood to take care of kids. There are 13 years between #1 and #4, so now I will also be an older adult with kids.

But, it really works out kind of nice to have the separation. The big ones help with the little ones. Ever since my eldest was old enough to babysit (by the time #3 was born), we had the freedom to get away whenever we wanted. Later on we had drivers to help with the littler ones too. They aren't as restrictive when you have a much older sibling.

Now, I'm sad because only one is left at home . It will be miserable for me to have no kids living at home since I've gotten used to having so much company.

And, CHRIS!, if #1 is perfect you can bet that #2 would be as well. It's funny how that works, especially since each one is different.

Good luck.

I know for a fact he is a GREAT daddy! And kid 1 is perfect. so I agree... kid 2 will be too.

One reason I want a kid because we don't have a big family. We have a SMALL family. And kid 1's family will only get smaller as time goes by.

Tawny said something to me that really hit home.... paraphrased- I had a 2nd kid (even with home problems) because I wanted them to have each other, if nothing else in life they have each other.

I want it for me, I want it for chris and I want it for kid 1. I want more family. I want more family that is mine (well my blood) and I want to share it with chris.

I promise we will not miss out on the FUN stuff that we would/will do when we get older as a couple.



PS chris... I don't remember you EVER wanting to have a 2nd one and *I* did not. I would have had one a long time ago if you wanted one. I never would have taken that away from you! That is a big thing to give to someone you love, and I never would have said no. Questioned it maybe, but I never would have said no.

[supermom]

When have you ever met a baby that had any dignity? I think I like 'em better without it anyways.

I haven't ever met any.

Let's see. As soon as they are born-they get smacked, poked, prodded, their eyes swabbed and their tongue wiped. Then they are ruthlessly bundled up inside a course piece of plastic and rubber onto very fine new skin and then swaddled tightly into a machine knitted flame retardant polyester blanket that reeks of hospital disinfectant and plastic.

After that-they are routinely taken in and out of their nice bed warmers that are bright enough to make a blind man see and they are poked and prodded more.

Add humiliation to this for the well meaning nurses who insist on leaving bare bottomed baby sitting cold while momies and daddies get first time lessons on wiping bottoms.

It and thing for a title has no comparison in the dignity levels, here!!

[Andrea V]

So have the kid. You have already listed 2 qualifications that most american households can't offer these days!

I agree!! He is an awesome daddy.... I can't think of another man in the whole world I would want as my "Baby-Daddy"

He has done an excellent job on the one we have now, and I can't imagine it being an less awesome. We both were not perfect parents, but we did just fine considering we knew NO one else who had kids, and the next youngest kid on both sides of our family was 21.

Chris just being who he is will be enough to be a good daddy to #2. And I think having another would be good for him.

Having someone else (in addition to what he has now) love chris unconditionally for ever will be good for him.

[TawnyK]

I must be PMS...or going insane, this thread makes me get all misty eyed. *sniff sniff*

[LifeSource]

I know for a fact he is a GREAT daddy! And kid 1 is perfect. so I agree... kid 2 will be too.

One reason I want a kid because we don't have a big family. We have a SMALL family. And kid 1's family will only get smaller as time goes by.

Tawny said something to me that really hit home.... paraphrased- I had a 2nd kid (even with home problems) because I wanted them to have each other, if nothing else in life they have each other.

I want it for me, I want it for chris and I want it for kid 1. I want more family. I want more family that is mine (well my blood) and I want to share it with chris.

I promise we will not miss out on the FUN stuff that we would/will do when we get older as a couple.
PS chris... I don't remember you EVER wanting to have a 2nd one and *I* did not. I would have had one a long time ago if you wanted one. I never would have taken that away from you! That is a big thing to give to someone you love, and I never would have said no. Questioned it maybe, but I never would have said no.

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this as there are obviously lots of parents on this forum, and your kids would be a lot farther apart in age than mine so this might not apply, but as any other parent will tell you, having two kids isn't TWICE as hard as having one.....it's TEN TIMES as hard.

Again, since your kids' age spread will be at least nine years when number two is born, it will be different from those of us who had our kids closer together, but you shouldn't make promises you might not be able to keep. While it is definitely a great thing having more than one child to share with each other and for them to share amongst each other, it will for sure create an additional element to the whole family dynamic that you may or may not be prepared for.

[wrabbit]

Leave it to me to throw a bomb into this "Family Unity" thing.

I was one of two children in my family. I was seven when my little brother was born. We are NOT alike and now, do not even speak to each other. It's been fifteen years since I've seen him or spoken to him. My wife's family is my family, because my folks are dead. I call my wife's sister, "my little sister" because she is like a sister to me. Her brother is like my brother. Her folks are like my own.

My point? DO NOT think you know how your children will behave before they are born. My daughters never did play together and preferred to play with other kids on the block and friends from school. They ARE NOT alike and don't like to hang out together. Further.....

I was too old to really like my little brother coming along and having to take a back seat to all the attention he got and the things he needed. I was used to being the only child and used to things the way they were.
We didn't play together because I got impatient with him being so much younger than me. I wanted to play with kids my own age, but often had to drag him along, because he wanted to go. It didn't help when he turned out being so irresponsible and worthless. He broke my parents hearts and used drugs, got thrown in jail and started beating his wife....I swear, I almost beat the crap out of him myself, once. Then I decided life was too short for me to always be hauling his arse out of trouble, which he always seemed to be in. It got to the point of him keeping me from focusing on my education and my own happiness. No amount of counseling or rehab seemed to help.....so I disowned him. I had my own life to lead and couldn't as long as he was in it.

I've read all the posts here, and although it's just my opinion, I think Andrea should honor her decision she made with her husband. It comes down to this...what is more important here....Andrea having what she wants or her PROMISE to her husband?

If my wife pulled this on me I would have to stand back and ask myself if this woman was who I wanted to spend this rest of my life with. I mean, how often is she going to change her mind? If she is not going to honor a decision we have made, will she not want to honor others? Will we have this issue come up again later? You see, when one spouse is not wanting to honor what they have agreed to, they place a question of TRUST into the relationship. The minute Andrea brought this up, and her husband stated his feelings against this, it should have stopped right there. WHY? Because it had been decided long ago and should now be a dead issue.

Really Andrea, if you love your husband and the two of you have a good thing going, you are seriously messing it up now. AND, he is making some very serious and good points about why this should not happen.
Which you will probably see, after your desire to give birth again, has passed.

You say your child now is nine, so if you have another, add about twenty more years to your child rearing life....and think about how old you will be before you are able to have your own life back. When do you want to retire? Better push that back, because with another child, you will be working longer, than you would be if no more children came along. Want your child to go to college? Then double that cost, or better yet, better triple that cost, because the price of college could triple in the next eighteen years.

Also, consider what brought this issue into play again. Is this an emotionally based feeling? Sure it is....Jolene just had a baby! Is there a possibility that you, Andrea, are being too emotional here and just wanting to play with a baby again? Babies aren't babies very long, you know.

It seems most people push dolls into the hands of little girls the minute they can hold something. I bought cars and trucks for my daughters as well as dolls and let them choose what they wanted to play with. I didn't want to program my daughters, in those very impressionable years, that they should only want to play with dolls, because what does that tell them? Yeah! You should want to be a Mommy when they grow up!
I want my daughters to view having children WITHOUT all that programming, and my wife agreed.

If it were me, I wouldn't have many more, even though there though you have only one child now. I think you both decided not too, years ago. To bring this up again now, is not really being fair to your prior commitment with your husband.

My advice is for Andrea to be an honorable person, and not pursue this any longer, because I'm sure it has placed a strain on the relationship and given her husband some doubts about his future with her.

A smart woman, would drop it and embrace what she already has......if that is in doubt, go out and talk to the single Moms and ask them how happy they are. Good men are very, very hard to find.

[TawnyK]

To Chris- if this is about if *you* can handle another child or not, you should have a little more faith in yourself and your parenting skills. If I were to list the top 5 men in my life that I think are above and beyond great Fathers, YOU would take up the first 3 places. Not many men have what you have inside of them and you're a natural. If it's about if you're gonna be an ok dad to two kids, I know the answer. You'll be a PHENOMENAL dad period because you already are one.

To Andrea- It's not an *it* you're asking for. Everyone knows that now, but what they don't know id that you've been struggling with this topic for quite sometime now. You aren't just asking Christ to give you another child, you're asking him to give you a piece of your own heart. Because that's what a child is, it's a piece of your heart that will forever walk on the outside of your body. It's a piece of Chris's heart too. Letting your heart outside of your chest makes you vulnerable.

To you both and everyone else-
My sisters remember things about our childhood that I forgot. When I went through my divorced my sisters helped me move. When I need help and I am afraid to ask for it, I ask my sister. My *little* sister. And she asks me. My youngest sister who is 12 years younger asks me questions she is afraid to ask our parents. We all do Christmas and Easter morning together every year because our mother can't handle holidays. My sisters are there at every turning point of my life to be my cheer leaders, my voice of reason, my honest opinion and my backbone when I have none.
I am a HUGE advocate for siblings because MINE mean the world to me. That's my slant, I can't be unbiased. When my parents die, my sisters will help me plan their funerals and consolidate their estates. If I die my sisters will be surrogate grandmas to my children's children.

In my personal experience in life there is no greater bond than the bond of siblings. I am thankful to god and my parents everyday for the siblings that I have.

[EDF]

Another one of my points!!!!
The first "thing" came when we were young. We never got to do any exploring. I literally went from high school to "thing". Our current "thing" is almost 9. This thing will need less care in less than 10 years. Then Andrea and I can do whatever we want whenever we want.

Yea... I felt the same way you do here... I was always thinking in the back of my mind... dang... I wish these boys would hurry up and grow up so my ex and I could "date" more...

but well.. now that we are no longer a "couple"... I still have both of my boys... and I never looked back.. you won't either.. the extra cost isn't that big... because you will get so much more in return...

I'd do it again.. and probably knowing what I know now... would have had more...

I came from a family of 5 brats and my ex was one of 6...

but we only had 2...

[TawnyK]

Yea... I felt the same way you do here... I was always thinking in the back of my mind... dang... I wish these boys would hurry up and grow up so my ex and I could "date" more...

but well.. now that we are no longer a "couple"... I still have both of my boys... and I never looked back.. you won't either.. the extra cost isn't that big... because you will get so much more in return...

I'd do it again.. and probably knowing what I know now... would have had more...

I came from a family of 5 brats and my ex was one of 6...

but we only had 2...

And no matter what, EDF, your boys have each other.

[chris v]

Through a lot of thought lately, I have also realized that I don't think I am that great of a father to # 1. Apparently, people who know me think I am. But I still don't feel that way. I also don't feel like I'm that good of a husband, but people tell me otherwise. I'm not really for it or against it. I say I don't really want it, but I don't know if thats true. I do know that I am not willing to give up the free time I have with my son. When we are together, we click. He is my mini clone, it is very creepy. At this point in his life I love being able to take him out on the weekend and ride dirtbikes all day, and he loves it just as much as I do. I like being able to play soccer and baseball with him whenever I want. A baby would definately get in the way of this, or would it?

[Andrea V]

hun, you would never have to give up what you have with kid#1 you will always go dirt bike riding, and he will always be your clone....

and when he gets older, you will still take him to your Topz meetings like you planned. (assuming he wants to)

All of the stuff you do and want to do with kid #1 you still will.

I am not sure why you think your relationship with kid#1 will change, or maybe I read it all wrong?????

[TawnyK]

I felt the same way about my child number one. I agonized over if I should have a second. My first child is so dear to me, I see so much of myself in him. I thought it would be impossible for me to love child #2 as much as I love child #1. I thought it would hurt child #1 to have to share me with child #2.

In the end it hasn't changed much. My 2 kids are far enough apart in age that the things I do with #1 are things that only #1 can do. The things I do with #2 are things #1 could care less about so #1 never feels left out and sometimes #1 likes to join in because it gives him a chance to regress a little "for his brother" and thus remain "cool". The age gap works in my favor here.

Ask my #1 sometime. Ask him what it was like before his brother came along and if he likes having a brother. I don't know what he'll tell you but it might be worth getting his opinion. You know my #1 will be honest with you either way.

This is such a tough topic because I'm friends with Andrea and I know for over a year now she's been open with me about how much she wants this, I think she has wanted it for a really long time because I remember back when Andrea and I were brand new moms I asked her if she wanted more and she said wayyyyyyy back then "Not anytime soon". And we had both agreed and laughed. We were both super young and overwhelmed with our little squirmy bundles of joy so back then a second child seemed sooo far away. My point is, I wasn't there when she made this promise of no more kids, but I know that she's always had room in her heart and in her future for a second child. Even when her first child was an infant.

I'm also VERY sensitive to Chris's side of this case because I, personally do not want more any more children for my own family. However, if Dustin wanted one we'd talk the hell out of the topic, get outside opinions consult our close family and friends, and if he STILL believed he needed a baby to feel his life was full- I'd do it and then get my tubes tied. End of story. *I* would do this because I know myself well enough to know that once I laid eyes on our baby I would fall in love with it and probably wonder how we ever survived without it....but that's just me. But, in all reality I can't say enough how much I DON'T want another child.

[StephanieW]

Since being the only child for a long time, that wasn't how I felt at all. But I do think I developed faster because I had the full attention of the family and they would read to me and stuff. I was top of my class in high school and college and now my brothers have to deal with the pressure of being second best. If anything, I was more pressured to succeed later in life knowing my younger brothers may not.

I just think different kinds of families bring different kinds of issues, and people learn to handle the cards they've been dealt.

I was an only child for so long as well and i was WAY more creative then my friends with siblings... i was able to play tea party with my little stuffed animals... school with my bears etc.. my kids have had each other to play with for so long.. if one isnt home the other just dosent know what to do! they are constanly "bored' ...

[Andrea V]

I was an only child for so long as well and i was WAY more creative then my friends with siblings... i was able to play tea party with my little stuffed animals... school with my bears etc.. my kids have had each other to play with for so long.. if one isnt home the other just dosent know what to do! they are constanly "bored' ...

I feel that a lot with our son, he has no one to play with unless he goes to someone else's house or unless he plays with an adult.

Having a bro or sis to play with would be so good for him. Even with an age gap, there are a lot of things he will miss out on with out a sibling.