328 replies to this topic

[Robert Gary]

What city code and what state law says the city owns my refuse?

FMC 8.32.210Scavenging of recyclable materials.

No person shall remove recyclable materials from residential containers or commercial dumpsters that are designated for city collection. Such material includes, but is not limited to: newspapers, magazines, yard trimmings, wood waste, books, glass bottles, cardboard, plastic bottles, aluminum and steel cans. (Ord. 1049 § 2 (part), 2006

FMC 8.32.280Penalties.
...
C.Violations of Section 8.32.090(B), ©, and (D); 8.32.190, and 8.32.210 shall be a misdemeanor, which shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.



California Penal Code....
SECTION 484-502.9
484. (a) Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry,
lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.
-Robert

[Bill Z]

FMC 8.32.210Scavenging of recyclable materials.

No person shall remove recyclable materials from residential containers or commercial dumpsters that are designated for city collection. Such material includes, but is not limited to: newspapers, magazines, yard trimmings, wood waste, books, glass bottles, cardboard, plastic bottles, aluminum and steel cans. (Ord. 1049 § 2 (part), 2006

FMC 8.32.280Penalties.
...
C.Violations of Section 8.32.090(B), ©, and (D); 8.32.190, and 8.32.210 shall be a misdemeanor, which shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.


-Robert

Nice find, I knew it was in there somewhere.

And for those that think this is a crazy law on the books, lest I remind you the city (that's us in the long run BTW), will get fined if we don't reduce our household waste by a given percentage. When recyclables are stolen that reduces the mass of the recycleables the city gets to weigh against the trash that gets weighed going to the dump.

This law is to help the city meet the required goals of reducing our landfill waste.

[jafount]

The fact that irish1 agrees with us should be all you need to know.

And the fact that there was 6 months of investigation, ending with an arrest, is pretty telling.

I like those "facts".

Was there an arrest?

[MikeinFolsom]

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone thinks we should hold cops to a higher standard. How about firefighters? Doctors? Garbage men? Librarians? Why don't we all hold EACH OTHER to a higher standard, and we wouldn't have all the problems we currently have. Why does it make it okay for a person not in law enforcement behave differently than one who is?

Laws are created by society to prevent or punish knuckleheads for doing obviously stupid $%#&! Just because of your profession, I don't think that sets your status on accountability. How about being a human being??? Why shouldn't that be the bar?

[mylo]

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone thinks we should hold cops to a higher standard. How about firefighters? Doctors? Garbage men? Librarians? Why don't we all hold EACH OTHER to a higher standard, and we wouldn't have all the problems we currently have. Why does it make it okay for a person not in law enforcement behave differently than one who is?

Laws are created by society to prevent or punish knuckleheads for doing obviously stupid $%#&! Just because of your profession, I don't think that sets your status on accountability. How about being a human being??? Why shouldn't that be the bar?

Because police officers take an oath to uphold the law.

We hold doctors and nurses to higher medical practices (or mal-practices) because they took an oath. My wife, even as an EMT, was held to a higher care standard than any other citizen. If I screwed up trying to save someone, I get good samaritan points where she can be held liable.

I don't think it's wrong to hold officers and judges to higher legal standards at all.

Granted, that doesn't forgive anyone for breaking the law, but as a sworn officer I think this is certainly news-worthy.

[mylo]

Was there an arrest?

Yes, he turned himself in Sep 30th and was released the same day pending his court date October 17th

[mylo]

FMC 8.32.210Scavenging of recyclable materials.

No person shall remove recyclable materials from residential containers or commercial dumpsters that are designated for city collection. Such material includes, but is not limited to: newspapers, magazines, yard trimmings, wood waste, books, glass bottles, cardboard, plastic bottles, aluminum and steel cans. (Ord. 1049 § 2 (part), 2006

FMC 8.32.280Penalties.
...
C.Violations of Section 8.32.090(B), ©, and (D); 8.32.190, and 8.32.210 shall be a misdemeanor, which shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

California Penal Code....
SECTION 484-502.9
484. (a) Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry,
lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.
-Robert

Landahl was arrested on California Vehicle Code violations:

CVC 2470. It is unlawful for any person to engage in the transportation of inedible kitchen grease without being registered with the Department of Food and Agriculture and without being in possession of a valid registration certificate issued by that department.

CVC 2474. It is unlawful for any person to steal, misappropriate, contaminate, or damage inedible kitchen grease, or containers thereof.

[jafount]

FMC 8.32.210Scavenging of recyclable materials.

No person shall remove recyclable materials from residential containers or commercial dumpsters that are designated for city collection. Such material includes, but is not limited to: newspapers, magazines, yard trimmings, wood waste, books, glass bottles, cardboard, plastic bottles, aluminum and steel cans. (Ord. 1049 § 2 (part), 2006

FMC 8.32.280Penalties.
...
C.Violations of Section 8.32.090(B), ©, and (D); 8.32.190, and 8.32.210 shall be a misdemeanor, which shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.


-Robert

Comedy. So by the way the section is written, you cannot allow your kids to go back through and collect the bottles you already placed in your container...nor could you, yourself reach in to collect them, even if errantly placed.

I'd LOVE to challenge that in open court. The moron city law makers forgot to set exception rules.

BTW ALL local ordinances are misdemeanors.

I don't recall any news report that they were conviected. The news report is that they were arrested. Arrests are public record.
I hope a court takes notice that these guys accused of this small crime will likey be called into court to testify against others accused of small crimes as law enforcement officals. I would love to be that defense attorney.

"Now officer Jones, you said you saw my client steal a dress at Wal-Mart. Isn't it true that you yourself were arrested for stealing this year as well? Would you like this jury to believe that one thief is a better witness than another?" HEHEHE. That would be great!!!

-Robert

From the article:

Four Folsom police officers have been placed on paid administrative leave, including a sergeant who is accused of stealing cooking oil, officials said Wednesday.

The actions have come as a result of four separate internal affairs investigations.

Where are you people getting "arrest" from this?

"Arrest" is the lawful taking of a person into physical custody by depriving them of their liberty.

That did not happen here.

What I really don't understand is the simple-minded contingent on this site that gets their rocks off over things like this. Seriously, your own moral compass is so fouled it's sad.

This is a case of "letter of the law" versus "spirit of the law". Taking used cooking grease from a dumpster is hardly egregious and barely a crime yet a few people here are creaming their pants over the opportunity to see another person fall over nothing. It's NOT analogous to the taking of a candy bar, or a dress at wal mart. To say differently is completely flawed thinking.

Thankfully, this community has a strong contingent of perfect people who are poised and ready to cast stones at others. Gosh it must be nice to be better than everyone else.

[mylo]

Where are you people getting "arrest" from this?

"Arrest" is the lawful taking of a person into physical custody by depriving them of their liberty.

That did not happen here.

From: http://www.sacbee.co...at_arrests.html

Landahl was arrested by Folsom police on Sept. 30 and released with order to appear in court on a misdemeanor charge of violating California Vehicle Code Sections 2474 and 2470 involving the theft and transportation of inedible cooking grease.

[Bill Z]

Comedy. So by the way the section is written, you cannot allow your kids to go back through and collect the bottles you already placed in your container...nor could you, yourself reach in to collect them, even if errantly placed.

I'd LOVE to challenge that in open court. The moron city law makers forgot to set exception rules.

Well, as long as you are dipster diving in your own backyard, they can't catch you, but once it has been wheeled to the street, at that point, you have designated it city property.

[mylo]

This is a case of "letter of the law" versus "spirit of the law". Taking used cooking grease from a dumpster is hardly egregious and barely a crime yet a few people here are creaming their pants over the opportunity to see another person fall over nothing. It's NOT analogous to the taking of a candy bar, or a dress at wal mart. To say differently is completely flawed thinking.

Why is it not analogous? A candy bar is $1, grease recycling is big business. In this case he is accused of stealing $350 worth of product. The Sacramento Rendering Company had a direct financial loss because of this, analagous to Wal-Mart's loss if you stole a dress. I'm not saying I want to see this guy go down, at all. I have the upmost respect for Folsom police. I still assume it's just a misunderstanding and he thought he was permitted to have it (although he's still not licensed to transport it under CVC 2470).

[jafount]

Why is it not analogous? A candy bar is $1, grease recycling is big business. In this case he is accused of stealing $350 worth of product. The Sacramento Rendering Company had a direct financial loss because of this, just as Wal-Mart would have lost if you took a dress. I'm not saying I want to see this guy go down, I still hope it's just a misunderstanding and he thought he was permitted (although he's still not licensed to transport it under CVC 2470).

Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. This is a witch hunt.

An article written by a reporter who doesn't know the difference between an arrest and a self-surrender to answer isn't convincing. Media outlets get things wrong all the time, they just never get called for them.

I'd be interested in seeing how much "product" was taken. Who is the contract with? Is it paid based on product volume or paid based on a flat rate? if it's flate-rate based, where is the financial loss? Nothing I've read so far indicates the loss amount was based on product volume loss.

[mylo]

Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. This is a witch hunt.

An article written by a reporter who doesn't know the difference between an arrest and a self-surrender to answer isn't convincing. Media outlets get things wrong all the time, they just never get called for them.

I'd be interested in seeing how much "product" was taken. Who is the contract with? Is it paid based on product volume or paid based on a flat rate? if it's flate-rate based, where is the financial loss? Nothing I've read so far indicates the loss amount was based on product volume loss.

The spirit of the law is to define cooking grease as a comodity and a valuable asset that can be stolen/damaged/misappropriate/contaminated, and that even the containers themselves have value.

The Sacramento Rendering company is a business based entirely upon the value of these commodities. This person financially impacted their business with his actions to the tune of $350. The SacBee didn't make up that value, Folsom PD wrote it down based on a report from the 'victim'. I'm sure the courts will decide what the true value was, but I doubt Sac Rendering made it up and pursued arrest just to screw the guy.

What do you think this law is for if not for protecting their business?

Also, some argue/conjecture that the value of this theft was deliberately deflated to < $400 to keep it from being a felony.

p.s. I personally believe CVC 2470 is an oil company lobby effort to keep down production of bio-diesel, but that doesn't change the fact that the law exists and Landahl broke it. If I had grease in my car and got pulled over, I would be hit by this just the same.

[Robert Gary]

Was there an arrest?

There has to be for a criminal charge. The word "arrest" is often misunderstood by the public. It does not necessarily mean you are put in fail or detained. However, you *must* first be arrested before you can be charged with a crime (just the way the law works).

-Robert

[Robert Gary]

Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. This is a witch hunt.

An article written by a reporter who doesn't know the difference between an arrest and a self-surrender to answer isn't convincing.

I suspect that you don't know the defintion of arrest. They were arrested.

-Robert